The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 17, 2014, 10:05 PM   #1
Damon555
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 11, 2012
Posts: 384
Light 44 special loads with Unique.

I have been searching far and wide for a recipe to conjure up a light load for my 44 special Bulldog using Unique as the powder with 200 grain lead round nose flat point bullets. There is absolutely zero data out there (with Unique) as everyone is pretty much using the standard pressure Skeeter Skelton loads. These loads are fine...but still a little on the stout side for extended range sessions with a light gun.

Now I understand that when you don't find the loads in any manuals there's a reason for that and I always stick to published data...But this is an extreme case. I cannot find any other handgun powder....period. An 8lb jug of H110 is sitting on my shelf right next to the 8lb jug of Unique but we all know that you cannot download H110. Being an experienced handloader I decided the only thing to do was to do a little experimenting.

The absolute lowest published load in any of my manuals for a 200 grain LRNFP bullet with Unique is 6 grains. But it's still a little on the rough side running through the 20 oz Charter Arms revolver. So I loaded up some test lots of 5.0, 5.5 and 6.0 grains just get a feel for how the rounds would react to being loaded on the lighter side. I also applied a relatively heavy crimp to ensure that the winchester large pistol primers had a chance to properly ignite the minute charge of Unique.

The testing went quite well. I was on high alert for stuck bullets or erratic pressure signs but didn't encounter adverse indications. The 5 grain load shot great and was a real pu$$y cat. The 5.5 grain load was just a tad sharper but still comfortable.....The 6 grain load was pushing the gun around a little more than I like for practice ammo. So it appears that loading 5-5.5 grains of Unique is going to work just fine.

I need to be able to practice with the gun I plan on carrying without beating the gun and my hand to pieces. The shortage of pistol powders has made it difficult to achieve my goal of having suitable ammunition until now. I feel that the results were satisfactory and I can now load up the slew of 200 grain lead bullets I have on hand.

I titled the thread the way I did with the hopes that anyone else looking to accomplish the same thing can find the data easily...But please use caution when using loads that you find on the internet......
Damon555 is offline  
Old April 17, 2014, 10:55 PM   #2
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 7,014
Funny you should put that one up, I still keep my Bulldog 44 Target special around.

Digging into my archive (don't ask how long ago this was) I had 6 gr Unique with a 250 gr lead SW (still have a bunch of those rounds)

The comment was, sharp palm stinging, ok on pressure.
RC20 is offline  
Old April 18, 2014, 07:07 AM   #3
Ozzieman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 6,117
Aliant on line guide lists a minimum load for a 200 GR jacketed for Unique of 5.5 Gr.
So that should be a safe load for your Dog. For 200 Gr lead in my dog or S&W’s I use W231 because I have a ton of it and have a long history with it and for the dog I go a little under minimum load but only a small amount.
How was the accuracy? That is the major thing I have found to suffer from light loads. The other is being a dirty load. Not enough pressure to seal the case. That’s why I normally stay above minimum loads.


http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...32&bulletid=48
__________________
It was a sad day when I discovered my universal remote control did not in fact control the universe.

Did you hear about the latest study.....5 out of 6 liberals say that Russian Roulette is safe.
Ozzieman is offline  
Old April 18, 2014, 07:24 AM   #4
Damon555
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 11, 2012
Posts: 384
Thanks for the info Oz. When I did my searches they were always for lead bullets. That's probably why the load never came up.

To answer your accuracy question it was much better than the 240 grain plated bullets that I tried. I wasn't doing any formal group shooting, just testing for pressure issues. If i had to guess I'd say an inch or so at 15 yards....pretty good in my book.

