AOW and shotguns.... - Page 2

Super-Dave · March 13, 2008, 09:12 AM

Okay what if you took a virgin remington .410 reciever. and A rifled barrel that was made for a .45 long colt. and a magazine tube enhanced to feed the .45 long colt. Put a pistol grip on it. Can you then sell it as a pistol?

I personally would rather have the above configuration in .44 magnum or maybe .500

It would be cool, but also has a legitimate anti bear/cougar or hunting purpose.

Also I would rather fire it than a use one of those huge revolvers like the joker used on the original batman.

Super-Dave · March 13, 2008, 09:15 AM

If the pump action makes it an AOW what if it was a semi auto? Can any of the previous configurations make it a "pistol"?

cabbynate · March 13, 2008, 09:45 AM

Well how about this: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=94520758
Looks like fun to me.....

kozak6 · March 13, 2008, 08:52 PM

The pump action forend doesn't matter as long as it's not a pistol grip.

Super-Dave, if a company produced a rifled pump action .45 Colt pistol (from a virgin reciever) that just happened to have a chamber that would accept and safely fire .410 shotshells, then it should be a pistol.

Hkmp5sd · March 13, 2008, 08:56 PM

The problem with that theory is that "pump action" requires two hands to operate. If it takes two hands to operate, by definition it cannot be a pistol/handgun.

David Hineline · March 14, 2008, 12:12 AM

Any other weapons (AOW's) are a number of things; smooth bore
pistols, any pistol with more than one grip, (but see below) gadget
type guns (cane gun, pen gun) and shoulder fired weapons with both
rifled and smooth bore barrels between 12" and 18", that must be
manually reloaded (see discussion below).

The AOW classification related to more than one vertical pistol grip, nothing to do with how many hands it takes to operate it.

Plenty of handguns have horizontal grips. It's only a 90 degree angled grip that is a problem.

Even then the ATF allows Tommy Gun Pistols with a vertical grip, because they say so.

Hkmp5sd · March 14, 2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

§ 921 Definitions.

(29) The term "handgun" means—

(A) a firearm which has a short
stock and is designed to be held and
fired by the use of a single hand;

How exactly do you operate the pump action with one hand?

A semi-auto action might make the pistol description. Just another gun like the AR-15 pistol or SP-89 only chambered in .45LC. However, if you have to manipulate a pump to shoot it, it is going to require two hands. Ever seen any other "pump action" handgun before?

Bill DeShivs · March 14, 2008, 12:35 PM

You can't OPERATE a bolt action or single shot pistol with one hand either- but you can shoot them one handed. You can't OPERATE A REVOLVER OR SEMI-AUTO WITH ONE HAND EITHER-but you can shoot them one handed.
Notice that it says "held and fired", not operated.

Hkmp5sd · March 14, 2008, 12:48 PM

Doesn't matter our opinion anyway. Gotta have that little note from ATF to make it so. At least until they change their opinion.

March 13, 2008, 09:12 AM	#26
Super-Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 795	Okay what if you took a virgin remington .410 reciever. and A rifled barrel that was made for a .45 long colt. and a magazine tube enhanced to feed the .45 long colt. Put a pistol grip on it. Can you then sell it as a pistol? I personally would rather have the above configuration in .44 magnum or maybe .500 It would be cool, but also has a legitimate anti bear/cougar or hunting purpose. Also I would rather fire it than a use one of those huge revolvers like the joker used on the original batman. __________________ If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. George Orwell

March 13, 2008, 09:15 AM	#27
Super-Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 795	If the pump action makes it an AOW what if it was a semi auto? Can any of the previous configurations make it a "pistol"? __________________ If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. George Orwell

March 13, 2008, 09:45 AM	#28
cabbynate Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Las Vegas Nevada Posts: 174	AOW. Well how about this: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=94520758 Looks like fun to me..... __________________ FEAR NO EVIL

March 14, 2008, 12:12 AM	#31
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	It's a handgun Any other weapons (AOW's) are a number of things; smooth bore pistols, any pistol with more than one grip, (but see below) gadget type guns (cane gun, pen gun) and shoulder fired weapons with both rifled and smooth bore barrels between 12" and 18", that must be manually reloaded (see discussion below). The AOW classification related to more than one vertical pistol grip, nothing to do with how many hands it takes to operate it. Plenty of handguns have horizontal grips. It's only a 90 degree angled grip that is a problem. Even then the ATF allows Tommy Gun Pistols with a vertical grip, because they say so.

March 14, 2008, 12:35 PM	#33
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	You can't OPERATE a bolt action or single shot pistol with one hand either- but you can shoot them one handed. You can't OPERATE A REVOLVER OR SEMI-AUTO WITH ONE HAND EITHER-but you can shoot them one handed. Notice that it says "held and fired", not operated. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

March 13, 2008, 08:52 PM	#29
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	The pump action forend doesn't matter as long as it's not a pistol grip. Super-Dave, if a company produced a rifled pump action .45 Colt pistol (from a virgin reciever) that just happened to have a chamber that would accept and safely fire .410 shotshells, then it should be a pistol.

March 13, 2008, 08:56 PM	#30
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	The problem with that theory is that "pump action" requires two hands to operate. If it takes two hands to operate, by definition it cannot be a pistol/handgun.

March 14, 2008, 12:48 PM	#34
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	Doesn't matter our opinion anyway. Gotta have that little note from ATF to make it so. At least until they change their opinion.