glock's "C" models, pro's & con's

[long shot]

I'm particularly interested in a g23"C".I already own a 23,but one reason I like my g19 so much is it's so easy to shoot fast & acc.even w/ the hottest 9mm loads.I can handle the 23 just fine,but I like every edge I can get in a defensive encounter.The better one shoots a weapon,the more confidence they will have w/it.My main concerns w/ a ported gun,are increased noise level/flash/& gases blowing back into my face.Experiences & opinions appreciated...long shot!

[blades67]

If you use a ported weapon in low light, you will be blinded by the muzzle flash on either side of the front sight with the first shot. Double taps take even longer to recover from.

If you fire from a weapon retention position (i.e. gun is held against, or next to, the body), all of the muzzle blast is directed up into your face and into your body.

These are two likely defensive firing postures, making a ported gun a poor choice.

If you can rent one before you buy one, try this; hold the pistol close to your face using a modified Weaver stance, with the gun slightly below your line of sight (and far enough from your face to avoid contact with the slide) and fire a couple of rounds. If you don't like getting that close to the muzzle flash and blast, don't buy a "C" model for defensive use. Range and game use is great though.

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Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat!

I hunt, therefore I am.

[Ben]

It should NOT blind you at all if you use quality ammo. It's just one of those things people say until they actually TRY a compensated Glock. Most defensive ammo uses a treated powder to supress muzzle flash. And the flash is so small and fast that you'll hardly notice it. Just experiment with it and several brands of ammo to see which ammo you like best. The Glock 23C is my favorite Glock. Don't be talked out of it. It's an awsome gun and report back how you like it.

Ben

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Almost Online IM: BenK911
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[This message has been edited by Ben (edited April 22, 2000).]

[KY-Midnight]

Leaves black carbon all over you, but other than that, they are nice. (You end up looking like a WWI airplane pilot)

[Edmund Rowe]

I agree with Blades67 on the possible drawbacks of compensator flash and blast. It might not disturb you. The flash might be different with different ammo. If you do a flash test try to get in severely low-light and stay that way for about 30 minutes so your eyes get used to the darkness. Then check out the flash from the compensator.

If you already have a 19 and a 23 and are happy with them, I'd say "If it ain't broke don't fix it".

If you want to spend $$$$ on another handgun, having two of your favorite is always an option. If one is at the gunsmith or custom holstermaker, or is disassembled for cleaning, or otherwise unuseable, then #2 is up and ready to go. Fits all the same holsters, same mode of operation, same magazines, etc.

Edmund

[The Happy Camper]

The noise!!! Ahh it will deafen you if you need to shoot it defensively.

[Dave AA]

I have a G23C

What noise? Sounds just like a non-ported G23

What flash? The "muzzle flash" does not become visible until it is 6-7" above the slide. If you are looking at your sights, you won't even see it. If you have not shot a "C" model extensively, and think the flash will blind you, you like many others have become distracted by watching the flash, not your sights. (It is pretty cool!) I did it too when I first got the gun. Also did not help my accuracy! But you get over the fascination.

Firing the gun held by the waist? Cant it away 5-10 degrees. Most people do it instinctively anyway.

Last but not least, you can put a non-ported barrel in a "C" model, but not vice-versa.

[twoblink]

My friend had a 19C and used it in home defense at night. Got powder all over himself, and said that the flash did blind him for a little bit. Compensated guns aren't great for defense at night. Also, a .40 compensated is probably gonna not give you that much advantage over a +P 9mm.

The other HUGE issues is cleaning. My friend sold his compensated because of cleaning difficulties. Maybe it's just him, but I doubt it...

Albert

[Ezeckial]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by twoblink:
My friend had a 19C and used it in home defense at night. Got powder all over himself, and said that the flash did blind him for a little bit. Compensated guns aren't great for defense at night. Also, a .40 compensated is probably gonna not give you that much advantage over a +P 9mm.

Albert[/quote]

Again, the cleaning issues depend upon the ammo used. Use a quality ammunition, you won't have that many problems.
I've a 19C...picked it up used for a really good price (under $400 including a 10 round and a 15 round mag).
Admittedly, I've not shot it at night. But if the flash bothers me, I'll get a standard barrel for carry use.
However, the noise is a different issue. No doubt, a ported barrel is quite a bit louder (to the shooter) then a non ported model. I've had a Taurus 669 .357 revolver for years. This gun is ported...first gun I ever owned that sounded like something in a movie: BaaaWhooomb!!!

