5.7x28 for hunting? - Page 2

Art Eatman · September 7, 2013, 07:18 AM

I fail to attach importance to the difference between 2.39 inches of drop and 2.21 inches of drop. Or between 7.14 and 8.73.

Drop? Wind? A shooter is supposed to have a clue about the performance of whatever load is being used.

JD0x0 · September 7, 2013, 09:57 AM

not really... If you want 'real' BC's Compare the .277 diameter 150 grain Nosler Accubond 'Long range' with a listed G1 BC of .625 and a round nose of the same weight with a BC closer to .25
So my 'imaginary' BC's are not very unrealistic. If you cast a completely flat faced bullet in .277 @ 150 grains it'd likely have a BC closer to the .2 I listed. Those numbers weren't that un-realistic (Albeit it was for the caliber and weight I used as an example)
You get fairly similar results even with "real world" BC's

Quote:

Or between 7.14 and 8.73.

You've got the numbers scrambled a bit.
7.14'' drift with the .2BC
2.25'' drift with .65 BC
Both @ 200 yards.
The drop doesn't matter much, at those ranges, but the wind drift and velocity difference is fairly significant.

Do the calculations for the Accubond "long range" and the Round Nosed soft point at 3000fps, a completely reasonable velocity for those bullets.. and you'll still see significant difference in Velocity/Energy and wind drift.

tahunua001 · September 7, 2013, 11:11 AM

I would just like to start by saying that I have never seen a single person that used a round nosed bullet in a 7mm. not saying they don't exist but they are highly impractical exactly because there are bullets of better design with better BC in the same weight class.

with that said. round nose bullets have a completely different level of application than spire point bullets. spire points are designed to give you your best performance over range while round nose are generally better suited to punching through thick hide and heavy muscle to get to vitals.

if I were shooting a bison with both of those bullets listed I would rather have the round nose than the accubond. the spitzer would be very likely to tumble and deflect, the round nose would be much less likely to do that.

Brian Pfleuger · September 7, 2013, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD0x0

not really... If you want 'real' BC's Compare the .277 diameter 150 grain Nosler Accubond 'Long range' with a listed G1 BC of .625 and a round nose of the same weight with a BC closer to .25
So my 'imaginary' BC's are not very unrealistic. If you cast a completely flat faced bullet in .277 @ 150 grains it'd likely have a BC closer to the .2 I listed. Those numbers weren't that un-realistic (Albeit it was for the caliber and weight I used as an example)

So if you intentionally created a bullet to have a really bad BC, you could use it to prove that two bullet of the same weight and caliber can have drastically different BCs.

Who in god's name is going to cast a flat nose .277 bullet and use it for the purposes that are required for your "proof". Google "Reification Fallacy" or Reductio Ad Absurdum

The bullets and BCs that you list as "proof" essentially do not exist in .223/4 caliber. The highest BC I've ever seen for a .224 bullet is around 0.580 and that's a 90gr which wouldn't work in 95% of the worlds .223Rem and probably not a single FN5.7.

Sierra280 · September 8, 2013, 02:29 PM

Wow!!! Lots of really bad/misinformation on this thread.

The 5.7 x 28mm FN was produced as an easy to handle, lightweight, close quarters weapon, that had the ability to defeat body armor without the concern of over-penetration (that can happen with the 5.56NATO)

My reloading manual lists a 45gr Sierra sp, -max load- as having a muzzle velocity of less than 1600fps. That's LESS THAN HALF THE VELOCITY OF A COMPARABLE .223 load. Regardless of BC. The fn simply does not have the powder capacity, it's a tiny little 22cal cartridge, by any measure.

Sure a well placed shot with any gun at close enough range will take down game, but should you really recommend that sort of thing?

Art Eatman · September 8, 2013, 07:33 PM

I have an FN Herstal pistol. I figure that it's a good social gun for up close and personal efforts. Fort Hood, remember?

But it's still somewhere in the general vicinity of the .22 Mag, the .17 HMr or a .22 Hornet, overall. For honest work I'd call it a varmint load. In a rifle, IMO, it would be fine for deer poachers. Ethical folks? Coyotes and smaller.

tahunua001 · September 8, 2013, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Wow!!! Lots of really bad/misinformation on this thread.

The 5.7 x 28mm FN was produced as an easy to handle, lightweight, close quarters weapon, that had the ability to defeat body armor without the concern of over-penetration (that can happen with the 5.56NATO)

My reloading manual lists a 45gr Sierra sp, -max load- as having a muzzle velocity of less than 1600fps. That's LESS THAN HALF THE VELOCITY OF A COMPARABLE .223 load. Regardless of BC. The fn simply does not have the powder capacity, it's a tiny little 22cal cartridge, by any measure.

Sure a well placed shot with any gun at close enough range will take down game, but should you really recommend that sort of thing?

sierra, is that out of a 4.5 inch test barrel or a 16 inch test barrel? you'd be surprised how slow 223 is coming out of a pistol length barrel. there are lots of carbine length rifles that increase the velocity a great deal. federal premium lists the same 5.7 bullet in both rifle and pistol velocity. the pistol gets very close to that you stated. the rifle gets over 600FPS faster. no mis information, just misreading.

