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July 7, 2012, 07:31 PM | #151 |
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The .38spl round did fairly well for a PDW during the Vietnam War. The round was a 130 grain fmj. Kind of anemic but it worked.
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July 8, 2012, 07:06 AM | #152 |
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It can:
Give enjoyment to countless shooters, young and old, at the range plinking cans and target shooting. Give piece of mind to arthritic older citizens, not able to manipulate a bottom-feeder, who live alone or not alone when things go bump in the night. Make a bad guys' night go bad in a hurry. It can't: Convert closed-minded individuals who believe nothing but what they shoot will do in any situation. |
July 8, 2012, 11:04 AM | #153 | |
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July 8, 2012, 01:12 PM | #154 | |
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Hey Nanuk,
Quote:
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Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster-- |
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July 8, 2012, 02:45 PM | #155 |
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I'm inexperienced compared to most of you, but I have opinions on the .38 Special. Here's my input to the OP's question:
The .38 Special can: Be really fun to shoot Be very accurate Kill small game Kill larger game (it's been done) Kill rattlesnakes (I've done it several times) Kill humans Hurt like hell according to my co-worker who was shot with one Make you feel more secure when it's in the nightstand The 38 Special can't: Cause as much damage as a .357 or .44 Magnum or bigger magnum calibers Hurt your hand as much as a magnum load (unless you have severe physical limitations) Guarantee safety against any and all species of angry, crazed animals that want to kill you I don't know why the .38 gets disrespected. Seems like a fine cartridge to me. That being said, I also own a .357, a .45, a .270, a 12 ga., and a 7.62x54. Draw any conclusions you wish.
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July 8, 2012, 07:28 PM | #156 | |
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Still, the .38 is the load I always come back to, and it may be my favorite handgun load.
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July 9, 2012, 12:07 AM | #157 | |
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Anyhoo, the .38 special is just about the easiest round to reload ..... I have loaded far more of them than any other cartridge. |
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July 9, 2012, 01:06 AM | #158 | |
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So what I said earlier about the Model 10 with a 4" pencil barrel loaded weighing less than the G19 unloaded was wrong. It just feels that way when you hold them side by side. This is because, in my opinion, of the way the weight is distributed. In the Model 10 with the light weight pencil barrel, the weight is directly over the hand. In the unloaded G19 the weight is forward in the muzzle. The center of the guns weight changes as it is loaded with a full mag and changes again as the mag is empty. Since 16 ounces equals a pound I figure it may be safe to say that the loaded Model 10 is in the neighborhood of weight of the loaded G19. Which doesn't mean much at all though, well other than round count, speed of reload, etc. tipoc |
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July 9, 2012, 07:08 AM | #159 |
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But how much does the Glock weigh when loaded?
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July 9, 2012, 08:50 AM | #160 |
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I don't have any ammo here at work, but one internet source lists .44 ounces for a 124 gr 9 mm round. I'll check when I get home and update this post if I find that's wildly wrong.
So, 16 rounds in the Glock would weigh just over 7 ounces. Add that to the 21-ounce unloaded weight, and you get 28 ounces, which is still less than the unloaded Model 10. I agree that the weight distribution and density makes a difference in how heavy a gun "feels", though. Back when I had my Glock 19, it never felt *that* much lighter than my pre-Model 10. |
July 9, 2012, 10:12 AM | #161 |
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Cut to the chase
What can it do? It can make it possible for you to defend the lives of you and your loved ones, should the need arise.
What can't it do? It can't do a damned thing on it's own. You have to be willing to become proficient with it. But I guess the same holds true with any weapon. That's my $.02 worth. |
July 9, 2012, 11:35 AM | #162 |
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Let's take a peek at what Glock says about the weight of it's guns.
