Scary Encounter recently..... - Page 4

threegun · January 15, 2007, 02:12 PM

GVF,

Quote:

I said you may have had imprerssions to make you feel justified. Earlier. You missed that. However, your problem is that the man was found legally blameless because he was - and you won't accept it.

He was justified in pulling and pointing his gun. A man, a stranger, forced his way into his home after being told not to. Maybe you don't consider that justification but obviously the police did and most on this board do.

Quote:

You care not a whit that -justfied by an impression or not - a tragic error possibly resulting in loss of life occurred. You have no relief that it didn't. You have not a thought for the man who could have been killed.

How do you know he didn't care about this guy or wasn't relieved by not having to shoot him?

Quote:

The reason you are irresponisble is not that you acted under impressions that technically may have made it legal, but because you miss a lot of external reality and care only about being right and your own interior feelings. This is a poor way for a man with a gun to evaluate situations that may come up. That depends on seeing what IS, and caring enough about reality and other people that you bother to notice objectively.

It is bad tactics and frankly not smart to incorporate the bad guys feelings into your decision to draw or use deadly force. In the real world and at real speed one must determine if a threat rises to the level of using force in a flash. When a salesman forces his way into your home he jumps past pushy salesman and directly into bad guy for me. The salesman and no one else knows why he is pushing his way into my home (unless you can read minds....I can't). Therefore I must react to this potential threat based on the facts right then and there. Galilarm used appropriate force as well as restraint once the threat was over and the situation in hand.

Guys like you that love to Monday morning QB every situation fail to realize what a large man at contact range can do to you and how fast they can do it. I suggest some FOF training for a dose of reality.

RevJim · January 18, 2007, 01:23 PM

We seem to have spent a lot of time analyzing Galilarm's response to the unknown stranger and why it is wrong to pull a gun on an unarmed man. In hindsight, the man was unarmed and "innocent." So pulling a gun in this situation "appears" to be unwarranted.

But let's look a little deeper and analyze the "salesman's" actions as well. He pushed his way into two different homes. Some people can do this with their personality: 15 minutes talking with them and you are buying whatever they offer and telling them your life story! After they leave, you call them and invite them to lunch! But other people do this through intimidation: they are bigger and intimidate people into buying what they are offering. It appears that this salesman's tactics involved getting into people's homes and forcing them to buy magazines before he would leave (not with physical force but with physical intimidation). People are afraid to try anything physical and do not want to call the police, so they endure his sales pitch, buy a magazine subscription, and then he leaves.

Now, what happens if someone challenges this man? What happens if a person tells him to leave or they will throw him out? What happens if a person threatens to call the police while he is standing there? In other words, what if someone calls his bluff? Will he back down from his tactics and politely leave (thus subjecting himself to ridicule and shame)? Or will he react with physical force?

This salesman twice forced his way into people's homes univited. This man twice used physical intimidation to try to scare people into buying magazines. Would you trust this man in your home? Would you trust this man alone with your wife and children? Would you trust this man alone in your living room while you went to get a pen, your checkbook, or your credit card? Remember, he entered your home univited: you have not had a chance to close the doors to hide your bigscreen plasma tv, your surround sound entertainment system, and your stereo; you have not had time to put away your business's cash that your were counting for payroll; you did not have time to warn your wife not to come out of the bedroom in her robe/towel/etc. So is this man a threat? Possibly! Surely we could all admit that this man posed a potential danger! And when Galilarm asked him to leave, the man refused! How would you get the man to leave? What reasonable, rational person barges into a home univited and refuses to leave when ordered to? What options are left? Sure, you could flip a coin: "Heads you leave now, tales I buy a magazine subscription." You could ignore the stranger in your home and go back to your business ("Hey, I am getting ready for work. Don't mind me and make yourself at home. There's Coke in the fridge and my girlfriend made brownies that are on the counter." "I am leaving for work now; make sure to lock up on your way out!"). Galilarm did not ask the salesman to come in and the salesman refused to leave when he asked him to. Can you really say the man does not present a threat? Yes, he did not have a gun. But he was acting irrationally and we do not know what his true intentions were.

I do not think Galilarm is disappointed that the salesman was released and not arrested. I think he is disappointed that the salesman barged into his home and refused to leave, and then barged into his girlfriend's home and refused to leave. Yes, it could have been tragic that Galilarm shot an unarmed man who was simply trying to sell magazines. But it could have been equally tragic that the salesman cased out Galilarm's home and then returned in the middle of the night to kill him and steal his stuff. It could have been equally tragic if the salesman raped Galilarm's girlfriend and then killed her.

This situation out to make us think. We must be careful not to pull a gun at every visitor or salesperson. But we also must be careful that we do not assume every visitor and salesperson is harmless and no danger to us or our family.

Just my two cents.

Jim

AR15FAN · January 18, 2007, 01:52 PM

Ludicrous ^^^

GalilARM · January 18, 2007, 02:19 PM

What in the world is ludicrous about his post? If anything, I feel like he summed up the points of view of the majority of posters in this thread, as well as my own.

I'm just curious, but what would you have done in the situation?

So far, AR15FAN, you just seem to be trying to stir the pot and cause trouble rather than contribute to an intelligent discussion.

threegun · January 18, 2007, 03:05 PM

Galilarm,

Quote:

I'm just curious, but what would you have done in the situation?

