As a general rule, don't face down four men with long guns with a handgun - Page 2

Fremmer · September 27, 2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Just curious, how many of you would have shot first?

None of us would have shot first. If someone disagrees, please tell me what would justify just shooting first.

Quote:

In the end I invited them in my house, apologized if I scared them but let them know how close they came to dying (that was me being cocky).

Don't get cocky. Some guys are not just going to drop their guns; they could have immediately started running in 4 different directions, obtained cover, and started shooting at you. And you might have come really close to dying.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, and I'm not sure how I would have handled the situation, but I think you (and the 4 other guys) got really lucky that someone didn't get shot over a simple misunderstanding. And gettin' lucky is nothing to be cocky about. JMHO.

Big Yac · October 1, 2008, 02:24 PM

You're very lucky nobody got shot, not because you confronted four men armed with rifles, while you yourself only had a pistol, but because of your getting cocky to give your ego a boost. I just dont understand why you needed to be cocky. These people were not uninvited, your wife gave permission infact. Could you have kept a pair of binoculars in the car and tried to identify the threat from afar before jumping straight into chairborne comando mode? I bet if the little old lady next door came over to borrow a cup of milk youd hold her at gun point while having the dogs smell her for explosives just incase she had some nefarious intentions. I'm sure youd remind her of how close she came to dying too...just you being cocky though.
Really people we're getting alittle too castle doctrine happy and that is exactly what the antis see...ccw toting people who constantly need to boost their ego by letting everyone know that since they carry they are all of a sudden robocop.
Yes I ccw but it doesnt come out unless its absolutely necessary and then, only then will it come out. I also wouldnt come on here bragging about how I confronted 3 battalions of men with only my slingshot and samuri sword.

Bogie · October 1, 2008, 10:08 PM

Guys, guns do not fix all problems.

In this case, someone had inadequate intel, and rather than perform a recon, and gather intel, he chose instead to essentially do a headlong frontal assault.

Personally, I'd have bailed from the vehicle, loaded the long gun, gotten back IN the vehicle, and driven toward them, honking a time or two.

Several things could happen:

They could run. That's fine. You're probably in a catch & release state.

They could freeze. Also fine.

They could turn and wave.

If they start shooting, well, get thee behind the engine block, and return fire from cover.

And I don't know how fast YOU are, but an H1 can whup my butt in the 100 yard dash.

wildturkey76209 · October 2, 2008, 04:52 PM

Somebody please tell me again how it is one quotes somebody that has already posted. FAQ is not very helpful...

Para Bellum · October 3, 2008, 02:43 PM

You did well. Nobody got hurt and if they had been BGs you would have had a good chance to save you beloved one.

Quote:

I almost ended up in a gun battle with 4 armed young men in the middle of nowhere with absolutely no cover armed with a glock 21.

I kind of disagree. You were far from a gun battle. And at 20yds with a Glock 21 you stand a good chance anyway. But take your AR next time (geeeeezzz).

Instead of getting out of the car I'd do what I had seen the Italian Police in a raid of a square once. They speeded towards the square in 4 cars from 4 sides. Some 100yds from their target they opened the doors and shut off the engines. So they approached their targets at some 50miles/h silently and got them fully by surprise...

Ever considered a pair of dogs around such a remote house?
If you had seen your dogs calm and easy you could have been sure there was no aggression involved. So a pair of good dogs and a field-glass would have saved you a lot of stress.

It's a pitty you don't live in my neighborhood.

ws6_keith · October 3, 2008, 03:20 PM

No one was injured, so you did well ENOUGH in this situation. Obviously, there are things that could have been done better - and if there is a next time, you will.

On the comms though, you need to look into a satellite base-station setup. You can get so many hours per year, on a year contract with a sat phone company and install a receiver dish on the roof. Then, plug your standard wall or portable phones into it, so you have service. You NEED the ability to call out - and in this case, to call IN (call your other half and find out).

no one · October 4, 2008, 12:35 PM

The most interesting thing about this posting is that the person who made the initial post is being "second guessed" and criticized quite a bit. As I thought about that for the last couple of days, it occurred to me that he now knows what people in law enforcement feel like on a daily basis. I think the realization of how law enforcement officers feel is a real wake up for most people. Only the posters are not risking their pension, lifes earnings, and indictment via postings as the law enforcement officer does with every contact.