http://us.glock.com/products/model/g19 Glock claims the G19 loaded weighs 30.16 ounces. That may vary a bit depending on round count. The pencil barreled 4" S&W weighs 29.5 ounces and will vary some depending on stocks. So the loaded G19, to no ones surprise, weighs either a bit more or within a couple of ounces of the M&P. Loaded though and the steel M&P goes over the weight of the G19 by a bit. The stocks, Pachmyers rubber grips for example, may increase that as well. My mistake and the mistake of two other shooters at a local gunatorium recently was based on picking up both guns empty side by side and holding them and subjectively weighing them. We all agreed and were surprised that the M10 felt lighter than the G19. Still feels lighter but that is just balance. I don't think this point is particular to Glocks. Some of the polymer framed guns, depending on barrel length, have a certain muzzle heavy feel to them when unloaded. The balance point of the gun will shift when a full mag is inserted. But a bull barrel on the M10 and it will feel a good bit heavier than the G19. I don't recall why I made this point to begin with. tipoc Last edited by tipoc; July 9, 2012 at 11:41 AM. |
July 9, 2012, 01:29 PM | #163 |
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hole size
So, this is my first post here, but I felt I should interject a little bit of info. I have been in emergency medicine for 10+ years in the Minneapolis area. Now people keep saying that .45, .44 mag, .40, 9mm are all better than a .38 because they make a bigger hole and I have to say, the most tore up gun shot victims when it comes to a hand gun is usually a .22 or .38 sometimes because the bullet doesn't have enough force to leave the body and will bounce around tearing up everything from the chest to the gut. Do they die immediately? No, but they don't usually have a great day. Do they get knocked down immediatly? Not usually, but they don't usually continue their fight either. I carry a Glock 21 in the winter when it is easier to conceal and a .38 sp or .380in the summer for ease of concealment. I am not scared that I will come out on the bad end of a because in reality, shot placement is more important than size.
Of course the reason I rarely see people with a gun shot would from a 12 gauge is that they go to the coroner, and I'm sure they were knocked down almost immediatly which means for home defense, a 12 gauge tactical shot gun is your best bet. hell load it with 2 rounds of #8 shot followed by a couple rounds of 00 buck if needed and you should have nothing to worry about. |
July 9, 2012, 02:25 PM | #164 |
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Yep, what BigJMN said. I shoot magnums and I carry magnum loads outside the house but my bedside gun is 38spcl LSWC 158 gr. from my bed to the door boogerman is in trouble. Outside plinking or shooting small game with a centerfire the 38 spcl beats the heck out of the cost of the magnums and the 44 spcl. What can it do, it can hit a 5 gallon bucket at 200 yards and it can bust up a 2 liter bottle of water at 25 yards and a friend of mine has killed every pig but one with a 38 spcl.
So who cares about the Glock it wasn't part of the question, who cares about the 44 magnum, or the 44 spcl or the 45 colt or the 40 cal or the 10 MM, or the 9 MM, they weren't part of the question.
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Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster-- |
July 9, 2012, 09:23 PM | #165 |
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Just some information about the military use of the .38 special. The US military used the 38 special Smith and Wesson's until the 90s when they switched out the M9 pistol. Various type of ball ammo were created for different uses by the military. I recall my father an Air Force SP complaining of the switch from revolver to M9 semi-auto.
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July 9, 2012, 09:38 PM | #166 | |
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Quote:
Great first post. I agree with everything you said except the part about the bullets bouncing around inside the shootee. If a round had enough energy to do that it would have enough energy to pass through.
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July 10, 2012, 03:26 PM | #167 |
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Many have strong opinions about this, BUT...the .38 cal has stopped many a bad guy over the years. I personally carry either Buffalo Bore 150 gr. 38 spl Hard Cast Wadcutter OR Carbon DPX .38+P in my Ruger LCR...and I never feel under-gunned.
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July 11, 2012, 09:58 AM | #168 | |
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July 11, 2012, 11:44 AM | #169 |
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In 5 pages of posts, I think this one is, by far, the best:
"What can it do? It can make it possible for you to defend the lives of you and your loved ones, should the need arise. What can't it do? It can't do a damned thing on it's own. You have to be willing to become proficient with it. But I guess the same holds true with any weapon." We've gone round and round on this subject. Maybe some ideas have been changed, but I really doubt it. I think after five pages of good discussion, this thread has earned a break. Thank you, everyone, for keeping it on a nice, even keel.
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