Super Tight Bolt on Savage 16

Wendyj · June 6, 2016, 06:08 PM

I've got a Savage model 16 in 300 wsm with muzzle rake so I can handle it. Older weather warrior without the accu trigger. Bolt won't throw a spent case out. I took it to a smith and he tightened up the screw in the back of the bolt and it worked for one range session. My biggest issue is my full length resized brass set back .002 is super tight just closing on a brass case. No projectile or primer. They are trimmed to spec and loaded or empty case bolt is way too tight to close. This started after having the bolt repaired. Do I need someone to check with go no go guage. It's shooting great but I don't trust this and I've looked for signs of damage to brass after firing and see no issues. It's doing the same thing with empty brass or loaded round. Anyone got a clue of what's causing this. It's sticky going in and sticky pulling out. They have all been fired only in this rifle. Norma and Winchester brass. All the same issue.

gwpercle · June 7, 2016, 06:30 PM

All of this started after having the bolt " repaired ". Please tell us about the bolt repairs , possibly the bolt repairer did more harm than good. Who did the work and what exactly did he do ?
And now the rest of the story .

Wendyj · June 7, 2016, 06:47 PM

I sent it to the smith . He called me an hour later and said he noticed the bolt had a lot of play and felt sloppy so he knew right off why it wouldn't extract. I loaded 3 dummy rounds to go with the rifle. He said all he had to do was tighten a screw that holds the throw lever on. Saturday was the first time I took it to the range since he repaired. I noticed when loading ammo at bench it didn't feel like it was seating very easy but closing the bolt was way too snug. I did zero in a new scope I had put on it and it ejected the first few rounds and went back to just like it was. Will pulled back but won't throw it out. I checked the brass for primer issues. None. Checked fired necks to see if being flattened and nothing I could visually see. It had always cycled ammo in with no issues. Bullets are seated less than blind box mag length. Resized brass at home Norma and Winchester. All I can do to think something isn't going to break just cycling empty cases. Using compareter I know they are set back .002 from fired case. Everything is clean. Hoppes and break free. A little ballistol for storing but ran bore snake through before firing. I'm clueless. Maybe I need a better gun smith but this one is closest to me that works on Savage.

olddav · June 8, 2016, 09:36 AM

On a Savage rifle that presents a hard closing bolt, the first thing to check is the front action screw. As time goes by the stock will compress and the action screw will extend thru the action and rub on the bolt lug. An easy test is to just back off the front screw and see if bolt closes easier.

overthere · June 8, 2016, 11:18 AM

Oldday has a good suggestion. If that is not the culprit, chances are your smith inadvertently changed the position of your boltface when he put it back together. As in your boltface is now a few thousands further forward compared to where it used to be. Not sure how he would manage that but from your description of it being hard to close the bolt on brass you bumped .002 it sounds like this could be the issue.

To verify, take a single piece of fired brass and bump it back .004. Is it still hard to close the bolt? If so, set back .006, is it still hard to close the bolt. If you are able to close the bolt easily then the location of your boltface was changed by your smith. If .006 does not do it, it must be something else.

Dufus · June 8, 2016, 12:21 PM

IME, the WSM family of cartridges is fairly quirky about resizing the brass. They have to be fully full length resized. This means that you have to set the press to cam over at the top of the stroke and even this is not sufficient sometimes.

A lot of the WSM'ers that I know, plus my self, have taken a shell holder and grind 0.002" off the top to allow more travel before contacting the die. Use a really good caliber or micrometer to gauge the cut on the shell holder.

Forget about any shoulder setback and just full length resize the cases.

This will solve a lot of your problems.

Wendyj · June 8, 2016, 04:54 PM

Thanks all. I will set the shoulders back some more and try it.

qrz · June 8, 2016, 05:53 PM

How does the old and new fired cases compare using a comparator before resized?
Would be curious if there is a pressure change, then your favorite load may have changed as well. I have a few Savages and they are loose enough to slide until the bolt is rolled over, then they are tight. You'd think if your bolt was loose and sloppy, then you'd have pressure evidence w/ the escaping gas.