He would have pointed his gun at the salesman when the guy forced his way into his home. If he didn't then he needs FOF training. If he didn't then he needs to question whether having a gun is a smart thing for him. He would certainly need to question his tactics. Allowing a large stranger into contact distance isn't tactically sound. Allowing said stranger to remain in contact distance after having forced his way into your home is just insane.

I feel that he is just using all the information (which wasn't available at the time things were happening) to critique your actions or he is trying to start an argument. Either way don't listen to him you did what we all would have done in that situation.

AR15FAN · January 18, 2007, 03:24 PM

If you didn't respond to me there would be no allegation of pot stirring. The whole situation boils down to you shouldn't have opened the door and let him in, period. Do whatever you want with your guns, its cool.....

Prophet · January 18, 2007, 05:27 PM

Lord this guy is nerve racking.:barf:

Capt. Charlie · January 18, 2007, 05:32 PM

You guys can't even agree to disagree.

Closed.

January 18, 2007, 01:23 PM	#77
RevJim Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2005 Location: Greenville, TX Posts: 104	Questionable Actions We seem to have spent a lot of time analyzing Galilarm's response to the unknown stranger and why it is wrong to pull a gun on an unarmed man. In hindsight, the man was unarmed and "innocent." So pulling a gun in this situation "appears" to be unwarranted. But let's look a little deeper and analyze the "salesman's" actions as well. He pushed his way into two different homes. Some people can do this with their personality: 15 minutes talking with them and you are buying whatever they offer and telling them your life story! After they leave, you call them and invite them to lunch! But other people do this through intimidation: they are bigger and intimidate people into buying what they are offering. It appears that this salesman's tactics involved getting into people's homes and forcing them to buy magazines before he would leave (not with physical force but with physical intimidation). People are afraid to try anything physical and do not want to call the police, so they endure his sales pitch, buy a magazine subscription, and then he leaves. Now, what happens if someone challenges this man? What happens if a person tells him to leave or they will throw him out? What happens if a person threatens to call the police while he is standing there? In other words, what if someone calls his bluff? Will he back down from his tactics and politely leave (thus subjecting himself to ridicule and shame)? Or will he react with physical force? This salesman twice forced his way into people's homes univited. This man twice used physical intimidation to try to scare people into buying magazines. Would you trust this man in your home? Would you trust this man alone with your wife and children? Would you trust this man alone in your living room while you went to get a pen, your checkbook, or your credit card? Remember, he entered your home univited: you have not had a chance to close the doors to hide your bigscreen plasma tv, your surround sound entertainment system, and your stereo; you have not had time to put away your business's cash that your were counting for payroll; you did not have time to warn your wife not to come out of the bedroom in her robe/towel/etc. So is this man a threat? Possibly! Surely we could all admit that this man posed a potential danger! And when Galilarm asked him to leave, the man refused! How would you get the man to leave? What reasonable, rational person barges into a home univited and refuses to leave when ordered to? What options are left? Sure, you could flip a coin: "Heads you leave now, tales I buy a magazine subscription." You could ignore the stranger in your home and go back to your business ("Hey, I am getting ready for work. Don't mind me and make yourself at home. There's Coke in the fridge and my girlfriend made brownies that are on the counter." "I am leaving for work now; make sure to lock up on your way out!"). Galilarm did not ask the salesman to come in and the salesman refused to leave when he asked him to. Can you really say the man does not present a threat? Yes, he did not have a gun. But he was acting irrationally and we do not know what his true intentions were. I do not think Galilarm is disappointed that the salesman was released and not arrested. I think he is disappointed that the salesman barged into his home and refused to leave, and then barged into his girlfriend's home and refused to leave. Yes, it could have been tragic that Galilarm shot an unarmed man who was simply trying to sell magazines. But it could have been equally tragic that the salesman cased out Galilarm's home and then returned in the middle of the night to kill him and steal his stuff. It could have been equally tragic if the salesman raped Galilarm's girlfriend and then killed her. This situation out to make us think. We must be careful not to pull a gun at every visitor or salesperson. But we also must be careful that we do not assume every visitor and salesperson is harmless and no danger to us or our family. Just my two cents. Jim

January 18, 2007, 01:52 PM	#78
AR15FAN Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2006 Posts: 179	Ludicrous ^^^ __________________ Use your most powerful weapon first, your brain.....

January 18, 2007, 03:24 PM	#81
AR15FAN Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2006 Posts: 179	If you didn't respond to me there would be no allegation of pot stirring. The whole situation boils down to you shouldn't have opened the door and let him in, period. Do whatever you want with your guns, its cool..... __________________ Use your most powerful weapon first, your brain.....

January 18, 2007, 05:32 PM	#83
Capt. Charlie Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 24, 2005 Location: Steubenville, OH Posts: 4,446	You guys can't even agree to disagree. Closed. __________________ TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does *your* post make *you?* I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie

January 18, 2007, 02:19 PM	#79
GalilARM Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2007 Location: TX Posts: 267	What in the world is ludicrous about his post? If anything, I feel like he summed up the points of view of the majority of posters in this thread, as well as my own. I'm just curious, but what would you have done in the situation? So far, AR15FAN, you just seem to be trying to stir the pot and cause trouble rather than contribute to an intelligent discussion.

January 18, 2007, 05:27 PM	#82
Prophet Junior member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: Great State of TEXAS Posts: 244	Lord this guy is nerve racking.:barf: