want to purchase my 1st BP--brass or steel

shoebox1.1 · December 24, 2006, 11:31 PM

hello gentlemen.. ive had this bug lately to purchase a 1851 navy. somthing about it has always sparked my interest and im ready to buy. i like to do as much research as i can before i buy so i dont do somthing stupid. --- ive got 2 friends of mine that are gunsmiths/life long gunnuts and both have said (with a lil hesitation in their voice) dont get the brass........ go with the steel -----remington at that! well i dont want a remington (yet)! lol like most folks nowadays cost is a factor.. i would love to have a decked out uberti but thats not going to happen anytime soon! im thinking about the good ol cabelas/bass pro mail order for the pistol and then sourcing all the lil fun stuff local. i want to have a nice leather doctor style bag to carry all this stuff around in!

dangerous stuff separate of course! so back to the question... palmetto/pietta/traditions-ardesa??? and/or brass or steel?? I WOULD PERFER STEEL JUST FOR LOOKS but it isnt a deal breaker. im very nastalgic....... which were more made? grunts had the brass and the "brass" had the steel? lol which gun should be avoided... palmetto? thanks in advance and may your charged bores stay separated! gus

Hafoc · December 24, 2006, 11:55 PM

I don't know much about the different brands. I've had Uberti percussion revolvers and now I have Uberti "Schofield" cartridge revolvers. They've all worked just fine out of the box. From personal experience I can't talk about the other brands. I've never owned any of them. (This isn't a decision on my part, it just turned out that way.)

Anyone is free to correct me if I'm wrong, but the general impression I get is that Pietta used to be below Uberti in quality, but worked, and has come up in the world lately. Also that Euroarms is OK but not found as often as the other two. I've read exactly one reference to Palmetto and that was negative. I don't think one reference, good or negative, is enough to be sure.

The original 1851 Navy revolvers were all steel-framed (or I think more likely iron). If you're concerned about authenticity, then, you'd want steel. They were .36 caliber, too. You will find them with brass frames and in .44 caliber. Neither of these is exactly authentic.

I say "exactly authentic" because there were period-correct revolvers made with brass frames, especially by the Confederates. Why, I don't know. I can only suppose brass was easier to produce than iron.

The Griswold and Gunnison, for example, was a brass-framed copy of the Colt 1851 Navy. It was a .36 caliber too. Its barrel was round, while the Navy's is octagonal. There was also a brass-framed Remington look-alike, Spiller and Burr I think. It wasn't a copy of the Remington, rather it was a copy of some other solid-framed Northern revolver, I forget which. But in general configuration it looked sort of like a Remington.

The Confederates never were able to produce many of any class of arms. If you're talking Colt's iron-framed 1851s vs. their Confederate brass-framed copies, I believe the Colts were produced in the hundreds of thousands and the Griswold and Gunnison something like three thousand.

Practically speaking, I would expect a modern brass-framed revolver to shoot loose LONG before a modern steel-framed one would. If the lower price of the brass-framed versions is important to you, you'd have to ask yourself whether you were going to shoot the thing enough to have to worry about wearing it out.

On the other hand-- looks to me like the steel-framed 1851s are about the least expensive steel-framed replica going. It was perhaps THE classic percussion revolver of that era, and it's quite a bargain today.

shoebox1.1 · December 25, 2006, 12:46 AM

thanks for the response and merry xmas.... i was thinking along those lines as far as the production numbers and who did what... i like the brass frame guns they look nice and are affordable. we are talking about 2 different metals.... one is known to be "softer" than the other. in a "streching" sense the steel wins. i havent shot or loaded a gun like this yet so i cant comment on number of rounds that would get fired. i have a sneaky feeling im going to like it very much and really get into it! the slow pace and attn to details sounds very relaxing. i used to race slot cars competively and when you are at the slot car track "in the zone" you forget about all your problems..... im not racing anymore and need somthing fun and relaxing. like i said before im very nostalgic so much so that i think i outta go steel .36 cal just so can say this is how it used to be..... so if i go steel .36 colt 1851 which one and how much?? thanks

marcseatac · December 25, 2006, 01:05 AM

If I were you, I would get the 1851 steel .44 cal Pietta.

