Hot 38 special or mid range .357 loads

old bear · May 31, 2010, 03:01 PM

Hot 38 special – mid range .357 load.

I’m not a hand loader nor will I ever be, so from time to time I need to rely on the expertise of some one who is.

I recently spoke with a reloader, he comes highly recommended, and is willing to do some reloading for me at a very fair price. I asked for the equivalent of a hot 38 special or light .357 load. He suggested using .357 cases, CCI primers, and 5.4 grains of Bull’s-eye, with a 158 Grain hard cast SWC. This load will be used in K and N frame Smith and Wesson handguns.

Do any of you have any comments or suggestions about this?

Thanks all

vladan · May 31, 2010, 03:07 PM

That load is over the max for .38 but as long as you keep it in .357 cases and shoot it from .357 revolver you'll have nice and light .357 load

Lavid2002 · May 31, 2010, 03:34 PM

I wouldnt ask for anything "Hot" from another persons reloads. Hot reloads should be worked up little by little in your gun.

I would go with the safer, .357 load if I were you.

old bear · May 31, 2010, 04:04 PM

Gentlemen, thanks for the words of wisdom, the only reason I requested HOT 38 special as I will only use these loads in .357 revolvers.

Again thanks

Lavid2002 · May 31, 2010, 04:12 PM

Got it got it

No problem, good luck with the reloads.

-Dave

P.S. Keep an open mind to DIY reloading...saves a good bit of the green backs

-Dave

oneounceload · May 31, 2010, 04:20 PM

Unless your friend has the proper permits and licenses, selling reloads like that is a big no-no......

GP100man · May 31, 2010, 07:52 PM

Yep sellin reloads require 006 FFLs & liability ins.

Just to sell components require a 006 FFL.

Last fall there was big hoplas of threads on the subject, just do a search & you`ll see laws & such quoted.

Ksmoker · May 31, 2010, 07:56 PM

Cash talks guys, y'all have never done a strictly cash deal ????

oneounceload · May 31, 2010, 08:04 PM

Cash talks and the Feds bust............one little "oops" with one of the reloads and it's amazing how friendships go awry..........not worth a trip to the Graybar hotel

TOM RENZO · May 31, 2010, 08:22 PM

Gentlemen, thanks for the words of wisdom, the only reason I requested HOT 38 special as I will only use these loads in .357 revolvers.

This is in my opinion not a good idea. When you use 38 ammo in a 357 chamber the shorter case can burn the remaining chamber in the revolver. Constantly using 38 specials in a 357 cab damage the cylinder with burn etching. I know i will get all kinds of feedback on this but its true. You are better off using a down loaded 357 in a revolver so the case is deeper in the cylinder. I have seen many a 357 with perminent burn problems in the cylinder because of a constant diet os 38 specials. Ok now you can beat me up.

Hey_Allen · June 1, 2010, 02:40 AM

If the few of you who are commenting on the problems with hot loads in a 38 case notice the recommended load that his friend gave him, it specified it was going to be used in a 357 case.

Essentially, he's going to have a powder puff 357 load, rather than a hot 38 load. No possible way to put the load in a 38 chambered revolver, where it would actually be above specified pressure levels.
From what I've picked up reading here, he should be fine as long as the powder isn't sensitive to light charges at that point.

That all being said, I'm with the recommendation to start loading for yourself as well. By doing that, you get the satisfaction of having made your own, and you know that they're all done the same way. (You also don't have someone else to possibly have to chase down and beat about the head for a messed up load, as the loader is right there at hand...

)

edit: Ok, I had to re-read the initial post before I picked up that he was considering two options.

Don't load hot 38 loads beyond the listed charges! Some revolvers may tolerate them, but if you have one that doesn't...
I know I would be especially cautious of trying it in any of the lightweight new guns. New metallurgy is all fine and well, up to the point that the manufacturer has decided to reduce weight by taking full advantage of it and reduced the mass to the minimum for the rated cartridge.

I'm not holding the book in my hands, but aren't 38 special limits around 18,000 CUP, versus 357 mag being around 41,000 CUP?

TOM RENZO · June 1, 2010, 04:26 AM

Confused!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you read post 4 he says he wants the load in a 38 case and shoot it in a 357 frame???????????? His initial post was recommended to use a 357 CASE. Now i am really confused. My suggestion is to start this post over and hash through what the HECK this guy is planning on doing. Sounds like a BOONDOGGLE.

Remember

Shoot Safe Shoot Often And Share The Sport

AlaskaMike · June 1, 2010, 02:01 PM

Boondoggle? I'm not sure where you're getting confused. This is all totally straightforward. He asked for comments and suggestions regarding a recommended .357 load using Bullseye. Several people have confirmed that it'll be perfectly fine. How is that confusing?

zxcvbob · June 1, 2010, 02:27 PM

That's great that your friend is gonna show you how to reload and is telling you what components to get. <wink, wink>

Alliant's published maximum load for 158 grain SWC's in .357 Magnum is 6.5 grains of Bullseye, with an overall length of 1.58". It's a hot load; compares favorably to using Herco or even Blue Dot.