They weren't any dirtier than any of the stiffer loads either....which surprised me....just the usual bullet lube smoke. I think the amount of crimp helped that. Getting good combustion before the case lets go of the bullet is key to keeping Unique loads from smoking up the case and gun in my opinion.
Damon555 is offline  
Old April 18, 2014, 08:29 AM   #5
243winxb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,730
Sounds to me like you need to trade the 44 for a 38
243winxb is offline  
Old April 18, 2014, 09:02 AM   #6
Damon555
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 11, 2012
Posts: 384
Already have a 38.....that's the wife's gun......the lighter loads are for more enjoyable trigger time. Shooting full power loads all the time in the Bulldog snubbie is not my idea of fun.
Damon555 is offline  
Old April 18, 2014, 09:48 AM   #7
FlyFish
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2009
Location: Overlooking the Baker River Valley
Posts: 1,723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzieman
Aliant on line guide lists a minimum load for a 200 GR jacketed for Unique of 5.5 Gr.
I load .44 Special for my Model 24 and have a number of pounds of Unique on the shelf, so followed the link. I don't see any minimum load listed for Unique or any of the other powders, only a single charge weight (7.8 gr in the case of Unique). Is there in fact a minimum load listed there? If so, I can't find it.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Life Member
NRA Certified Instructor: Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, PPIH, Metallic & Shotgun Shell Reloading; RSO
Pemigewasset Valley Fish & Game Club
FlyFish is offline  
Old April 18, 2014, 10:54 AM   #8
Slamfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Posts: 5,261
I have a Taurus M431 and it is a little heavier than a Charter Arms Bulldog. Once I put on the rubber grips the recoil from my loads did not bother me. So this is my load development data with 200 grain lead bullets.

My 431 shoots to point of aim at 25 yards with 200 grain bullets. Obviously Taurus meant this to be used with the advanced 200 grain self defense loads on the market. My normal 44 Special loads with 240 grain bullets shot quite high. I was able to purchase 200 grain LSWC bullets, at an advertized brinell hardness of 13.

I used Unique as that is an exceptionally flexible powder, something I normally use in 44 Spl, and it did not let me down.

Since I got light leading at 6.0 grs Unique, and it shoot to point of aim with excellent accuracy, and it is the lightest recoiling of the test sequence, that is what I use in practice. I suspect I was pushing the pistol on the heavier loads.

Code:
Taurus M431 3" Barrel	
			
240 LSWC 5.0 grs Red Dot  thrown, Midway Brass CCI 500
			
Ave Vel =684.1		
Std Dev =17.11		
ES =	57.84		
Low = 	654.1		
High = 	712		
N =	16		
		Shoots way high

			
					
205 LSWC 6.0 grs Unique  thrown, Midway Brass WLP		
				T = 54 °F	11-Dec-04
Ave Vel =789.6				
Std Dev =27.18				
ES =96.54		 		
Low = 724.1				
High = 820.6				
N =30				
Accurate, shoots point of aim, light leading. 
					
					
					
205 LSWC 6.5 Unique  thrown, Midway Brass WLP		
				T = 54 °F	25-Nov-04
Ave Vel =	866	 	 	 	 
Std Dev =	16				
ES =	52				
Low = 	839				
High = 	891				
N =	11				
Elevation good, but left; more leading		
					
			
					
205 LSWC 7.0 grs Unique  thrown, Midway Brass WLP		
				T = 57 °F	25-Nov-04
Ave Vel =	906				 
Std Dev =	16				 
ES =	56				 
Low = 	876				 
High = 	932				
N =	15				
 elevation good but left: worst leading 	 	 	 	
		 	 	 	
 
__________________
If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.
Slamfire is offline  
Old April 18, 2014, 04:17 PM   #9
Damon555
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 11, 2012
Posts: 384
How much does the Taurus weigh? How does it handle the recoil of your upper end loads? I'm just curious.....
Damon555 is offline  
Old April 19, 2014, 01:15 PM   #10
totaldla
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2009
Location: SW Idaho
Posts: 1,276
In a perfect world where the proper powder was readily available, I would encourage you to pick a much faster pistol powder - Unique is too slow for what you want to do.
totaldla is offline  
Old April 20, 2014, 09:31 AM   #11
salvadore
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 1, 2007
Location: Idaho
Posts: 2,282
I load the modern version of the Anderton design in my 18 oz. 396 Mountain Lite Smith. It casts close to 200gr. with my alloy and I use titegroup to get what I believe is around 750fps. Still pretty snappy. What do Bulldogs weigh?
salvadore is offline  
Old April 20, 2014, 09:36 AM   #12
pete2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,566
Light loads with a faster burning powder like Bullseye or WST might be more to your liking.
pete2 is offline  
Old April 20, 2014, 09:44 AM   #13
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 7,014
He can't get any other powder.

Also, a slower burning powder builds pressure slower so at least theoretical less pop than more.

Unique is a find powder and works well. In my case I developed a number of loads with it and no sense in having to go through it again and if thats all you can get then its still a good choice.

I know the older powders are looked down on by some, but they still work as well ans sometimes better than the new ones that keep popping up.