1 For the price
2 Because it's a .44, if you only have one it should be a .44
3 Steel cause it's durable

And their on sale for $209 at Cabelas. This represents the best value.

shoebox1.1 · December 25, 2006, 01:33 AM

that sounds good!!! 209? hummm i was online tonite and i dont remember seeing that.. thats the kind of budget i was hoping to stay on. tonite is my 1st time lurking around BP forums and from what i can see the community is full of my kind of people... very helpful thanks again gus

shoebox1.1 · December 25, 2006, 01:37 AM

i did see that but i dont believe it says pietta....

marcseatac · December 25, 2006, 01:38 AM

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...ainCatcat20712

marcseatac · December 25, 2006, 01:42 AM

The one with the silver backstrap, most the Cabelas guns are Pietta except the Walker. If I only wanted to keep one, it would have to be a .44, the .36 is on sale for $169, but the .44 is just so much fun!

Don't get me wrong the .36 is great too, but to me it's more of a second gun.

Welcome to the board and Merry Christmas!

Steve499 · December 25, 2006, 10:37 AM

I've heard several negative Palmetto reviews and zero positive ones. I personally decided to take a chance and buy one since that particular model was on special at Dixie Gun Works. It was a .31 pocket Colt listed by Dixie as the "Hartford" pocket model. Well, it arrived and was a disaster. I wrote a bad review on it which Dixie still had up the last time I checked. I have heard Dixie has deleted bad reviews in the past, no idea if that's true or not but they have left mine up so far. Anyway, the Palmetto I got had a flaw in the bore which was a crater. It looked like a casting flaw which happens sometimes in cast stuff, which was not what I'd expect to see in a barrel. I'm not saying they cast their barrels, only that the one I got had an approximately 1/4 X 1/32 inch crater which was oriented diagonally in the bore, crossing both the groove and land. I couldn't tell how deep it was. The cylinder arbor had been screwed in too far at the factory or was just made too short, causing the barrel to have an upward angle and making the top of the forcing cone drag on the front of the cylinder. The difference on the alignment of the bore with the chambers was bad enough that a bore size dowell rod inserted down the muzzle hit the side of the chamber wall at about 3/4 of the way back and couldn't bottom out in the back of the chamber without being forced. The indexing was also off badly. Every chamber would have shaved a big hunk of lead from the bullet as it jumped from the chamber to the barrel. The hammer didn't want to come back at all until the wedge was removed and the pressure from the drag of the barrel on the cylinder front was alleviated, but when the barrel and cylinder were removed, the hammer still drug so badly on the side of the hammer cut through the frame that it wouldn't go all the way forward without being forced. There may have been other things wrong I didn't discover or have forgotten about, but I sent it back to Dixie.

Needless to say, I'll never buy another Palmetto.

Steve

shoebox1.1 · December 25, 2006, 12:23 PM

sorry to hear about all the trouble but thats the second bad story ive heard. did dixie take the return with no hassles?

marcseatac · December 25, 2006, 03:04 PM

This sale Cabelas is having represents the lowest prices I have seen them offer and I have been watching the website over a year now. It's a great chance to pick one up cheap. You need'nt register to buy one online UPS to your door!

Steve499 · December 25, 2006, 04:23 PM

Dixie took it back without any trouble, the only hassle I had was from my local post office when I mailed it back. I have always had very good experiences dealing with Dixie. I'm sort of disappointed with them now and don't believe they would be handling Palmetto if Turner Kirkland was still around, or, if they did, he'd have had some mention of the lesser quality in the catalog. I still buy from them, in fact am getting ready to order some stuff for my nephew. I like how they list the manufacturer of their guns in the catalog so I can weed out Palmetto in the future.

