30-06 to 25-06 process

MikeMurf0505 · January 12, 2009, 04:54 AM

I am under the understanding that by taking a 30-06 casing (once fired or whatever), and running it through a 270 Full Length sizing die, then through a 25-06 Remington full length sizing die, you wind up with a 25-06 casing ready for neck thickness inspection, trimming, and fire forming to your personal gun.

Is this the process?

I imagine there is much in the way of case measurement to perform, to insure proper dimensions (neck wall thickness being the primary concern), and that by using 7 to 10 grains of bullseye powder, along with enough cream of wheat to fill the rest of the space), then covering the case mouth with wax or cardboard, that newly resized case can be fire formed to your gun without all the expense and wear of factory load purchase and firing.

This sounds like an excellent alternative to buying factory ammo, and shooting all those rounds just to get the cases to reload with.

Is this the process to make the 25-06 Remington case?

rickdavis81 · January 12, 2009, 05:42 AM

I take mine straight from 30-06 to 25-06. Trim them and call it good. I haven't had any problems yet. You can turn the case necks and anneal them if you want. And you can fire form them or just try different loads with your new 25-06 brass. Just make sure you don't stick them back into a 30-06. I posted this question awhile back. Got some good replys on it. You might do a search for it.

Shoney · January 12, 2009, 05:53 AM

Yes. It can be done that way.:barf:

You almost certainly would need to neck turn with military brass and some other brands. You will probably lose a % of the cases to folding of the neck brass rather than downsizing.

Then there is the cost of the dies and neck turning equipment. And the hassles of fireforming and.....

*Explative* Wouldn't you really ... really ... really be more efficient to just buy once fired 25-06 brass. There's a lot of it out there.

MikeMurf0505 · January 12, 2009, 05:54 AM

Wow, I was wondering if that was possible/advisable.
I am getting the Forster case guage in a few days, so I'll be set for measuring the walls, run out etc...
Thanks.

I'll look for your thread too.

MikeMurf0505 · January 12, 2009, 05:57 AM

I havent researched once fired yet, but thanks for the heads up.

Each way has its own good/bad sides.

I dont think there is another empirical disipline in the world like reloading. I have seen discussions between two accomplished disiples at opposite ends of the topic and both were right.
I mean, this is supposed to be science, but there is so much emotion and point of view in it too - its really rather amazing if you think abouit it.

MikeMurf0505 · January 12, 2009, 05:58 AM

If I go with once fired, I would full length size? or fire form with the bullseye/cream of wheat recipie then neck size?

Shoney · January 12, 2009, 06:01 AM

Quote:

If I go with once fired, I would full length size? or fire form with the bullseye/cream of wheat recipie then neck size?

WHY??????????

MikeMurf0505 · January 12, 2009, 06:05 AM

Once fired will be dimensionally off.
I guess the point is to measure the OAL, to insure it is not too long and use it as is with some cleaning, neck sizing, repriming?

Shoney · January 12, 2009, 06:18 AM

I suppose you can do it that way, but accuracy wise, most people will never be able to tell the difference between the fireformed once fired and the full length resized once fired.

Test it out with 10 of each.

MikeMurf0505 · January 12, 2009, 06:28 AM

Good idea.

Testing is the next most important element after uniformity.
My Wife thinks I am trying to be Batman or something with all this science, but she never shot a wood chuck at 500 yards either!
HAHAHA

Shoney · January 12, 2009, 06:32 AM

Then out of curiosity, how are you going to empirically make sure the volumes of the cases are unvarying?

MikeMurf0505 · January 12, 2009, 06:38 AM

Great question.
I think we have a finite parameter set that we can work within.

If case length is correct (measured from both head to mouth and head to shoulder. volume SHOULD BE a given.
Other than developing a specific gravity parameter for a non explosive media to fill the ceses with then weigh, it may not be possible to accurately volume test the cases.
I think there is only so much work that actually pays off in terms of results for center of impact.

Do you measure volume?

Shoney · January 12, 2009, 06:41 AM

Yes, I use a buret.

MikeMurf0505 · January 12, 2009, 06:50 AM

How do you ensure case interior parity for contaminants/foreign matter?

Shoney · January 12, 2009, 07:18 AM

I tumble in 40/60 mix walnut to corn, use a quick acid bath of dilute phosphoric acid/dichromate solution, to remove any powder residue, wash.

MikeMurf0505 · January 12, 2009, 07:22 AM

Now THATS parity!
Batman would be proud.

Shoney · January 12, 2009, 07:32 AM

Do you feel your chimerical grammar smack of unprepossessingly conversance?

MikeMurf0505 · January 12, 2009, 07:39 AM

In the words of the great Crusty "YEAH...THATS what I did...."
HAhaha
I assume your asking if I am mocking you or something, no. I never do that, I just have a good sense of humor.

I guess for me, there is a point at which additional efforts reduce productivity in any tangible way. Who knows, maybe if I get good enough I'll get one of those too - right now I'm still working out seating and run out procedural aspects of my methods.

