Can anyone tell me how old this cap tin is?

Chowmif16 · September 10, 2012, 11:25 AM

I bought this tin of percussion caps several years ago. I figured it was probably slightly old, but not really old. Still has about 30 caps in it.
Can anyone help determine when it may have been produced?
Cheers,

Chowmif16 · September 10, 2012, 11:28 AM

And how do I get the picture to show up in the thread so nobody has to click on it?

pohill · September 10, 2012, 02:43 PM

Is it metal or cardboard?

Chowmif16 · September 10, 2012, 07:47 PM

It's metal.

Hawg · September 11, 2012, 05:57 AM

Looks like the ones I remember from the early 70's

Bishop Creek · September 11, 2012, 08:10 AM

The "UMC" on the label stands for Union Metallic Cartridge Co. and as I recall that name disapeared from the Remington labels around 1910 or so.

**Mike Irwin** · September 11, 2012, 09:01 AM

"The "UMC" on the label stands for Union Metallic Cartridge Co. and as I recall that name disapeared from the Remington labels around 1910 or so."

Sorry, but that is incorrect.

Remington and UMC became part of the same organization (under the umbrella of Marcus Hartley and Partners) in 1888.

Remington and UMC were consolidated as a single entity in 1912. Prior to that time Remington ammunition and UMC ammunition were produced in separate factories under their own brandnames.

After that, the UMC appeared, disappeared, appeared, disappeared, was used on some product lines but not others, etc., for decades. Often, even when the UMC logo wasn't prominently displayed on the box, cartridges would be headstamped REM-UMC.

It was used as an advertising mark, and remains in use to this day.

The TRUE way to tell the age of that tin?

One word...

DuPont.

DuPont purchased Remington in 1933.

The DuPont logo would not have appeared on any Remington products prior to that time.

My guess, your tin was made sometime between 1933/1934 and the start of World War II.

bedbugbilly · September 11, 2012, 12:06 PM

Is that label "painted" or paper?

I checked some of the Remington tins that I bought back in the early '60s - still have a couple that are full even. Those tins are painted white with the label painted on and the edges are more rounded.

I think Mike is right on with what his estimate on the date or close to it. It certainly pre-dates the ones I have from the 60s.

In the 60s, about all I could find in my area as far as percussion caps were Remingtons - at least in rifle caps. "Alcan" caps were about it for musket size caps although I do remember picking up some German Musket caps once in a while at a NSSA shoot - still have those cans as well which were plain tin with blue labels. There was an old gunsmith (in his late 80s) that taught me a lot about BP shooting and he carried caps and BP. If I remember right, a tin of Remington caps cost about 35 cents and a pound of DuPont was around 75 cents for FFG or FFFG. If I bought a couple of pounds of powder at a time, he'd sometimes throw in a tin of caps. In fact, I bought my first muzzle-loader from him - I saved my mowing money and Dad helped me out when he saw how much I wanted it and then I paid him back. It was a 1863 Remington "Zouave" - it cost $65.00 which seemed like a million at the time.

Hellgate · September 11, 2012, 12:48 PM

B Bug Billy,
Same story here on the Zouave as the first BP gun @ ~ $65-$70 + Shipping. I was in "love". In fact, I was daydreaming of it a lot and one night at the dinner table my dad suddenly asked, "Do you have a girlfriend?" I immediately denied any consortion with the opposite sex but the old man knew I was preoccupied with something. My thinking now is that he'd BTDT (girlfriends). BTW I've been happily married for 35 years. Still have the Zouave too.

**Mike Irwin** · September 11, 2012, 02:10 PM

It's painted. The wear on the edges shows wear through the paint.

Hawg · September 11, 2012, 02:13 PM

Yeah, its older than mine. This one is from from the early 70's.

Chowmif16 · September 11, 2012, 03:34 PM

Thanks for all the replies!
I bought it about 5-10 years ago at an antique shop. I think it was only about 10 bucks.
I had figured that it was 20th century, and thought it was probably from the latter half.
Unfortunately, I can't open it anymore... My dad was driving it up to me with a bunch of my other shooting stuff and thought that the caps might be damaged by shaking. So he stuffed some tissue paper in it, then put a piece of tissue paper over the bottom part of the tin and put the lid on. It's so tight that I can't remove the cover. i don't want to damage it by using pliers etc. on it.
Cheers,

**Mike Irwin** · September 11, 2012, 04:15 PM

Put it in the freezer for a couple of hours. It may shrink it enough that you can get it open.

Hawg · September 11, 2012, 04:22 PM

I think shrinking it is going to make it seal up tighter.

**Mike Irwin** · September 11, 2012, 04:55 PM

The thicker metal of the can bottom will shrink a bit more.

More importantly the thinner top will expand much faster from the heat of the hand, giving just a bit more room.