Steve

shoebox1.1 · December 25, 2006, 07:46 PM

i like to see "made by_____" rather than just italy. so ive decided on that gun now just the other questions of lube/patch/grease-preference. i like the grease over ball but if the ball is so tight that it shaves a ring off going down into the cyl i dont see how a spark is going to get around that ball to attack the compacted grains. therefore no grease should be needed. ill try it all the ways... i do like the options.. you can expiriment and make your own witches brew

marcseatac · December 25, 2006, 08:25 PM

Those lubricated felt wads are nice. Just added insurance. Cabelas sells those also.

shoebox1.1 · December 25, 2006, 11:15 PM

so i could just buy the lubed felt wad and use it only....? no grease on top of the ball? when you have a felt or wad behind the ball does it go through the barrel upon firing? does it disintergrate before the muzzle? i do like the idea of a wad cleaning the bore with every shot!

marcseatac · December 25, 2006, 11:26 PM

That's right.

I've been using those wads from day one. They work really well, save you time fiddling around with stuff and keep your hands clean. I would use them at least in the beginning till you figure out what else you want to try!

shoebox1.1 · December 25, 2006, 11:40 PM

the wads are in my future....... its all coming clear now.... lol marc your R&S is georgous (saw pics in another thread).. i like it more than a 58'

marcseatac · December 25, 2006, 11:52 PM

Thanks, I am tickled pink about the R&S. The wads are nice because you can load a chamber and push the wad down and then load the next chamber, if you tip the gun down all the powder doesn't fall out. I load 5 chambers that way then I go around again and seat the balls. Makes it simple and faster.

pohill · December 26, 2006, 07:53 PM

I had a double-chamber fire last week. It was in a Paterson .36 caliber with a lube pill over the powder (like a lubed wad but made of beeswax and paraffin, ). The fourth and fifth chambers went off together. The ball shaved a nice ring when I rammed it down - I think the problem was that the ball had an uneven surface (I cast a bunch last week) which allowed the spark to sneak around. The cap on that last cylinder was unfired.

December 24, 2006, 11:31 PM	#1
shoebox1.1 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2006 Location: mckinney tx Posts: 122	want to purchase my 1st BP--brass or steel hello gentlemen.. ive had this bug lately to purchase a 1851 navy. somthing about it has always sparked my interest and im ready to buy. i like to do as much research as i can before i buy so i dont do somthing stupid. --- ive got 2 friends of mine that are gunsmiths/life long gunnuts and both have said (with a lil hesitation in their voice) dont get the brass........ go with the steel -----remington at that! well i dont want a remington (yet)! lol like most folks nowadays cost is a factor.. i would love to have a decked out uberti but thats not going to happen anytime soon! im thinking about the good ol cabelas/bass pro mail order for the pistol and then sourcing all the lil fun stuff local. i want to have a nice leather doctor style bag to carry all this stuff around in! dangerous stuff separate of course! so back to the question... palmetto/pietta/traditions-ardesa??? and/or brass or steel?? I WOULD PERFER STEEL JUST FOR LOOKS but it isnt a deal breaker. im very nastalgic....... which were more made? grunts had the brass and the "brass" had the steel? lol which gun should be avoided... palmetto? thanks in advance and may your charged bores stay separated! gus

December 25, 2006, 01:42 AM	#8
marcseatac Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 225	The one with the silver backstrap, most the Cabelas guns are Pietta except the Walker. If I only wanted to keep one, it would have to be a .44, the .36 is on sale for $169, but the .44 is just so much fun! Don't get me wrong the .36 is great too, but to me it's more of a second gun. Welcome to the board and Merry Christmas! Last edited by marcseatac; December 25, 2006 at 02:23 AM.

