Parking lot incident

Microgunner · August 6, 2009, 10:35 AM

First, let me preface with the fact that Florida is a strong stand your ground state and we are not required to retreat in any fashion. That said, last Monday, while circling the very crowded parking lot for a handicap space (I get to park close, that's what makes me so popular

) a space was finally opening up. I pulled up close and waited for the elderly woman to vacate the space. A gold Toyota behind me quickly became impatient and began tooting his horn. I felt bad for blocking the isle but I needed that space. The woman was moving very slow and after the third toot I looked in my driver's side view mirror just in time to see an incredibly irate man, face fire engine red, teeth gritted stomping toward my door. I drew my KetTec P3AT in anticipation, but kept it unseen, and as he passed the rear door of my car he slammed the glass with the side of his right fist very hard. He stopped at my window and began screaming at the top of his lungs to move my %$#*&^ car or he was going to kick my %$#*)(^$#*^% a$$. So...I pointed my pistol at him. He began screaming "shoot me shoot me" over and over. I was trapped at this point with the little old lady backing out and the assailant's car parked behind me. I lowered my window a little and firmly advised him to back up, that I would defend myself. Thankfully the road cleared and I pulled into the space. They called the police and I waited. Every deputy in the county showed up. They were all very cordial, asked a few questions, had me and him fill out a statement, ran the serial# of my KelTec as well as the Colt M4 OPS .22 in the trunk. Neither of us pressed charges against the other, my pistol was returned and I and he went about our separate ways, me to a different WalMart. I've thought about it a lot since.

NWPilgrim · August 6, 2009, 10:47 AM

Glad it turned out well for you! 99% of firearms self defense do not involve shooting. Pretty amazing the guy did not back off when looking down the barrel of a gun.

Sounds like the guy had a few too many shots of java or just lost his job/house/wife/dog/Wii.

You exhibited good self discipline under pressure. Bet the adrenaline dump got you going.

Microgunner · August 6, 2009, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Bet the adrenaline dump got you going.

Very much so. Afterward I became nauseas from the adrenaline rush.

Fremmer · August 6, 2009, 11:06 AM

So what did pointing your pistol accomplish?

Dave P · August 6, 2009, 11:15 AM

Did the deps give you the impression he had a valid complaint against you?

He showed intent (verbally threatening you and slapping the window), he may have had the opportunity , etc etc.

What county was this?

pendennis · August 6, 2009, 11:45 AM

Didn't the driver of the truck commit assault by striking the vehicle and the window with his fist? He was clearly the aggressor, and Microgunner was in a clearly defensive position.

The moron was lucky he wasn't shot.

Microgunner · August 6, 2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

So what did pointing your pistol accomplish?

Well, it did stop him cold in his tracks and lowered his fists. But I found the whole situation very unpleasant.

Quote:

Did the deps give you the impression he had a valid complaint against you?

What county was this?

No, just the opposite. Hernando County.

Fremmer · August 6, 2009, 11:59 AM

What about just driving on to another parking space (moving out of his way)?
Sounds like you had an encounter with a real jerk. That stinks.

Microgunner · August 6, 2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

What about just driving on to another parking space (moving out of his way)?

By the time it had escalated to the point of confrontation the elderly woman, whose space I'd been waiting on, had begun backing out, trapping me between her and the assailant's car. I couldn't go anywhere.

Quote:

Sounds like you had an encounter with a real jerk. That stinks.

Yeah, I thought he was going to pop a gasket.

Uncle Buck · August 6, 2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Well, it did stop him cold in his tracks and lowered his fists. But I found the whole situation very unpleasant.

When you do not find it at all unpleasant, then you need to seek help. I do not think any normal person likes being put in this situation. Good Job.

Brian Pfleuger · August 6, 2009, 12:29 PM

I have to admit to being somewhat hesitant about the use of your gun being justified....

I wasn't there, so your own judgement overrules my internet conjecture but based solely on my interpretation of your story, and personal experiences with irate people, I would probably have ignored him... so long as he was unarmed.

oneounceload · August 6, 2009, 12:35 PM

I've had folks do that before - block everyone waiting for a close spot - some will be kind enough to use their signal to indicate the are waiting - I just go around.

It's the ones that double park in front in the fire zone and block two lanes that I mutter epithets to myself about.

Glad it turned out OK. Next time, don't open the window and give him a chance to try and gain entry. Stay calm, call 911 saying you're being attacked in the parking lot

Microgunner · August 6, 2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

I wasn't there, so your own judgement overrules my internet conjecture but based solely on my interpretation of your story, and personal experiences with irate people, I would probably have ignored him... so long as he was unarmed.

Truth be told, I wish it had gone that way as well. But before I had time to think it through my survival instinct required me to act. Hindsight is 20/20. As far as legalities are concerned, Florida statutes say I was in the right. God bless the retirees who instrumented these strong self defense laws.