September 10, 2012, 11:28 AM	#2
Chowmif16 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2012 Location: Huntsville, Utah Posts: 106	And how do I get the picture to show up in the thread so nobody has to click on it? __________________ Chowmi

September 10, 2012, 07:47 PM	#4
Chowmif16 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2012 Location: Huntsville, Utah Posts: 106	It's metal. __________________ Chowmi

September 11, 2012, 09:01 AM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"The "UMC" on the label stands for Union Metallic Cartridge Co. and as I recall that name disapeared from the Remington labels around 1910 or so." Sorry, but that is incorrect. Remington and UMC became part of the same organization (under the umbrella of Marcus Hartley and Partners) in 1888. Remington and UMC were consolidated as a single entity in 1912. Prior to that time Remington ammunition and UMC ammunition were produced in separate factories under their own brandnames. After that, the UMC appeared, disappeared, appeared, disappeared, was used on some product lines but not others, etc., for decades. Often, even when the UMC logo wasn't prominently displayed on the box, cartridges would be headstamped REM-UMC. It was used as an advertising mark, and remains in use to this day. The TRUE way to tell the age of that tin? One word... DuPont. DuPont purchased Remington in 1933. The DuPont logo would not have appeared on any Remington products prior to that time. My guess, your tin was made sometime between 1933/1934 and the start of World War II. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower. Last edited by Mike Irwin; September 11, 2012 at 09:10 AM.

September 11, 2012, 12:06 PM	#8
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Is that label "painted" or paper? I checked some of the Remington tins that I bought back in the early '60s - still have a couple that are full even. Those tins are painted white with the label painted on and the edges are more rounded. I think Mike is right on with what his estimate on the date or close to it. It certainly pre-dates the ones I have from the 60s. In the 60s, about all I could find in my area as far as percussion caps were Remingtons - at least in rifle caps. "Alcan" caps were about it for musket size caps although I do remember picking up some German Musket caps once in a while at a NSSA shoot - still have those cans as well which were plain tin with blue labels. There was an old gunsmith (in his late 80s) that taught me a lot about BP shooting and he carried caps and BP. If I remember right, a tin of Remington caps cost about 35 cents and a pound of DuPont was around 75 cents for FFG or FFFG. If I bought a couple of pounds of powder at a time, he'd sometimes throw in a tin of caps. In fact, I bought my first muzzle-loader from him - I saved my mowing money and Dad helped me out when he saw how much I wanted it and then I paid him back. It was a 1863 Remington "Zouave" - it cost $65.00 which seemed like a million at the time. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

September 11, 2012, 12:48 PM	#9
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	B Bug Billy, Same story here on the Zouave as the first BP gun @ ~ $65-$70 + Shipping. I was in "love". In fact, I was daydreaming of it a lot and one night at the dinner table my dad suddenly asked, "Do you have a girlfriend?" I immediately denied any consortion with the opposite sex but the old man knew I was preoccupied with something. My thinking now is that he'd BTDT (girlfriends). BTW I've been happily married for 35 years. Still have the Zouave too. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

September 10, 2012, 02:43 PM	#3
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	Is it metal or cardboard?

September 11, 2012, 05:57 AM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Looks like the ones I remember from the early 70's

September 11, 2012, 08:10 AM	#6
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	The "UMC" on the label stands for Union Metallic Cartridge Co. and as I recall that name disapeared from the Remington labels around 1910 or so.

September 11, 2012, 02:10 PM	#10
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	It's painted. The wear on the edges shows wear through the paint. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

September 11, 2012, 02:13 PM	#11
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Yeah, its older than mine. This one is from from the early 70's.

September 11, 2012, 03:34 PM	#12
Chowmif16 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2012 Location: Huntsville, Utah Posts: 106	Thanks Thanks for all the replies! I bought it about 5-10 years ago at an antique shop. I think it was only about 10 bucks. I had figured that it was 20th century, and thought it was probably from the latter half. Unfortunately, I can't open it anymore... My dad was driving it up to me with a bunch of my other shooting stuff and thought that the caps might be damaged by shaking. So he stuffed some tissue paper in it, then put a piece of tissue paper over the bottom part of the tin and put the lid on. It's so tight that I can't remove the cover. i don't want to damage it by using pliers etc. on it. Cheers, __________________ Chowmi

September 11, 2012, 04:15 PM	#13
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Put it in the freezer for a couple of hours. It may shrink it enough that you can get it open. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

September 11, 2012, 04:22 PM	#14
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	I think shrinking it is going to make it seal up tighter.

September 11, 2012, 04:55 PM	#15
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	The thicker metal of the can bottom will shrink a bit more. More importantly the thinner top will expand much faster from the heat of the hand, giving just a bit more room. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.