Scorch · January 12, 2009, 01:56 PM

2 ways to get 25-06 brass:
1- Get once-fired 30-06 brass. Acid wash. Measure internal volume. Sort. Lube. Form to 25-06 in forming die. Turn or ream necks. Size in 25-06 dies. Inspect brass, throw out creased necks, buckled shoulders, etc. Mark bases with Sharpie so you won't fire the new cases in the wrong rifle. Reload as usual.

OR

2- Buy 25-06 brass. Size in 25-06 dies. Inspect. Reload as usual.

MikeMurf0505 · January 12, 2009, 02:08 PM

There is alot of different views of the processes, and I think at my stage of knowledge I should stick with the factory new cases.

Do you fire form the factory new with a 7 to 10 grain charge of bullseye, fill with cream of wheat, top with cardboard/wax, and fire form?

CPTMurdoc30 · January 12, 2009, 03:29 PM

I have made thousands of 30-06 cases into 25-06 and various other inventions of my own.

Lube them good and have at it.

MikeMurf0505 · January 12, 2009, 03:57 PM

I'll give it a try.
Thanks.

WCW · January 12, 2009, 04:02 PM

30-06 cases will come up a little short in length when resized to 25-06. I always preferred to use .270 brass when I could get it because I don’t own a 270, and the length will be closer.

You will end up with a little bump in the shoulder area that is there to provide proper headspace for the initial firing, and I use a regular mid power loading for that with a bullet and powder combination I have found accurate in the past. That will fire-form the case perfectly, and you might as well shoot something accurate for the initial firing anyway. I‘ve never encountered brass that made neck turning necessary for my rifle, and I never used military brass either.

It just depends on what sort of reason you have for necking down brass. Unless you get a smoking‘ deal, you might as well but the real thing.

MikeMurf0505 · January 12, 2009, 04:16 PM

My thoughts are that 270 and 30-06 brass are very much more available than 25-06 and with the dies on hand already, why not.

As long as I can produce a good finished product, I want to explore the option.

I know I have the talent to make good cases, buret not withstanding (I really dont get the whole volume querstion to begin with), and its cheaper than buying factory brass which needs to be formed anyway.

January 12, 2009, 04:54 AM	#1
MikeMurf0505 Junior member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: Houston Posts: 64	30-06 to 25-06 process I am under the understanding that by taking a 30-06 casing (once fired or whatever), and running it through a 270 Full Length sizing die, then through a 25-06 Remington full length sizing die, you wind up with a 25-06 casing ready for neck thickness inspection, trimming, and fire forming to your personal gun. Is this the process? I imagine there is much in the way of case measurement to perform, to insure proper dimensions (neck wall thickness being the primary concern), and that by using 7 to 10 grains of bullseye powder, along with enough cream of wheat to fill the rest of the space), then covering the case mouth with wax or cardboard, that newly resized case can be fire formed to your gun without all the expense and wear of factory load purchase and firing. This sounds like an excellent alternative to buying factory ammo, and shooting all those rounds just to get the cases to reload with. Is this the process to make the 25-06 Remington case?

January 12, 2009, 05:53 AM	#3
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	Yes. It can be done that way.:barf: You almost certainly would need to neck turn with military brass and some other brands. You will probably lose a % of the cases to folding of the neck brass rather than downsizing. Then there is the cost of the dies and neck turning equipment. And the hassles of fireforming and..... Explative Wouldn't you really ... really ... really be more efficient to just buy once fired 25-06 brass. There's a lot of it out there. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

January 12, 2009, 06:18 AM	#9
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	I suppose you can do it that way, but accuracy wise, most people will never be able to tell the difference between the fireformed once fired and the full length resized once fired. Test it out with 10 of each. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

January 12, 2009, 06:32 AM	#11
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	Then out of curiosity, how are you going to empirically make sure the volumes of the cases are unvarying? __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

January 12, 2009, 06:41 AM	#13
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	Yes, I use a buret. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

January 12, 2009, 05:42 AM	#2
rickdavis81 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 398	I take mine straight from 30-06 to 25-06. Trim them and call it good. I haven't had any problems yet. You can turn the case necks and anneal them if you want. And you can fire form them or just try different loads with your new 25-06 brass. Just make sure you don't stick them back into a 30-06. I posted this question awhile back. Got some good replys on it. You might do a search for it.

January 12, 2009, 05:54 AM	#4
MikeMurf0505 Junior member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: Houston Posts: 64	Wow, I was wondering if that was possible/advisable. I am getting the Forster case guage in a few days, so I'll be set for measuring the walls, run out etc... Thanks. I'll look for your thread too.

January 12, 2009, 05:57 AM	#5
MikeMurf0505 Junior member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: Houston Posts: 64	I havent researched once fired yet, but thanks for the heads up. Each way has its own good/bad sides. I dont think there is another empirical disipline in the world like reloading. I have seen discussions between two accomplished disiples at opposite ends of the topic and both were right. I mean, this is supposed to be science, but there is so much emotion and point of view in it too - its really rather amazing if you think abouit it.