Sierra280 · September 8, 2013, 10:49 PM

4.75in FN Five-seveN was the test gun.

Pertaining to the original question: Even with an additional 600-700fps it still comes in well under 22cal cartridges generally accepted for hunting (.223rem, 22-250, 220swift, etc). Unless you are active duty special forces, the 5.7 is really just a novelty.

Since we're debating basic reading in reloading manuals; assuming the same bullets are used: How does 4-8grs of powder produce velocities (or muzzle energies) equal to 22-48grs of powder?

tahunua001 · September 8, 2013, 10:56 PM

I would love to see you stuff 48 grains of powder in a 223.

Creek Henry · September 9, 2013, 09:09 PM

A guy killed a hog with a .177 pellet a while back... a perfect shot through the eye into the brain. So, it CAN be done but that doesn't mean YOU should try it :)

Mobuck · September 11, 2013, 06:49 AM

Hunting with a 5.7? Yep bunnies, groundhogs, and maybe a coyote.
With many years of hunting experience(and many dead deer), I'll say I "can" kill a deer with a 22lr or 22 mag. Do I hunt during deer season with a pipsqueak round? Absolutely not!!!!!!!!!!!! The lowest energy cartridge I normally use is 257 Roberts simply because I refuse to risk losing an animal in an effort to bolster my ego. Sure I've seen deer killed effectively with stuff like the 223 but I still don't recommend such use by "Joe Average" deer hunters.

September 7, 2013, 11:11 AM	#28
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	I would just like to start by saying that I have never seen a single person that used a round nosed bullet in a 7mm. not saying they don't exist but they are highly impractical exactly because there are bullets of better design with better BC in the same weight class. with that said. round nose bullets have a completely different level of application than spire point bullets. spire points are designed to give you your best performance over range while round nose are generally better suited to punching through thick hide and heavy muscle to get to vitals. if I were shooting a bison with both of those bullets listed I would rather have the round nose than the accubond. the spitzer would be very likely to tumble and deflect, the round nose would be much less likely to do that. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

September 8, 2013, 10:56 PM	#34
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	I would love to see you stuff 48 grains of powder in a 223. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

September 11, 2013, 06:49 AM	#36
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	Hunting with a 5.7? Yep bunnies, groundhogs, and maybe a coyote. With many years of hunting experience(and many dead deer), I'll say I "can" kill a deer with a 22lr or 22 mag. Do I hunt during deer season with a pipsqueak round? Absolutely not!!!!!!!!!!!! The lowest energy cartridge I normally use is 257 Roberts simply because I refuse to risk losing an animal in an effort to bolster my ego. Sure I've seen deer killed effectively with stuff like the 223 but I still don't recommend such use by "Joe Average" deer hunters. Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; September 11, 2013 at 07:33 AM.

September 7, 2013, 07:18 AM	#26
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	I fail to attach importance to the difference between 2.39 inches of drop and 2.21 inches of drop. Or between 7.14 and 8.73. Drop? Wind? A shooter is supposed to have a clue about the performance of whatever load is being used.

September 8, 2013, 02:29 PM	#30
Sierra280 Junior member Join Date: July 29, 2013 Location: Gardnerville, NV Posts: 569	Wow!!! Lots of really bad/misinformation on this thread. The 5.7 x 28mm FN was produced as an easy to handle, lightweight, close quarters weapon, that had the ability to defeat body armor without the concern of over-penetration (that can happen with the 5.56NATO) My reloading manual lists a 45gr Sierra sp, -max load- as having a muzzle velocity of less than 1600fps. That's LESS THAN HALF THE VELOCITY OF A COMPARABLE .223 load. Regardless of BC. The fn simply does not have the powder capacity, it's a tiny little 22cal cartridge, by any measure. Sure a well placed shot with any gun at close enough range will take down game, but should you really recommend that sort of thing?

September 8, 2013, 07:33 PM	#31
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	I have an FN Herstal pistol. I figure that it's a good social gun for up close and personal efforts. Fort Hood, remember? But it's still somewhere in the general vicinity of the .22 Mag, the .17 HMr or a .22 Hornet, overall. For honest work I'd call it a varmint load. In a rifle, IMO, it would be fine for deer poachers. Ethical folks? Coyotes and smaller.

September 8, 2013, 10:49 PM	#33
Sierra280 Junior member Join Date: July 29, 2013 Location: Gardnerville, NV Posts: 569	4.75in FN Five-seveN was the test gun. Pertaining to the original question: Even with an additional 600-700fps it still comes in well under 22cal cartridges generally accepted for hunting (.223rem, 22-250, 220swift, etc). Unless you are active duty special forces, the 5.7 is really just a novelty. Since we're debating basic reading in reloading manuals; assuming the same bullets are used: How does 4-8grs of powder produce velocities (or muzzle energies) equal to 22-48grs of powder?

September 9, 2013, 09:09 PM	#35
Creek Henry Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2009 Location: Dallas Posts: 514	A guy killed a hog with a .177 pellet a while back... a perfect shot through the eye into the brain. So, it CAN be done but that doesn't mean YOU should try it :)