Evan Thomas · August 6, 2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Truth be told, I wish it had gone that way as well. But before I had time to think it through my survival instinct required me to act. Hindsight is 20/20.

The very cliché I almost used in this post.

Parking lots do seem to bring out the worst in some people. Twice, recently, I've had another driver, going way too fast though a parking lot, cut me off and then gesture rudely and cuss me out for almost being in their way. I shrugged it off, but it's still unpleasant when this stuff happens.

For me, the lesson from your story is that I'll be a bit quicker just to move on and make another circle rather than get blocked in, if someone behind me is that irate. It's only a parking space...

Composer_1777 · August 6, 2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Glad it turned out well for you! 99% of firearms self defense do not involve shooting. Pretty amazing the guy did not back off when looking down the barrel of a gun.

He called the OPs bluff... When you point a gun at someone you better not be bluffing... I might have shot the guy, he was assaulting you, and your property.

Fremmer · August 6, 2009, 12:58 PM

Over a parking spot? Come on, now.

I wouldn't have parked there at all. Why, so that you can be parked next to some angry jerk? What if he'd walked back to get a gun in his car? I know the 'what if's' are endless, and I wasn't there, but it doesn't make much sense to me to get scared enough to have to point a gun at someone, and then to park yourself and stay in a bad situation.

hamr56 · August 6, 2009, 01:18 PM

We can sit here all day and throw out what ifs, its called "monday morning quarterbacking". If you feel your in danger, I have no problem with a person pulling their pistol, just be ready for the results. If you have it in your mind to be someones biatch your entire life that is your decision. Whos to say you didnt prevent him from hurting you?

I for one am glad your fine. No one can say what they would do in that situation until they are in it themselves.

Microgunner · August 6, 2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Over a parking spot? Come on, now.

I wouldn't have parked there at all. Why, so that you can be parked next to some angry jerk? What if he'd walked back to get a gun in his car? I know the 'what if's' are endless, and I wasn't there, but it doesn't make much sense to me to get scared enough to have to point a gun at someone, and then to park yourself and stay in a bad situation.

Couldn't move on at that point. I parked so that the police could be summoned because fleeing didn't seem like the thing to do. I had no intention of remaining after that, and left as soon as the Sheriff's Deputies were finished.

Dannyl · August 6, 2009, 01:28 PM

HI,
I say well done.
Here ( and possibly in the US, from what you are telling us) road-rage is a serious problem, a couple of years back a guy forced someone off the road, dragged him out of his car and beat him to death with a hockey stick.

Your gun, and the fact that you were decisive played a part in changing your agressor's mind and maybe keeping you from harm.

Brgds,

Danny

Dr. Strangelove · August 6, 2009, 01:57 PM

You had obviously decided that deadly force was justified when you pointed your pistol at the other party involved. If you feared major bodily harm or death, why would you not press charges against the man? If nothing else, at least he would think twice about doing that again, though you probably cured him...

Sounds like a bad situation to be in, but not one where a firearm needed to be involved.

KLRANGL · August 6, 2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Sounds like a bad situation to be in, but not one where a firearm needed to be involved.

Really?
If that doesn't sound like a situation where a firearm should be involved, I don't know what is... No place to flee to as your car is blocked from both ends. Keeping the windows up was a good idea, but that gun better have been out because there is no telling if he'll bash the windows to get to you, draw a gun of his own, or just walk away.
Sounds like microgunner did well by me, but I would have pressed charges for sure.

And it sounds like the cops agreed with you too. That says something right there...

Microgunner · August 6, 2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Sounds like a bad situation to be in, but not one where a firearm needed to be involved.

Very possibly true. But I made a decision long ago that if/when threatened with bodily injury to believe the aggressor. To not take him at his word seems unwise considering the potential. As far as pressing charges, I was just glad to be rid of the whole distasteful situation as soon as possible.

Wildalaska · August 6, 2009, 02:38 PM

MMQB...better choice would have been to keep the window closed, the gun hidden and call 911 right in front of him. You were safe inside the car and had no need to draw down until he took further action.

WildandthenhavetheguyprosecutedforbeingaviolentjerkAlaska ™

By the way under the facts as given if you would have shot him you would be prosecuted.

AirForceShooter · August 6, 2009, 02:41 PM

Respectfully:

You pull a gun you pull the trigger.

If you have no intention of shooting, then keep the gun in it's holster.

AFS

carguychris · August 6, 2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

MMQB...better choice would have been to keep the window closed, the gun hidden and call 911 right in front of him. You were safe inside the car and had no need to draw down until he took further action.

+1; I would not have drawn unless (a) it was evident that he had a weapon capable of penetrating the glass, or (b) there was more than one assailant.

If the parking lot was crowded, there's no doubt that there were multiple witnesses watching the loud confrontation, which would make it really easy to prosecute the knucklehead for threatening you and/or sue him for damage to your vehicle.

MMQB, yes, but I would be concerned that if I drew first, he would produce a weapon, and the situation would seriously escalate.

