|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
December 28, 2012, 11:37 AM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 6,501
|
Purpose of holster tilt?
Having perused books on fast draw, I have not seen anything other than comfort when seated for having a forward tilt (as in "FBI cant") in a strong-side holster rather than vertical. Is there supposedly some drawing or other advantage for the tilt, other than comfort while seated? Civilian only, not concerned about police specific issues.
|
December 28, 2012, 12:03 PM | #2 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 24, 2010
Location: Central Louisiana
Posts: 3,137
|
Quote:
I find a forward tilt comfortable when I'm carrying, especially as I like to carry at the 3:30 or 4:00 position, just barely behind what most folks call a 3:00 strong-side carry. Thankfully, most good OWB holsters allow for the user to adjust the tilt to accommodate their desires. Everyone's body type is just a little bit different and being able to adjust your holster to your body is a big plus. |
|
December 28, 2012, 01:16 PM | #3 |
Junior member
Join Date: May 1, 2010
Posts: 5,797
|
FBI cant/straight up/cross draw.....
Some armed professionals & concealed license holders like the comfort or smooth draw with a FBI/canted holster. Newer polymer & Kydex holsters like the Blackhawk SERPA & Blade-tech line allow minor changes to the same holster for drawing or comfort.
I used the FBI cant with my M&P full size 9x19mm in a SERPA and honestly didn't like it as much as the standard or vertical carry. I have large hips & the M&P pistol looked a bit like John Wayne in some of his later westerns, . It may work better for concealed holsters or when worn; behind the hip. I sometimes wear cross-draw style rigs and they work well with angled draws. I wouldn't suggest that method for regular duty or open-carry positions. Clyde PS: If you ever see the old crime drama; Sharkey's Machine(1981) with Burt Reynolds, he wears a wierd leather FBI cant holster but in a crossdraw for his full size 1911a1 model .45acp. In real life, it'd be a awkward draw to use for a large pistol. |
December 28, 2012, 01:36 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 21, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 202
|
I've found that (for me) the FBI cant has a much smoother draw. I can more or less just sweep my hand forward into a good firing position, and "grab the gun on the way", rather than pull it up and then forward...if that makes sense.
Obviously YMMV, but those are my findings. I've also found that when wearing my Glock 21 IWB the cant makes it easier to conceal (the grip doesn't stick out when I bend over, since it's more vertical with my torso, so it eliminates that boat-sail look) |
December 28, 2012, 01:49 PM | #5 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: IOWA
Posts: 8,783
|
Combat Shooting
Quote:
If you have had any training, what did the instructor teach? Be Prepared and; Be Safe !!!
__________________
'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing. |
|
December 28, 2012, 02:04 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
|
I find the forward cant conceals larger guns more efficiently, and also makes it easier to draw when seated - for instance, when driving.
|
December 28, 2012, 04:07 PM | #7 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 6,501
|
Quote:
|
|
December 28, 2012, 04:12 PM | #8 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 6,501
|
Quote:
So far from the posts, it would seem that if a person's body had a slight inward curve above the hip, the canted gun would fit into it better for both comfort and concealment. Anything else? |
|
December 28, 2012, 07:08 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 10, 2012
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 2,989
|
At my age, a draw of straight-up cramps my arm whereas the forward cant makes a more smooth "sweep" when drawing. But then, maybe that's from years of practice.
Bob Wright |
December 28, 2012, 07:44 PM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 12, 2006
Location: NKY
Posts: 12,463
|
Quote:
Anyway, the cant allows you to draw and present in one fluid motion. At least that is my experience.
__________________
"He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson |
|
December 28, 2012, 08:29 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 4, 2001
Posts: 7,478
|
One major reason for the classic FBI tilt was that the FBI taught using the crouch stance in which the shooter goes into a crouch position.
With the body in a crouch, the holster is well positioned for a better draw. I once watched as a local FBI agent taught some deputies back in the 1960's. He demonstrated lifting the left leg, moving it a couple of feet to the left, then just squatting. This tilted his upper body forward, which put the FBI tilt holster in a perfect position for the draw. The FBI tilt also works well when sitting in a car and conceals better then an upright holster. |
December 28, 2012, 08:35 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 6,501
|
After reading Paw Paw's post, it occurred to me that I did not take into account my frame of reference. For my purposes (my frame of reference), I was thinking in terms of my preferred position for fast draw, 3:00 or slightly forward. In that position a forward cant requires me to "break" my wrist, so I prefer a vertical orientation. But, for concealment purposes, people may position their holsters to the rear of the 3:00 position, and doing so, I can see where having a forward cant (instead of my preferred vertical), would be a more natural position.
