Enfield stuff

Coinneach · November 26, 1999, 11:00 PM

Harley,

Can you give me some info, like date of manufacture, on my Enfield No 4 Mk I?

It's in pretty rough shape, lots of wear on the markings. The bore is in perfect condition, though. All the numbers match.

Made in England, serial PA283XX. On the top of the breech is stamped 'BNP' under what looks like an inverted triangle. Also stamped into the breech cover is a circled D.

Before anyone asks: no, it isn't for sale.

------------------
"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property,
or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called into question.."
Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.

Harley Nolden · November 27, 1999, 07:39 AM

Coinneach:
My records indicate that the No4. MK I is currently imported by CIA and is an imporved version that featured a stronger action with an aperture sight and was easier to mass produce. It was issued in 1939 and was used during WWII. Thre is a cased and scoped Sniper model of this version as well.

My records also indicate that it was mfg'd in Canada, England and the U.S. To determine which armory mfg'd this model the following should be looked at. Savage-Stevens is denoted by "US Property S" with a C in the serial number Canadian mfg. (Long Branch, Ontario is indicated by "Long Branch, no code. British mfg was by B.S.A Shirley and marked M"47C". Royal Ordnance Factory (near Liverpool) marked ROF (F) or Royal Ordnance Factory (near Sheffield) marked "ROFM" or "RM" or "M"

HJN

Coinneach · November 29, 1999, 01:02 PM

Thanks, Harley.

------------------
"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property,
or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called into question.."
Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.

**4V50 Gary** · November 29, 1999, 01:52 PM

Harley,

Help me out. I have a Enfield Jungle Carbine (honest, it really looks like one) and would like more info on it. I suspect that it may have been reworked from a Mark IV. Anyway, here's the markings I've found on it:

Crown w/"BNP" on left side of the receiver.

A circle with "8" and another circle with "C" on top and "9" visible.

"No 5" has been stamped on the left side (the entire area appears to have been ground flat first).

The lower portion of the receiver (where the stock is affixed) has the following:

"England"
broad arrow
"M1943"
"AF"
serial #18xxx

The barrel has importer markings "Sante Fe Jungle Carbine", "Santa Fe Div. Golden State Arms Corp., "Pasadena, California, U.S.A."

Thanks Harley. Gary

------------------
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

James K · November 29, 1999, 06:06 PM

Santa Fe was importing those rifles in the 60s when most jungle carbines were "real".

Compared with a Rifle No. 4, the whole gun is lightened, even a cutaway at the sides of the trigger guard behind the front screw. The bolt handle is hollowed, and the receiver sides are cut away to reduce weight. Also, remove the upper handguard and see if the barrel is fluted at the back. If it is, and the other lightening cuts are made and the sight goes only to 800, I would say you have a Rifle No. 5.

The "BNP" is the Birmingham commercial proof, put on when the gun was sold by the British government.

Jim

Coinneach · November 29, 1999, 06:22 PM

Speaking of the number on the sight, mine goes all the way to 1300 meters, which begs the question: how the hell do you even see what you're shooting at that far out?

------------------
"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property,
or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called into question.."
Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.

November 26, 1999, 11:00 PM	#1
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,272	Harley, Can you give me some info, like date of manufacture, on my Enfield No 4 Mk I? It's in pretty rough shape, lots of wear on the markings. The bore is in perfect condition, though. All the numbers match. Made in England, serial PA283XX. On the top of the breech is stamped 'BNP' under what looks like an inverted triangle. Also stamped into the breech cover is a circled D. Before anyone asks: no, it isn't for sale. ------------------ "The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called into question.." Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.

November 27, 1999, 07:39 AM	#2
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	Coinneach: My records indicate that the No4. MK I is currently imported by CIA and is an imporved version that featured a stronger action with an aperture sight and was easier to mass produce. It was issued in 1939 and was used during WWII. Thre is a cased and scoped Sniper model of this version as well. My records also indicate that it was mfg'd in Canada, England and the U.S. To determine which armory mfg'd this model the following should be looked at. Savage-Stevens is denoted by "US Property S" with a C in the serial number Canadian mfg. (Long Branch, Ontario is indicated by "Long Branch, no code. British mfg was by B.S.A Shirley and marked M"47C". Royal Ordnance Factory (near Liverpool) marked ROF (F) or Royal Ordnance Factory (near Sheffield) marked "ROFM" or "RM" or "M" HJN

November 29, 1999, 01:02 PM	#3
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,272	Thanks, Harley. ------------------ "The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called into question.." Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.

November 29, 1999, 01:52 PM	#4
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,833	Harley, Help me out. I have a Enfield Jungle Carbine (honest, it really looks like one) and would like more info on it. I suspect that it may have been reworked from a Mark IV. Anyway, here's the markings I've found on it: Crown w/"BNP" on left side of the receiver. A circle with "8" and another circle with "C" on top and "9" visible. "No 5" has been stamped on the left side (the entire area appears to have been ground flat first). The lower portion of the receiver (where the stock is affixed) has the following: "England" broad arrow "M1943" "AF" serial #18xxx The barrel has importer markings "Sante Fe Jungle Carbine", "Santa Fe Div. Golden State Arms Corp., "Pasadena, California, U.S.A." Thanks Harley. Gary ------------------ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

November 29, 1999, 06:06 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Santa Fe was importing those rifles in the 60s when most jungle carbines were "real". Compared with a Rifle No. 4, the whole gun is lightened, even a cutaway at the sides of the trigger guard behind the front screw. The bolt handle is hollowed, and the receiver sides are cut away to reduce weight. Also, remove the upper handguard and see if the barrel is fluted at the back. If it is, and the other lightening cuts are made and the sight goes only to 800, I would say you have a Rifle No. 5. The "BNP" is the Birmingham commercial proof, put on when the gun was sold by the British government. Jim

November 29, 1999, 06:22 PM	#6
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,272	Speaking of the number on the sight, mine goes all the way to 1300 meters, which begs the question: how the hell do you even see what you're shooting at that far out? ------------------ "The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called into question.." Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.