Their maximum for .38 Special +P is 3.8 grains @ 1.42", but that's only 17.2k psi which is kind of low to be calling it +P (but the ballistics is good anyway because BE is a great powder.)

5.4 grains of BE using .357 brass should be a good load. You also might try Red Dot powder; somewhere between 4.0 and 5.0 grains (5.5 is max)

JakeSnakeSlim · June 1, 2010, 03:45 PM

I have been thinking about a load of 6 grains of bullseye with 158 grain hard cast lead round nose flat points (357 cases) for my 357 Henry rifle. Would this be a good load for 50-75 yard target shooting with this rifle and to minimize leading. I load lots of 38's with bullseye for my handguns but don't want to shoot 38's in the 357 rifle. It would save me buying another brand of powder as about 200 hundred rounds of 357 would be all I would shoot a year.

WESHOOT2 · June 2, 2010, 09:44 AM

I am personally against the use of Bullseye for any high-performance loads; I recommend something 'slower' on the burn-rate chart (Universal, Power Pistol, 3N37, HS6).

FWIW, one is NOT required to have liability insurance with their FFL06. One MAY reload for another without incurring Federal tax liability IF one reloads the customer's used cases ONLY.
Selling components is not regulated.
State and local tax liabilities may still be incurred.

JakeSnakeSlim · June 2, 2010, 10:47 AM

Thanks Weshoot

I'll look into it further. I guess it would not break the bank to buy a second powder and do it right. Just want a mid velocity "standard" load for the 357 Henry rifle shooting that will produce the least chance of leading with the 158 g hard cast round. Would appreciate any further advice from all with this type of shooting experience out of the carbine.

Thank You

WESHOOT2 · June 2, 2010, 08:50 PM

I suggest Hodgdon Universal under that 158g; safe for medium+ velocities, economical charge weights, easy metering, 'clean', available, plenty of published data, high accuracy potential.

May 31, 2010, 03:01 PM	#1
old bear Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Not close enough to the beach Posts: 1,477	Hot 38 special or mid range .357 loads Hot 38 special – mid range .357 load. I’m not a hand loader nor will I ever be, so from time to time I need to rely on the expertise of some one who is. I recently spoke with a reloader, he comes highly recommended, and is willing to do some reloading for me at a very fair price. I asked for the equivalent of a hot 38 special or light .357 load. He suggested using .357 cases, CCI primers, and 5.4 grains of Bull’s-eye, with a 158 Grain hard cast SWC. This load will be used in K and N frame Smith and Wesson handguns. Do any of you have any comments or suggestions about this? Thanks all

May 31, 2010, 03:34 PM	#3
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	I wouldnt ask for anything "Hot" from another persons reloads. Hot reloads should be worked up little by little in your gun. I would go with the safer, .357 load if I were you. __________________ Math>Grammar

May 31, 2010, 04:04 PM	#4
old bear Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Not close enough to the beach Posts: 1,477	Thanks! Gentlemen, thanks for the words of wisdom, the only reason I requested HOT 38 special as I will only use these loads in .357 revolvers. Again thanks

May 31, 2010, 04:12 PM	#5
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	Got it got it No problem, good luck with the reloads. -Dave P.S. Keep an open mind to DIY reloading...saves a good bit of the green backs -Dave __________________ Math>Grammar

May 31, 2010, 07:52 PM	#7
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	Yep sellin reloads require 006 FFLs & liability ins. Just to sell components require a 006 FFL. Last fall there was big hoplas of threads on the subject, just do a search & you`ll see laws & such quoted. __________________ GP100man

May 31, 2010, 03:07 PM	#2
vladan Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Central Florida Posts: 813	That load is over the max for .38 but as long as you keep it in .357 cases and shoot it from .357 revolver you'll have nice and light .357 load

May 31, 2010, 04:20 PM	#6
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Unless your friend has the proper permits and licenses, selling reloads like that is a big no-no......

May 31, 2010, 07:56 PM	#8
Ksmoker Member Join Date: December 6, 2009 Location: NE Kansas Posts: 74	reloads Cash talks guys, y'all have never done a strictly cash deal ????

May 31, 2010, 08:04 PM	#9
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Cash talks and the Feds bust............one little "oops" with one of the reloads and it's amazing how friendships go awry..........not worth a trip to the Graybar hotel

May 31, 2010, 08:22 PM	#10
TOM RENZO Member Join Date: May 24, 2010 Posts: 61	Gentlemen, thanks for the words of wisdom, the only reason I requested HOT 38 special as I will only use these loads in .357 revolvers. This is in my opinion not a good idea. When you use 38 ammo in a 357 chamber the shorter case can burn the remaining chamber in the revolver. Constantly using 38 specials in a 357 cab damage the cylinder with burn etching. I know i will get all kinds of feedback on this but its true. You are better off using a down loaded 357 in a revolver so the case is deeper in the cylinder. I have seen many a 357 with perminent burn problems in the cylinder because of a constant diet os 38 specials. Ok now you can beat me up.