Rager · October 10, 2008, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Okay I used to remember how to do this....
Somebody please tell me again how it is one quotes somebody that has already posted. FAQ is not very helpful...
__________________
Sure animals got rights. They got the right to butter and garlic. -Ted Nugent

Cut and paste whatever text you want to quote, tick the "post reply" button, then Ctrl+V after ticking the 3rd from the right- bottom row icon.

To Casey- you sound a little bit paranoid. I wouldn't have come to the conclusion you did. That's your business not mine. Otherwise consider some sort of external alarm/ roof mounted strobe/ light that your SO can use to declare an emergency. Even to other neighbors in the event of a medical emergency.

On a side note, one of my brothers just got his CCW. I've asked him several times about how much he practices, and he just mumbles. I'm concerned that he thinks he can just "whip it out" and somehow be in control of a dangerous situation. I've tried to have him realize that if he doesn't read a situation properly the weapon means nothing.

vytoland · October 10, 2008, 10:08 AM

you got real lucky, all it would have taken is one startled rifeman and an ugly result.

if cell phones are not available, would a pair of 2 way radio walkie talkie work for you?

FSJeeper · October 10, 2008, 05:55 PM

Thats a tough one. I agree about driving up on them fast being ready to use the H1 as cover. That way you would immediately know what their intentions are and divert attention from them going to the house where your fiance was.

I had a situation a few years ago at my ranch. I only go there on weekends and was driving through the gate on a Friday evening and I noticed a man with a rifle about 100 yards behind my house on the treeline. I watched him for a little while and my gut told me he was not a threat and not doing anything threatening. I accelerated past the house and drove up to him about 50 feet away. All I had in the truck was a shotgun with buckshot. He laid his rifle down and put his hands up. When I walked up to him with the shotgun I found a very scared hispanic young man that did not speak much English. Turns out he worked for my neighbor and the neighbor let him deer hunt that afternoon. He had gut shot a doe and it ran onto my property. He was just looking for it in the brush.

I helped him find it, gut it, and loaded it up and took him back over to the neighbors a few miles away.

Talking about it later with friends, almost all of them said why didn't you call the police and wait? Why expose yourself when it is not necessary? I have to admit, the thought did not cross my mind to call the police and I definitely get cell phone service, there was no one out there to protect, and the police could have been out there in 30 minutes or so. Someone was on my property, I had several expensive thefts of tools and equipment before that and I was ******. I was not using my head at all. I hope I have learned the lesson.

NWPilgrim · October 10, 2008, 09:43 PM

I am not going to advise or critique the stated situation and reaction but just offer a couple more things to consider. You came out OK so you did good. I can understand instinctual imperative to do something NOW if you feel your wife may be under extreme danger.

1) IF they had been BGs there could have been a couple more inside with your wife while four stayed outside on guard. That would really complicate things.

2) Being invited guests they may have thought YOU were the bad guy for sneaking up behind them, or worse barreling into the drive in full assault mode.

I think getting behind them was a good choice but did/could you identify yourself as the property owner without giving up too much advantage?

I like the ideas of CB or FRS radios since your wife has limited mobility. And the dogs! Man's best friend for a reason.

October 1, 2008, 02:24 PM	#27
Big Yac Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 422	You're very lucky nobody got shot, not because you confronted four men armed with rifles, while you yourself only had a pistol, but because of your getting cocky to give your ego a boost. I just dont understand why you needed to be cocky. These people were not uninvited, your wife gave permission infact. Could you have kept a pair of binoculars in the car and tried to identify the threat from afar before jumping straight into chairborne comando mode? I bet if the little old lady next door came over to borrow a cup of milk youd hold her at gun point while having the dogs smell her for explosives just incase she had some nefarious intentions. I'm sure youd remind her of how close she came to dying too...just you being cocky though. Really people we're getting alittle too castle doctrine happy and that is exactly what the antis see...ccw toting people who constantly need to boost their ego by letting everyone know that since they carry they are all of a sudden robocop. Yes I ccw but it doesnt come out unless its absolutely necessary and then, only then will it come out. I also wouldnt come on here bragging about how I confronted 3 battalions of men with only my slingshot and samuri sword. __________________ "...and that's the bottom line, because Big Yac said so."