I have only seen one new powder that was actually better, to me its like all the calibers they have come out with, its about sales and new not an improvement.
RC20 is offline  
Old April 20, 2014, 10:19 AM   #14
Damon555
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 11, 2012
Posts: 384
Quote:
He can't get any other powder.
Correct.....one only needs to make it to the second paragraph of my original post to get that information.

Unique is not the ideal powder that I understand....But since nothing else is available it's my only option. The loads light loads I came up with using Unique worked quite well....The were accurate and the recoil in the 20oz Bulldog was not bad at all.....
Damon555 is offline  
Old April 20, 2014, 12:04 PM   #15
Slamfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Posts: 5,261
Quote:
How much does the Taurus weigh? How does it handle the recoil of your upper end loads? I'm just curious.....
Two pounds three ounces. Recoil with the rubber grips is not painful, it is quite controllable.
__________________
If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.
Slamfire is offline  
Old April 20, 2014, 02:28 PM   #16
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 7,014
Quote:
Correct.....one only needs to make it to the second paragraph of my original post to get that information.

Unique is not the ideal powder that I understand....But since nothing else is available it's my only option. The loads light loads I came up with using Unique worked quite well....The were accurate and the recoil in the 20oz Bulldog was not bad at all.....
Not to mention that even a Target Bulldog was not (IMNSHO) an very accurate gun anyway. I got the target model and would be better off with the non (courser sights more suited to the job intended). On the other hand I was an accuracy bug in those days, hmmm.

While not a Saturday night special, to quote one of the great gun writers (attributed to various) intended to be shot little, carried a lot.

Its a light gun with a shorter barrel intended as a concealed carry or in my case a house gun and it serves that purpose well.

In my case I sure am not going to go out and buy another powder if I could find it just to fine tune something that would not work on anyway . Gold utensils on a camping trip so to speak.

Last edited by RC20; April 20, 2014 at 02:47 PM.
RC20 is offline  
Old April 20, 2014, 03:39 PM   #17
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 7,014
I have an old LYman book that dates 1982

For Unique and a 205 gr bullet, It shows starting 7 gr with a max of 8
10,500 CUP and 14,000 Cup respectively (check that data of course!)

I would guess that was the data or equal I used for the Bulldog when I loaded it to 6.
RC20 is offline  
Old April 20, 2014, 04:17 PM   #18
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,617
I have an older Lyman book, dating from the 70s, and with the 232, 245, and 260gr cast bullets, the starting load is 5.0gr Unique.

Test gun was a Colt SAA, with 5.5" barrel and starting load velocities are listed in the 675fps range.

Unique is a fine, mid-range powder, and my experience is that it behaves well with light loads too.

Essentially, as long as you use enough to ensure the bullet does not stick in the barrel, it will be ok.

Just be sure to keep a close eye on each shot, until you have fired enough of the light loads to be confident you won't have one stick.

The biggest concern is using only about 1/4 of the powder space, you can miss a double charge, with very bad results. So use care when loading, and carefully visually compare charged cases under a good light. Anything that doesn't look the same (up or down) dump the charge and do it again.

you may be tempted to cut corners, after all, its a light practice load, but I assure you, if you double charge a case, and don't catch it before pulling the trigger, it will very likely be the last thing you ever do with that revolver. And that assumes you get away without injury, which is not guaranteed.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old April 20, 2014, 05:51 PM   #19
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 7,014
I treat all loads the same, check the level to be sure

1. There is powder in there
2. The levels look the same

Most of the rifle load if not all I can't double charge.

Those small pistol loads yes. And if you can double or more then the proportional affect is higher (so they scare me more though I am always nervous as it were in a good sense).
RC20 is offline  
Old April 20, 2014, 09:53 PM   #20
Damon555
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 11, 2012
Posts: 384
I am have OCD when it comes to checking powder charges in cases. They get checked and rechecked several times.....Since I've been loading small test batches these have all been loaded on my single stage. When it comes time to load a large batch they'll get loaded with my 550b. Every single case gets checked on big blue too.....
Damon555 is offline  
Old April 21, 2014, 10:34 AM   #21
g.willikers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 10,442
The Bulldog weighs 21 oz, empty, according to the Charter web site.
That's one pound, five ounces.
http://charterfirearms.com/products/...ldog_14420.asp
Small wonder it kicks hard.
But then it's not much different than some poly framed autos.
__________________
Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez:
“Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”
g.willikers is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.08271 seconds with 8 queries