Wendyj · June 9, 2016, 12:57 PM

I think I'm going to get rid of this one and get the husband a Tikka T3 lite in 300 wsm instead. This one is too heavy anyway and has been nothing but trouble. I think the Tikka will be OK

hoghunting · June 10, 2016, 04:51 PM

I have the T3 Lite in 300 WSM and it is my "go to" rifle. Extremely accurate and reliable. Highly recommend changing the recoil pad with a prefit Kick-Eez or Limbsaver pad.

Jimro · June 11, 2016, 08:02 AM

Is it possible the rear action screw is over tight making the final bolt handle turn down more difficult than it needs to be?

Jimro

RC20 · June 12, 2016, 11:34 AM

.002 is awfully narrow shoulder setup.

I know its agreed that is enough, I find enough variation in brass I go with .004 to get it to work out.

Description indicates that is the issue, why it changed is? Loose bolt might have allowed it before.

Frankly for hunting I would set it full back as you don't want any feed issues cropping up where as with target shooting its not a problem if something does.

I had had issues with the Savage gumming up the chamber, first step was to ensure chamber was clean (was not) and fine now.

I have yet to get a 1/4 inch group on a game animal!

F. Guffey · June 12, 2016, 12:22 PM

Quote:

.002 is awfully narrow shoulder setup.

I know its agreed that is enough, I find enough variation in brass I go with .004 to get it to work out.

The bolt can have a problem closing on a case that is too long from the shoulder to the case head. If the case is is belted it can have another problem, the case in front of the belt can be upset. I found 40 cases out of 240 belted magnum cases with case expansion in front of the belt. The cases had expanded to .016" beyond unfired cases. I never wonder how that stuff happens, I know those 40 cases had been hammered with excessively heavy loads. And then there is L. Willis. He sells a tool for...., well anyhow, I do not suggest purchasing the tool but there is a recurring thread that covers reloading forums like the wind.

If I had to size a case in front of the belt I would use a collet in a lathe. Problem, when I find the case upset in front of the belt I find the case will not fit a shell holder because the case head has expanded and the extractor groove has increased in diameter.

I have a case friendly hammer that I use when I need an assist when fitting the case to the shell holder.

F. Guffey

hoghunting · June 13, 2016, 01:07 PM

Quote:

If the case is is belted it can have another problem, the case in front of the belt can be upset

It's a 300 WSM, no belt.

5thShock · June 14, 2016, 10:06 AM

Have you tried it with factory ammo?

June 6, 2016, 06:08 PM	#1
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	Super Tight Bolt on Savage 16 I've got a Savage model 16 in 300 wsm with muzzle rake so I can handle it. Older weather warrior without the accu trigger. Bolt won't throw a spent case out. I took it to a smith and he tightened up the screw in the back of the bolt and it worked for one range session. My biggest issue is my full length resized brass set back .002 is super tight just closing on a brass case. No projectile or primer. They are trimmed to spec and loaded or empty case bolt is way too tight to close. This started after having the bolt repaired. Do I need someone to check with go no go guage. It's shooting great but I don't trust this and I've looked for signs of damage to brass after firing and see no issues. It's doing the same thing with empty brass or loaded round. Anyone got a clue of what's causing this. It's sticky going in and sticky pulling out. They have all been fired only in this rifle. Norma and Winchester brass. All the same issue. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

June 7, 2016, 06:47 PM	#3
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	I sent it to the smith . He called me an hour later and said he noticed the bolt had a lot of play and felt sloppy so he knew right off why it wouldn't extract. I loaded 3 dummy rounds to go with the rifle. He said all he had to do was tighten a screw that holds the throw lever on. Saturday was the first time I took it to the range since he repaired. I noticed when loading ammo at bench it didn't feel like it was seating very easy but closing the bolt was way too snug. I did zero in a new scope I had put on it and it ejected the first few rounds and went back to just like it was. Will pulled back but won't throw it out. I checked the brass for primer issues. None. Checked fired necks to see if being flattened and nothing I could visually see. It had always cycled ammo in with no issues. Bullets are seated less than blind box mag length. Resized brass at home Norma and Winchester. All I can do to think something isn't going to break just cycling empty cases. Using compareter I know they are set back .002 from fired case. Everything is clean. Hoppes and break free. A little ballistol for storing but ran bore snake through before firing. I'm clueless. Maybe I need a better gun smith but this one is closest to me that works on Savage. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