December 24, 2006, 11:55 PM	#2
Hafoc Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2005 Posts: 552	I don't know much about the different brands. I've had Uberti percussion revolvers and now I have Uberti "Schofield" cartridge revolvers. They've all worked just fine out of the box. From personal experience I can't talk about the other brands. I've never owned any of them. (This isn't a decision on my part, it just turned out that way.) Anyone is free to correct me if I'm wrong, but the general impression I get is that Pietta used to be below Uberti in quality, but worked, and has come up in the world lately. Also that Euroarms is OK but not found as often as the other two. I've read exactly one reference to Palmetto and that was negative. I don't think one reference, good or negative, is enough to be sure. The original 1851 Navy revolvers were all steel-framed (or I think more likely iron). If you're concerned about authenticity, then, you'd want steel. They were .36 caliber, too. You will find them with brass frames and in .44 caliber. Neither of these is exactly authentic. I say "exactly authentic" because there were period-correct revolvers made with brass frames, especially by the Confederates. Why, I don't know. I can only suppose brass was easier to produce than iron. The Griswold and Gunnison, for example, was a brass-framed copy of the Colt 1851 Navy. It was a .36 caliber too. Its barrel was round, while the Navy's is octagonal. There was also a brass-framed Remington look-alike, Spiller and Burr I think. It wasn't a copy of the Remington, rather it was a copy of some other solid-framed Northern revolver, I forget which. But in general configuration it looked sort of like a Remington. The Confederates never were able to produce many of any class of arms. If you're talking Colt's iron-framed 1851s vs. their Confederate brass-framed copies, I believe the Colts were produced in the hundreds of thousands and the Griswold and Gunnison something like three thousand. Practically speaking, I would expect a modern brass-framed revolver to shoot loose LONG before a modern steel-framed one would. If the lower price of the brass-framed versions is important to you, you'd have to ask yourself whether you were going to shoot the thing enough to have to worry about wearing it out. On the other hand-- looks to me like the steel-framed 1851s are about the least expensive steel-framed replica going. It was perhaps THE classic percussion revolver of that era, and it's quite a bargain today.

December 25, 2006, 12:46 AM	#3
shoebox1.1 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2006 Location: mckinney tx Posts: 122	thanks for the response and merry xmas.... i was thinking along those lines as far as the production numbers and who did what... i like the brass frame guns they look nice and are affordable. we are talking about 2 different metals.... one is known to be "softer" than the other. in a "streching" sense the steel wins. i havent shot or loaded a gun like this yet so i cant comment on number of rounds that would get fired. i have a sneaky feeling im going to like it very much and really get into it! the slow pace and attn to details sounds very relaxing. i used to race slot cars competively and when you are at the slot car track "in the zone" you forget about all your problems..... im not racing anymore and need somthing fun and relaxing. like i said before im very nostalgic so much so that i think i outta go steel .36 cal just so can say this is how it used to be..... so if i go steel .36 colt 1851 which one and how much?? thanks

December 25, 2006, 01:05 AM	#4
marcseatac Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 225	If I were you, I would get the 1851 steel .44 cal Pietta. 1 For the price 2 Because it's a .44, if you only have one it should be a .44 3 Steel cause it's durable And their on sale for $209 at Cabelas. This represents the best value.

December 25, 2006, 01:33 AM	#5
shoebox1.1 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2006 Location: mckinney tx Posts: 122	that sounds good!!! 209? hummm i was online tonite and i dont remember seeing that.. thats the kind of budget i was hoping to stay on. tonite is my 1st time lurking around BP forums and from what i can see the community is full of my kind of people... very helpful thanks again gus

December 25, 2006, 01:37 AM	#6
shoebox1.1 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2006 Location: mckinney tx Posts: 122	i did see that but i dont believe it says pietta....

December 25, 2006, 01:38 AM	#7
marcseatac Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 225	http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...ainCatcat20712

December 25, 2006, 10:37 AM	#9
Steve499 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Central Missouri Posts: 533	I've heard several negative Palmetto reviews and zero positive ones. I personally decided to take a chance and buy one since that particular model was on special at Dixie Gun Works. It was a .31 pocket Colt listed by Dixie as the "Hartford" pocket model. Well, it arrived and was a disaster. I wrote a bad review on it which Dixie still had up the last time I checked. I have heard Dixie has deleted bad reviews in the past, no idea if that's true or not but they have left mine up so far. Anyway, the Palmetto I got had a flaw in the bore which was a crater. It looked like a casting flaw which happens sometimes in cast stuff, which was not what I'd expect to see in a barrel. I'm not saying they cast their barrels, only that the one I got had an approximately 1/4 X 1/32 inch crater which was oriented diagonally in the bore, crossing both the groove and land. I couldn't tell how deep it was. The cylinder arbor had been screwed in too far at the factory or was just made too short, causing the barrel to have an upward angle and making the top of the forcing cone drag on the front of the cylinder. The difference on the alignment of the bore with the chambers was bad enough that a bore size dowell rod inserted down the muzzle hit the side of the chamber wall at about 3/4 of the way back and couldn't bottom out in the back of the chamber without being forced. The indexing was also off badly. Every chamber would have shaved a big hunk of lead from the bullet as it jumped from the chamber to the barrel. The hammer didn't want to come back at all until the wedge was removed and the pressure from the drag of the barrel on the cylinder front was alleviated, but when the barrel and cylinder were removed, the hammer still drug so badly on the side of the hammer cut through the frame that it wouldn't go all the way forward without being forced. There may have been other things wrong I didn't discover or have forgotten about, but I sent it back to Dixie. Needless to say, I'll never buy another Palmetto. Steve