June 1, 2010, 02:40 AM	#11
Hey_Allen Member Join Date: October 14, 2008 Location: NW Washington Posts: 39	If the few of you who are commenting on the problems with hot loads in a 38 case notice the recommended load that his friend gave him, it specified it was going to be used in a 357 case. Essentially, he's going to have a powder puff 357 load, rather than a hot 38 load. No possible way to put the load in a 38 chambered revolver, where it would actually be above specified pressure levels. From what I've picked up reading here, he should be fine as long as the powder isn't sensitive to light charges at that point. That all being said, I'm with the recommendation to start loading for yourself as well. By doing that, you get the satisfaction of having made your own, and you know that they're all done the same way. (You also don't have someone else to possibly have to chase down and beat about the head for a messed up load, as the loader is right there at hand... ) edit: Ok, I had to re-read the initial post before I picked up that he was considering two options. Don't load hot 38 loads beyond the listed charges! Some revolvers may tolerate them, but if you have one that doesn't... I know I would be especially cautious of trying it in any of the lightweight new guns. New metallurgy is all fine and well, up to the point that the manufacturer has decided to reduce weight by taking full advantage of it and reduced the mass to the minimum for the rated cartridge. I'm not holding the book in my hands, but aren't 38 special limits around 18,000 CUP, versus 357 mag being around 41,000 CUP? Last edited by Hey_Allen; June 1, 2010 at 02:48 AM.

June 1, 2010, 04:26 AM	#12
TOM RENZO Member Join Date: May 24, 2010 Posts: 61	Confused!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you read post 4 he says he wants the load in a 38 case and shoot it in a 357 frame???????????? His initial post was recommended to use a 357 CASE. Now i am really confused. My suggestion is to start this post over and hash through what the HECK this guy is planning on doing. Sounds like a BOONDOGGLE. Remember Shoot Safe Shoot Often And Share The Sport

June 1, 2010, 02:01 PM	#13
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	Boondoggle? I'm not sure where you're getting confused. This is all totally straightforward. He asked for comments and suggestions regarding a recommended .357 load using Bullseye. Several people have confirmed that it'll be perfectly fine. How is that confusing?

June 1, 2010, 02:27 PM	#14
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	That's great that your friend is gonna show you how to reload and is telling you what components to get. <wink, wink> Alliant's published maximum load for 158 grain SWC's in .357 Magnum is 6.5 grains of Bullseye, with an overall length of 1.58". It's a hot load; compares favorably to using Herco or even Blue Dot. Their maximum for .38 Special +P is 3.8 grains @ 1.42", but that's only 17.2k psi which is kind of low to be calling it +P (but the ballistics is good anyway because BE is a great powder.) 5.4 grains of BE using .357 brass should be a good load. You also might try Red Dot powder; somewhere between 4.0 and 5.0 grains (5.5 is max) __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

June 1, 2010, 03:45 PM	#15
JakeSnakeSlim Member Join Date: May 2, 2010 Posts: 59	I have been thinking about a load of 6 grains of bullseye with 158 grain hard cast lead round nose flat points (357 cases) for my 357 Henry rifle. Would this be a good load for 50-75 yard target shooting with this rifle and to minimize leading. I load lots of 38's with bullseye for my handguns but don't want to shoot 38's in the 357 rifle. It would save me buying another brand of powder as about 200 hundred rounds of 357 would be all I would shoot a year.

June 2, 2010, 09:44 AM	#16
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	ask me how I know I am personally against the use of Bullseye for any high-performance loads; I recommend something 'slower' on the burn-rate chart (Universal, Power Pistol, 3N37, HS6). FWIW, one is NOT required to have liability insurance with their FFL06. One MAY reload for another without incurring Federal tax liability IF one reloads the customer's used cases ONLY. Selling components is not regulated. State and local tax liabilities may still be incurred. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

June 2, 2010, 10:47 AM	#17
JakeSnakeSlim Member Join Date: May 2, 2010 Posts: 59	Thanks Weshoot I'll look into it further. I guess it would not break the bank to buy a second powder and do it right. Just want a mid velocity "standard" load for the 357 Henry rifle shooting that will produce the least chance of leading with the 158 g hard cast round. Would appreciate any further advice from all with this type of shooting experience out of the carbine. Thank You

June 2, 2010, 08:50 PM	#18
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	but I don't do long guns..... I suggest Hodgdon Universal under that 158g; safe for medium+ velocities, economical charge weights, easy metering, 'clean', available, plenty of published data, high accuracy potential. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"