Now, that will deafen you.
I would not pay extra for a 9mm gun just to have a ported barrel.


[This message has been edited by Ezeckial (edited April 22, 2000).]

[racine]

I already use some of the most expensive low flash powder out there and still find myself blinded during night shoots. My friends constantly ask me what powder I use due to its low muzzle flash but I still get that 2-4 second blinding in moderately low light that I cannot see my night sights. Most encounters will be in low light at very close range. The last thing you will want to do is get blinded by either the flash or powder residue from your comp! Chances are you won't be wearing goggles. At such close range I would more than likely rely on my training, situational awareness and point shooting. Why broadcast your position to BG's unnecessarily? Why do you think they have flash suppressors for GI's? Try ammo you will be using in the dark, night sights, point shooting from 2- 5 ft, and practice lots. Good luck and good shooting...
2c,
TR

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TR

[Rainbow Six]

To read some of these comments, one could get the idea that a standard, non-comped barrel doesn't have any muzzle flash and that only the comped guns do. FWIW, the flash from the comp holes in my G31C do not produce any brighter flash, nor does it cause any more night vision problems in low light than the end of the barrels do on my uncomped Glocks. I'd have to agree with the above in that if I watch the sights I don't even notice the flash in all but the lowest lighting.

The blast ain't that bad, at least for me. I shoot LAWMAN 125gr TMJ practice, Federal 125gr JHP full boat and Speer 125gr GDHP full boat loads and I don't have a blast problem with any of it. The cleaning issue is also a non-issue for me with the above listed loads.

On another note, after owning and playing with my G31C for a while now, I will have to say that I do prefer a non-comped gun for duty/defense use. Although I have no flash problems, the gasses coming from the ports are extremely hot and trying to adapt your tactics/techniques to keep from getting a face full are just another thing to cloud your mind when TSHTF. Just my .02...


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R6...aka...Chris

[This message has been edited by Rainbow Six (edited April 24, 2000).]

[twoblink]

I hear ya rainbow, but with a C, I pray to God that you never have to shoot across your own body, because then the flames fly up to your face..

Albert

[Rainbow Six]

twoblink,

That's why I included that last paragraph. I admitted to preferring a non-comped gun for duty/defense for that very reason.



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R6...aka...Chris

[B Shipley]

I did some IDPA style stuff in a darkened range w/ my 20C and didn't really notice muzzle flash, even w/ cheap ammo.

I wouldn't want a comped gun for most purposes, esp. for lighter calibers (what is the purpose of a comped 9mm?).

Did I mention LOUD?

Anyhow, the "fearsome" ten feels fine in this gun.

[B Shipley]

Also, some lead blast/spray in the ports to clean out (some in the barrel, too), but this is probably the result of cheap ammo (jacketed, though).

[Rosco Benson]

One of the participants on a closed, Gunsite-grad e-mail list on which I am a member, reported that one of the new recruits into the police department on which he serves as a trainer, opted for a G17C for a duty gun. While practicing with it from a close-quarter or retention position, a jacket fragment exited the port and went right up the recruit's nostril, where it lodged. The recruit was scheduled for surgury to remove it when it came out on its own.

Rosco

[Rainbow Six]

I haven't noticed any lead spitting/spray out of or in the holes but I did have two lead streaks inside the barrel from the comp holes to the muzzle the frist couple times I shot it. Haven't noticed it since, though. I guess it is possible to get copper shavings and/or lead spitting if the projectile catches on the holes just right. Good point.

BTW, how in the crap was that guy holding his gun to get a piece of bullet up his nose?!?!?! Sounds like maybe he was using the slide like a rifle comb!!



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R6...aka...Chris

[Rosco Benson]

As I understand, the recruit was firing the pistol from the "retention" position...which would be up close to the strong side pectoral muscle. Several instructors (among them, Louis Awerbuck and Randy Cain) are now teaching a drawstroke wherein the pistol moves from the holster up to this "retention position" and then is either fired from there (if circumstances dictate) or punched straight out into a Weaver stance.

This may or may not be the best drawstroke currently being taught, but it does require some care to cant a ported pistol so you don't injure yourself if you insist on using one.

Rosco