December 25, 2006, 12:23 PM	#10
shoebox1.1 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2006 Location: mckinney tx Posts: 122	sorry to hear about all the trouble but thats the second bad story ive heard. did dixie take the return with no hassles?

December 25, 2006, 03:04 PM	#11
marcseatac Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 225	This sale Cabelas is having represents the lowest prices I have seen them offer and I have been watching the website over a year now. It's a great chance to pick one up cheap. You need'nt register to buy one online UPS to your door!

December 25, 2006, 04:23 PM	#12
Steve499 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Central Missouri Posts: 533	Dixie took it back without any trouble, the only hassle I had was from my local post office when I mailed it back. I have always had very good experiences dealing with Dixie. I'm sort of disappointed with them now and don't believe they would be handling Palmetto if Turner Kirkland was still around, or, if they did, he'd have had some mention of the lesser quality in the catalog. I still buy from them, in fact am getting ready to order some stuff for my nephew. I like how they list the manufacturer of their guns in the catalog so I can weed out Palmetto in the future. Steve

December 25, 2006, 07:46 PM	#13
shoebox1.1 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2006 Location: mckinney tx Posts: 122	i like to see "made by_____" rather than just italy. so ive decided on that gun now just the other questions of lube/patch/grease-preference. i like the grease over ball but if the ball is so tight that it shaves a ring off going down into the cyl i dont see how a spark is going to get around that ball to attack the compacted grains. therefore no grease should be needed. ill try it all the ways... i do like the options.. you can expiriment and make your own witches brew

December 25, 2006, 08:25 PM	#14
marcseatac Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 225	Those lubricated felt wads are nice. Just added insurance. Cabelas sells those also.

December 25, 2006, 11:15 PM	#15
shoebox1.1 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2006 Location: mckinney tx Posts: 122	so i could just buy the lubed felt wad and use it only....? no grease on top of the ball? when you have a felt or wad behind the ball does it go through the barrel upon firing? does it disintergrate before the muzzle? i do like the idea of a wad cleaning the bore with every shot!

December 25, 2006, 11:26 PM	#16
marcseatac Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 225	That's right. I've been using those wads from day one. They work really well, save you time fiddling around with stuff and keep your hands clean. I would use them at least in the beginning till you figure out what else you want to try!

December 25, 2006, 11:40 PM	#17
shoebox1.1 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2006 Location: mckinney tx Posts: 122	the wads are in my future....... its all coming clear now.... lol marc your R&S is georgous (saw pics in another thread).. i like it more than a 58'

December 25, 2006, 11:52 PM	#18
marcseatac Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 225	Thanks, I am tickled pink about the R&S. The wads are nice because you can load a chamber and push the wad down and then load the next chamber, if you tip the gun down all the powder doesn't fall out. I load 5 chambers that way then I go around again and seat the balls. Makes it simple and faster.

December 26, 2006, 07:53 PM	#19
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	I had a double-chamber fire last week. It was in a Paterson .36 caliber with a lube pill over the powder (like a lubed wad but made of beeswax and paraffin, ). The fourth and fifth chambers went off together. The ball shaved a nice ring when I rammed it down - I think the problem was that the ball had an uneven surface (I cast a bunch last week) which allowed the spark to sneak around. The cap on that last cylinder was unfired.