June 8, 2016, 09:36 AM	#4
olddav Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2008 Location: Lower Alabama Posts: 727	On a Savage rifle that presents a hard closing bolt, the first thing to check is the front action screw. As time goes by the stock will compress and the action screw will extend thru the action and rub on the bolt lug. An easy test is to just back off the front screw and see if bolt closes easier. __________________ Never beat your head against the wall with out a helmet

June 8, 2016, 04:54 PM	#7
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	Thanks all. I will set the shoulders back some more and try it. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

June 9, 2016, 12:57 PM	#9
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	I think I'm going to get rid of this one and get the husband a Tikka T3 lite in 300 wsm instead. This one is too heavy anyway and has been nothing but trouble. I think the Tikka will be OK __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

June 7, 2016, 06:30 PM	#2
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	All of this started after having the bolt " repaired ". Please tell us about the bolt repairs , possibly the bolt repairer did more harm than good. Who did the work and what exactly did he do ? And now the rest of the story .

June 8, 2016, 11:18 AM	#5
overthere Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2012 Posts: 290	Oldday has a good suggestion. If that is not the culprit, chances are your smith inadvertently changed the position of your boltface when he put it back together. As in your boltface is now a few thousands further forward compared to where it used to be. Not sure how he would manage that but from your description of it being hard to close the bolt on brass you bumped .002 it sounds like this could be the issue. To verify, take a single piece of fired brass and bump it back .004. Is it still hard to close the bolt? If so, set back .006, is it still hard to close the bolt. If you are able to close the bolt easily then the location of your boltface was changed by your smith. If .006 does not do it, it must be something else.

June 8, 2016, 12:21 PM	#6
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	IME, the WSM family of cartridges is fairly quirky about resizing the brass. They have to be fully full length resized. This means that you have to set the press to cam over at the top of the stroke and even this is not sufficient sometimes. A lot of the WSM'ers that I know, plus my self, have taken a shell holder and grind 0.002" off the top to allow more travel before contacting the die. Use a really good caliber or micrometer to gauge the cut on the shell holder. Forget about any shoulder setback and just full length resize the cases. This will solve a lot of your problems.

June 8, 2016, 05:53 PM	#8
qrz Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2016 Posts: 101	How does the old and new fired cases compare using a comparator before resized? Would be curious if there is a pressure change, then your favorite load may have changed as well. I have a few Savages and they are loose enough to slide until the bolt is rolled over, then they are tight. You'd think if your bolt was loose and sloppy, then you'd have pressure evidence w/ the escaping gas.

June 10, 2016, 04:51 PM	#10
hoghunting Senior Member Join Date: March 27, 2006 Posts: 1,559	I have the T3 Lite in 300 WSM and it is my "go to" rifle. Extremely accurate and reliable. Highly recommend changing the recoil pad with a prefit Kick-Eez or Limbsaver pad.

June 11, 2016, 08:02 AM	#11
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	Is it possible the rear action screw is over tight making the final bolt handle turn down more difficult than it needs to be? Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

June 12, 2016, 11:34 AM	#12
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	.002 is awfully narrow shoulder setup. I know its agreed that is enough, I find enough variation in brass I go with .004 to get it to work out. Description indicates that is the issue, why it changed is? Loose bolt might have allowed it before. Frankly for hunting I would set it full back as you don't want any feed issues cropping up where as with target shooting its not a problem if something does. I had had issues with the Savage gumming up the chamber, first step was to ensure chamber was clean (was not) and fine now. I have yet to get a 1/4 inch group on a game animal!

June 14, 2016, 10:06 AM	#15
5thShock Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2006 Posts: 400	Have you tried it with factory ammo?