January 12, 2009, 05:58 AM	#6
MikeMurf0505 Junior member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: Houston Posts: 64	If I go with once fired, I would full length size? or fire form with the bullseye/cream of wheat recipie then neck size?

January 12, 2009, 06:05 AM	#8
MikeMurf0505 Junior member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: Houston Posts: 64	Once fired will be dimensionally off. I guess the point is to measure the OAL, to insure it is not too long and use it as is with some cleaning, neck sizing, repriming?

January 12, 2009, 06:28 AM	#10
MikeMurf0505 Junior member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: Houston Posts: 64	Good idea. Testing is the next most important element after uniformity. My Wife thinks I am trying to be Batman or something with all this science, but she never shot a wood chuck at 500 yards either! HAHAHA

January 12, 2009, 06:38 AM	#12
MikeMurf0505 Junior member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: Houston Posts: 64	Great question. I think we have a finite parameter set that we can work within. If case length is correct (measured from both head to mouth and head to shoulder. volume SHOULD BE a given. Other than developing a specific gravity parameter for a non explosive media to fill the ceses with then weigh, it may not be possible to accurately volume test the cases. I think there is only so much work that actually pays off in terms of results for center of impact. Do you measure volume?

January 12, 2009, 06:50 AM	#14
MikeMurf0505 Junior member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: Houston Posts: 64	How do you ensure case interior parity for contaminants/foreign matter?

January 12, 2009, 07:18 AM	#15
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	I tumble in 40/60 mix walnut to corn, use a quick acid bath of dilute phosphoric acid/dichromate solution, to remove any powder residue, wash. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

January 12, 2009, 07:22 AM	#16
MikeMurf0505 Junior member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: Houston Posts: 64	Now THATS parity! Batman would be proud.

January 12, 2009, 07:32 AM	#17
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	Do you feel your chimerical grammar smack of unprepossessingly conversance? __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

January 12, 2009, 07:39 AM	#18
MikeMurf0505 Junior member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: Houston Posts: 64	In the words of the great Crusty "YEAH...THATS what I did...." HAhaha I assume your asking if I am mocking you or something, no. I never do that, I just have a good sense of humor. I guess for me, there is a point at which additional efforts reduce productivity in any tangible way. Who knows, maybe if I get good enough I'll get one of those too - right now I'm still working out seating and run out procedural aspects of my methods.

January 12, 2009, 01:56 PM	#19
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	2 ways to get 25-06 brass: 1- Get once-fired 30-06 brass. Acid wash. Measure internal volume. Sort. Lube. Form to 25-06 in forming die. Turn or ream necks. Size in 25-06 dies. Inspect brass, throw out creased necks, buckled shoulders, etc. Mark bases with Sharpie so you won't fire the new cases in the wrong rifle. Reload as usual. OR 2- Buy 25-06 brass. Size in 25-06 dies. Inspect. Reload as usual. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

January 12, 2009, 02:08 PM	#20
MikeMurf0505 Junior member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: Houston Posts: 64	There is alot of different views of the processes, and I think at my stage of knowledge I should stick with the factory new cases. Do you fire form the factory new with a 7 to 10 grain charge of bullseye, fill with cream of wheat, top with cardboard/wax, and fire form?

January 12, 2009, 03:29 PM	#21
CPTMurdoc30 Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2008 Location: Stafford VA Posts: 969	I have made thousands of 30-06 cases into 25-06 and various other inventions of my own. Lube them good and have at it. __________________ Solving Virginia's Ground Hog problems 50gr at a time.....

January 12, 2009, 03:57 PM	#22
MikeMurf0505 Junior member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: Houston Posts: 64	I'll give it a try. Thanks.

January 12, 2009, 04:02 PM	#23
WCW Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2007 Posts: 132	30-06 cases will come up a little short in length when resized to 25-06. I always preferred to use .270 brass when I could get it because I don’t own a 270, and the length will be closer. You will end up with a little bump in the shoulder area that is there to provide proper headspace for the initial firing, and I use a regular mid power loading for that with a bullet and powder combination I have found accurate in the past. That will fire-form the case perfectly, and you might as well shoot something accurate for the initial firing anyway. I‘ve never encountered brass that made neck turning necessary for my rifle, and I never used military brass either. It just depends on what sort of reason you have for necking down brass. Unless you get a smoking‘ deal, you might as well but the real thing.

January 12, 2009, 04:16 PM	#24
MikeMurf0505 Junior member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: Houston Posts: 64	My thoughts are that 270 and 30-06 brass are very much more available than 25-06 and with the dies on hand already, why not. As long as I can produce a good finished product, I want to explore the option. I know I have the talent to make good cases, buret not withstanding (I really dont get the whole volume querstion to begin with), and its cheaper than buying factory brass which needs to be formed anyway.