It would seem that there are physical factors that dictate where a person would want to hang their holstered guns. When I was young, I liked the "Mexican carry", of sticking a 1911 between the butt and the hip bone with a slight forward cant...especically answering the door at night. However, with arthritis locking my shoulder joints, reaching back that far is only done with some difficulty. It is a shame...that carry with a 1911 seemed to be made for one another (in some circumstances). |
December 28, 2012, 08:43 PM | #13 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 6,501
|
Quote:
|
|
December 28, 2012, 08:48 PM | #14 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 6,501
|
Quote:
|
|
December 28, 2012, 10:27 PM | #15 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: December 24, 2010
Location: Central Louisiana
Posts: 3,137
|
Quote:
All police, except military police, are civilians, that is, we're subject to civil law. Military police are, of course, subject to the UCMJ. That goes back to Robert Peel's principals of police work, which says, in part: Quote:
|
||
December 29, 2012, 01:59 PM | #16 |
Junior member
Join Date: May 1, 2010
Posts: 5,797
|
off topic; sworn vs non-sworn....
Sworn LE officers are NOT private citizens IMO. They meet the same legal requirements as other citizens in the general public but they also took a sworn oath to uphold the law, enforce the law(s) and to make arrests when they are required to do so.
Cops are required to make arrests & to enforce the law, private citizens are not. Citizens can not witness a crime & chase someone down, then make an arrest. That is why LE jobs are called public trust positions. They have shown the ability to have morals & ethics. Any cop who sees a crime & says; "so what" or "I'm off duty." shouldn't be a sworn LE officer, IMO. All sworn LE officers should wear a badge & a sidearm too, IMO. A few years ago, I saw a small group of homicide detectives from a county sheriffs office at a crime scene. None of the plainclothes detectives had badges or weapons. That wouldn't happen if I were sheriff, . Clyde |
December 30, 2012, 06:52 AM | #17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 31, 1999
Location: Middle Georgia, USA
Posts: 13,198
|
Quote:
**************** BTW, what happened to the topic, Purpose of holster tilt? ('Looks like I allowed myself to get sucked in the off topic discussion too.) Let's go to Handguns: General ... and maybe get back on topic, or start your own. Moving. Last edited by Bud Helms; December 30, 2012 at 07:05 AM. |
|
December 30, 2012, 08:34 AM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 15, 2007
Posts: 1,215
|
I have long legs, long arms and a short torso. I also wear my belt on my waist where it belongs.
If I wear a straight drop holster, I have to bend my elbow unnaturally to get the muzzle to clear the holster. A forward cant allows me to bend my elbow less and make a more natural draw.
__________________
To a much greater extent than most mechanical devices, firearms are terribly unforgiving of any overconfidence, complacency or negligence. |
December 30, 2012, 09:42 AM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 5, 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 481
|
I've looked into this topic before also and I haven't found any real clear answers on this, as it relates to speed of draw. I've read Jordan and John Bianchi's book on gunleather. The topic is discussed slightly but I found no real answers.
I think that if you carry a pistol behind the hip, there is no doubt that the cant forward makes it easier to aquire the grip. Additionally, if you have a longer barrel and ride in a car all day, I think the cant forward is advantageous for both draw and comfort. One other point is that if you carry a longer barreled firearm, like a 5" revolver, I think that not only is the pistol more concealable since the hoslter doesn't hang as low when canted, (plus butt is less likely to protrude back), but I think that you can clear the barrel quicker from the front of the holster, since when canted, the front opening is lower. I don't think you have to pull the pistol as high up to clear leather. |
December 30, 2012, 10:01 AM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 3, 2011
Location: to close to other houses
Posts: 1,176
|
For me, when carrying an auto (especially a full sized one) behind the hip....a forward canted holster is the only way to go. I lugged a Gov. size 1911 in a Desantis speed scabbard for years. Very comfortable, completely concealed under a regular T shirt and a smooth, quick draw. Perfect for carry in formal attire also
|
December 30, 2012, 10:02 AM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 30, 2011
Posts: 686
|
I prefer a forward cant in my strong side carry. Horizontal chest rig is best for combat imo. I don't care for cross draw at all. I think its purely for show and has limited functionality. I prefer a lumbar or weak side forward cant for a back up.
The forward cant allows the barrel to clear the holster with less vertical lift making presentation quicker. Puts the grip at a more natural angle to grasp when carrying behind the right hip. 4 o clock aprox. That's why its my preference. |
December 30, 2012, 12:28 PM | #22 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 1, 2000
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 8,518
|
Quote:
|
|
December 30, 2012, 12:33 PM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 31, 2005
Posts: 372
|
FBI = wearing suits. A forward till may also make it easier to draw wearing a suit. Also tucks the pistol butt into the body more that vertical.
|
December 30, 2012, 11:38 PM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 4, 2008
Location: N E Ohio
Posts: 221
|
For me the cant is more about weight distribution. With a three and a half inch barrel 1911, the weight of the grip with full magazine in a vertical weighs more than the slide and makes the gun feel top heavy almost like it will fall out of the holster backwards.
With the holster canted the weight is distributed vertically, and balances on my hip better.
__________________
Don't do anything Stupid. And don't let Stupid do anything to you. |
December 30, 2012, 11:56 PM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 9, 2011
Location: Land of the Free
Posts: 2,834
|
When you are driving with CCW, sometimes it bumps seat, so tilt forward helps.
|
|
|