October 1, 2008, 10:08 PM	#28
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	Guys, guns do not fix all problems. In this case, someone had inadequate intel, and rather than perform a recon, and gather intel, he chose instead to essentially do a headlong frontal assault. Personally, I'd have bailed from the vehicle, loaded the long gun, gotten back IN the vehicle, and driven toward them, honking a time or two. Several things could happen: They could run. That's fine. You're probably in a catch & release state. They could freeze. Also fine. They could turn and wave. If they start shooting, well, get thee behind the engine block, and return fire from cover. And I don't know how fast YOU are, but an H1 can whup my butt in the 100 yard dash. __________________ Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist. And making the world's greatest bottle openers!

October 2, 2008, 04:52 PM	#29
wildturkey76209 Member Join Date: June 6, 2008 Location: Denton, TX Posts: 73	Okay I used to remember how to do this.... Somebody please tell me again how it is one quotes somebody that has already posted. FAQ is not very helpful... __________________ Sure animals got rights. They got the right to butter and garlic. -Ted Nugent

October 3, 2008, 03:20 PM	#31
ws6_keith Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 1999 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 147	No one was injured, so you did well ENOUGH in this situation. Obviously, there are things that could have been done better - and if there is a next time, you will. On the comms though, you need to look into a satellite base-station setup. You can get so many hours per year, on a year contract with a sat phone company and install a receiver dish on the roof. Then, plug your standard wall or portable phones into it, so you have service. You NEED the ability to call out - and in this case, to call IN (call your other half and find out). __________________ Keith http://www.ws6.com

October 4, 2008, 12:35 PM	#32
no one Member Join Date: September 16, 2008 Posts: 54	The most interesting thing about this posting is that the person who made the initial post is being "second guessed" and criticized quite a bit. As I thought about that for the last couple of days, it occurred to me that he now knows what people in law enforcement feel like on a daily basis. I think the realization of how law enforcement officers feel is a real wake up for most people. Only the posters are not risking their pension, lifes earnings, and indictment via postings as the law enforcement officer does with every contact.

October 10, 2008, 10:08 AM	#34
vytoland Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 614	you got real lucky, all it would have taken is one startled rifeman and an ugly result. if cell phones are not available, would a pair of 2 way radio walkie talkie work for you?

October 10, 2008, 05:55 PM	#35
FSJeeper Member Join Date: July 21, 2008 Posts: 96	Thats a tough one. I agree about driving up on them fast being ready to use the H1 as cover. That way you would immediately know what their intentions are and divert attention from them going to the house where your fiance was. I had a situation a few years ago at my ranch. I only go there on weekends and was driving through the gate on a Friday evening and I noticed a man with a rifle about 100 yards behind my house on the treeline. I watched him for a little while and my gut told me he was not a threat and not doing anything threatening. I accelerated past the house and drove up to him about 50 feet away. All I had in the truck was a shotgun with buckshot. He laid his rifle down and put his hands up. When I walked up to him with the shotgun I found a very scared hispanic young man that did not speak much English. Turns out he worked for my neighbor and the neighbor let him deer hunt that afternoon. He had gut shot a doe and it ran onto my property. He was just looking for it in the brush. I helped him find it, gut it, and loaded it up and took him back over to the neighbors a few miles away. Talking about it later with friends, almost all of them said why didn't you call the police and wait? Why expose yourself when it is not necessary? I have to admit, the thought did not cross my mind to call the police and I definitely get cell phone service, there was no one out there to protect, and the police could have been out there in 30 minutes or so. Someone was on my property, I had several expensive thefts of tools and equipment before that and I was ******. I was not using my head at all. I hope I have learned the lesson.

October 10, 2008, 09:43 PM	#36
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	I am not going to advise or critique the stated situation and reaction but just offer a couple more things to consider. You came out OK so you did good. I can understand instinctual imperative to do something NOW if you feel your wife may be under extreme danger. 1) IF they had been BGs there could have been a couple more inside with your wife while four stayed outside on guard. That would really complicate things. 2) Being invited guests they may have thought YOU were the bad guy for sneaking up behind them, or worse barreling into the drive in full assault mode. I think getting behind them was a good choice but did/could you identify yourself as the property owner without giving up too much advantage? I like the ideas of CB or FRS radios since your wife has limited mobility. And the dogs! Man's best friend for a reason.