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Old April 17, 2014, 10:57 AM   #1
ckpj99
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Process for Working Up a Load

I just want to hear how everyone works up a load for accuracy.

I'm developing two loads for 30-30 right now. The first is a 165gr hard cast bullet over IMR 4198 powder. The second is a 170gr jacketed Speer Hot-Cor bullet over Lever Evolution powder. I made 20 rounds of each.

For the lead round, the recommended charge range was 15gr to 17gr. So I didn't three round groups of 15.3, 15.6, 16, 16.3, 16.6, and 17 (with a couple extra 16gr loads for sighting in, just to make sure I'm on paper).

I forget the exact recommended loading for the jacketed round, but I think it started around 33gr. I did that one in half grain increments.

I'm planning to test to rounds on different days. I think I'm going to test the lead tomorrow. I'm going to shoot three rounds of factory ammo, let the gun cool for 5 minutes, then shoot a three round group with my first set of charges, let the gun cool for 5 minutes, shoot the next set, let the gun cool for 5 minutes, etc. I think this will give me consistent results. I won't be shooting each group with a completely cold gun, but it should at least be close to the same temperature each time.

So how do you guys work up a load? When deciding what charges of powder to test, what do your steps look like: full grain steps, half grain, .2 grain, .1 grain? How do you manage the other variables with your testing like barrel temperature and fouling without making your test take three days?

Thanks!
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Old April 17, 2014, 11:12 AM   #2
jwrowland77
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Generally, if say I have a spread of 40gr up to 45gr, I'll go 40, 41, 42, 42.5, 43, 43.3, 43.6, 43.9,
44.2, 44.5, 44.8, 45.
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Old April 17, 2014, 11:17 AM   #3
myfriendis410
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A ladder test is a good way to determine the node for a particular bullet/powder/case/primer combination.

You can do a ladder test with different powders, different bullets, different primers and cases. Once you've found a node, you can further test by seating depth and crimp strength. On occasion you may even shoot less by following this method.
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Old April 17, 2014, 11:21 AM   #4
overthere
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Call me inefficient but I now do my load development using 10 shot groups. I used to do 5 shot groups but I found there was not enough data to be conclusive. I have had 10 shot groups that look awesome after 3- 5 shots that after 10 look less impressive. Similarly I have had groups that did not look too hot after 3 turn out to be the best of the bunch after 10.

As far as stepping I will do either .5 grains or .3 grains depending on the spread and other factors.
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Old April 17, 2014, 11:35 AM   #5
Brian Pfleuger
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Developing loads for a .30-30? This isn't exactly a benchrest gun. Barrel nodes and uber-precision need not apply.

Working up 3 shots each at increments of around 1% is more than plenty.

Again, this isn't a target gun, least I've never heard of a .30-30 target gun. (Someone will show me one, I just know it.)

If this is a hunting gun, only the first shot matters. 10 shot groups are crazy for such a thing. We don't need to know maximum group size to a 99.9% probability.

Work up the load in 3 shot, 1-1.5% increments and call it good. Shoot 3, wait 5 minutes and shoot the next 3.
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Old April 17, 2014, 12:11 PM   #6
snuffy
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Shooting lead after shooting jacketed bullets is not a good idea. The rifle will fire safely, BUT the lead bullet will not run over the copper fouling very well. One of the most important things to do is to make sure the copper fouling is removed completely before firing lead bullets.

Another thing, way too much is made about barrel heat. The 30-30 does not burn a lot of powder and the velocity is low, so not a lot of heat is produced.

The reason a lever gun is not really accurate, IE not like a well bedded bolt action rifle, is the 2 piece stock, and barrel rings to hold the fore-end to the barrel. If you can get a 2" group @ 100 yards, you're doing well. Few will do better.
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Old April 17, 2014, 12:16 PM   #7
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I like using the OCW system. Use less components to do load development and it seems to work well for me regardless of gun or caliber.
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Old April 17, 2014, 03:48 PM   #8
ckpj99
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snuffy - Good call on the lead after jacketed. Instead of warming the gun up and sighting in with factory loads, I'll use some other lead reloads I already have.

However, 30-30s are notoriously bad for stringing with heat. All the things you mentioned that rattle around on the gun also heat up and really screw with accuracy. I've seen it myself at 50 yards. Someone also posted a target here they shot at 100 yards that showed around five shots in a perfectly vertical line each about 1/2 inch apart. That's extreme, but for my tests I'd like to at least try to keep the gun at a steady temperature.

Brian - thank you for stating this. I keep here people say "there's no 30-30 lever gun that's a 1 moa gun." I think that's completely untrue. I think if someone fires off 20 rounds, they'll never get them in one MOA, but I believe that's due to the heat issue. I think, with the right load, I can get my first shot out of cold gun to be 1 moa consistently. That's what I'm working toward, and I'll let you know if I get there.

A little more on the heat issue: my 30-30 is from the 60s. I don't know if steel was different then, or what, but my gun heats up fast, especially with Lever Evolution rounds. After even one shot, the whole barrel feels warm for awhile. After three shots, it's hot, but you can still hold it if you need to. After five shots, it's almost too hot to hold.

The expansion coefficient of plain steel is 0.0000072. This is an oversimplification of what's going on, but let's assume my barrel behaves similarly to a plain steel rod of the same length. Let's also say after a string of shots, my barrel goes from room temperature (72 degrees) to 122 degrees (which I think is very conservative), a change in 50 degrees.

50 x 0.0000072 = 0.00036 (this is our multiplier)

The length of my 336 barrel is 20". 20 x .00036 = .0072. That means my barrel is now .0072" longer than before. Not a huge difference, but when you're talking about fractions of a degree for good accuracy, it matters.

I personally think my barrel is reaching temperatures over 200 degrees if I fire six or eight shots of hot rounds like the Lever Evolution rounds. This would translate to a lengthening of almost .02".

This obviously doesn't take into account the expansion of the diameter of the barrel, or the pressure increase on barrel/receiver mount, or the pressure increase on the magazine tube band or anything else. But steel does expand with temperature, and it expands in amounts that amounts that matter in terms of reloading. .02" added to your case length or seating depth would have a difference on your point of impact.
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Old April 17, 2014, 05:59 PM   #9
thevalueman
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O.K.
As a newbie on this site, I may be out of line, however, I'd say the most important thing would be how both loads shoot togather...in other words can you sight in, and have both loads shoot to the same point....it's a 30-30...accuracy, I would think would be second to that...just a thought
:-)Rocky
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Old April 17, 2014, 06:17 PM   #10
ckpj99
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thevalueman - Lead loads are have to be shot much slower than jacketed loads. If shot to quickly, the friction will melt the lead and cause "leading." Jacketed loads need to be shot faster so they can expand. Also, my uses for the two loads will be different. So, basically the only way to get them to hit the same point of impact would be to use a drastically reduced load jacketed round, which defeats the purpose. I'm planning to sight-in whenever I switch loads, so there's no need to make the hit the same spot.
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Old April 17, 2014, 06:28 PM   #11
Clark
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I have never believed that one powder charge is more accurate than another.
If I work up with 5 shots at every 0.1 gr increment, some loads seem more accurate. If I do it again another day, the results are NEVER repeatable.... which means out of control variables were fooling me temporarily.

So, in strong rifles, I work up until something goes wrong, back off a safety margin, and there is my load.
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Old April 17, 2014, 06:40 PM   #12
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Load development is a lot of darn work!

With my 30-30 Marlin, I used a bunch of different powders and 170 grain bullets. I shot five shot groups over a chronograph to quickly sort out the combinations that had promise and the velocity I wanted, from the chaff. The combinations that had promise I loaded again and shot ten shot groups.

I went up 0.5 grains at a time, tried to estimate the maximum load so I would only have to shoot 15 rounds (that is three 5 shot groups) to get there.

It took weeks to finish the process. Go out and shoot a hundred rounds (I shot more than just the 30-30), reload the stuff, and do it again.

It is only fun in the past tense. It is a lot of work in the present tense.
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Old April 17, 2014, 08:03 PM   #13
Bart B.
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There's a 4 to 5 percent spread in charge weight just below max that's hard to tell any accuracy difference with.

My barrels show no accuracy degradation or impact walking over 20 to 30 shots in half as many minutes. Even with 28 to 32 inch barrels growing a few ten-thousandths inch in length and shooting 1/2 MOA at long range for the entire string of shots.

Last edited by Bart B.; April 18, 2014 at 07:12 AM.
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