August 6, 2009, 10:35 AM	#1
Microgunner Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 3,324	Parking lot incident First, let me preface with the fact that Florida is a strong stand your ground state and we are not required to retreat in any fashion. That said, last Monday, while circling the very crowded parking lot for a handicap space (I get to park close, that's what makes me so popular) a space was finally opening up. I pulled up close and waited for the elderly woman to vacate the space. A gold Toyota behind me quickly became impatient and began tooting his horn. I felt bad for blocking the isle but I needed that space. The woman was moving very slow and after the third toot I looked in my driver's side view mirror just in time to see an incredibly irate man, face fire engine red, teeth gritted stomping toward my door. I drew my KetTec P3AT in anticipation, but kept it unseen, and as he passed the rear door of my car he slammed the glass with the side of his right fist very hard. He stopped at my window and began screaming at the top of his lungs to move my %$#&^ car or he was going to kick my %$#)(^$#^% a$$. So...I pointed my pistol at him. He began screaming "shoot me shoot me" over and over. I was trapped at this point with the little old lady backing out and the assailant's car parked behind me. I lowered my window a little and firmly advised him to back up, that I would defend myself. Thankfully the road cleared and I pulled into the space. They called the police and I waited. Every deputy in the county showed up. They were all very cordial, asked a few questions, had me and him fill out a statement, ran the serial# of my KelTec as well as the Colt M4 OPS .22 in the trunk. Neither of us pressed charges against the other, my pistol was returned and I and he went about our separate ways, me to a different WalMart. I've thought about it a lot since. __________________ Proud NRA Benefactor Member*

August 6, 2009, 10:47 AM	#2
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	Glad it turned out well for you! 99% of firearms self defense do not involve shooting. Pretty amazing the guy did not back off when looking down the barrel of a gun. Sounds like the guy had a few too many shots of java or just lost his job/house/wife/dog/Wii. You exhibited good self discipline under pressure. Bet the adrenaline dump got you going. __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

August 6, 2009, 11:15 AM	#5
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	Did the deps give you the impression he had a valid complaint against you? He showed intent (verbally threatening you and slapping the window), he may have had the opportunity , etc etc. What county was this? __________________ I think this country is screwed.

August 6, 2009, 12:29 PM	#11
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	I have to admit to being somewhat hesitant about the use of your gun being justified.... I wasn't there, so your own judgement overrules my internet conjecture but based solely on my interpretation of your story, and personal experiences with irate people, I would probably have ignored him... so long as he was unarmed. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

August 6, 2009, 12:35 PM	#12
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	I've had folks do that before - block everyone waiting for a close spot - some will be kind enough to use their signal to indicate the are waiting - I just go around. It's the ones that double park in front in the fire zone and block two lanes that I mutter epithets to myself about. Glad it turned out OK. Next time, don't open the window and give him a chance to try and gain entry. Stay calm, call 911 saying you're being attacked in the parking lot Last edited by oneounceload; August 6, 2009 at 04:30 PM.

August 6, 2009, 11:06 AM	#4
Fremmer Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2005 Location: Nebraska Posts: 3,482	So what did pointing your pistol accomplish?

August 6, 2009, 11:45 AM	#6
pendennis Junior member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 572	Didn't the driver of the truck commit assault by striking the vehicle and the window with his fist? He was clearly the aggressor, and Microgunner was in a clearly defensive position. The moron was lucky he wasn't shot.

August 6, 2009, 11:59 AM	#8
Fremmer Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2005 Location: Nebraska Posts: 3,482	What about just driving on to another parking space (moving out of his way)? Sounds like you had an encounter with a real jerk. That stinks.

August 6, 2009, 12:58 PM	#16
Fremmer Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2005 Location: Nebraska Posts: 3,482	Over a parking spot? Come on, now. I wouldn't have parked there at all. Why, so that you can be parked next to some angry jerk? What if he'd walked back to get a gun in his car? I know the 'what if's' are endless, and I wasn't there, but it doesn't make much sense to me to get scared enough to have to point a gun at someone, and then to park yourself and stay in a bad situation. Last edited by Fremmer; August 6, 2009 at 12:59 PM. Reason: didn't know I used inappropriate language, oops.

August 6, 2009, 01:18 PM	#17
hamr56 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2008 Posts: 123	We can sit here all day and throw out what ifs, its called "monday morning quarterbacking". If you feel your in danger, I have no problem with a person pulling their pistol, just be ready for the results. If you have it in your mind to be someones biatch your entire life that is your decision. Whos to say you didnt prevent him from hurting you? I for one am glad your fine. No one can say what they would do in that situation until they are in it themselves. __________________ The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen. ~Tommy Smothers

August 6, 2009, 01:28 PM	#19
Dannyl Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Cape Town - South Africa Posts: 627	Well Done, Beware of people with "road-rage" HI, I say well done. Here ( and possibly in the US, from what you are telling us) road-rage is a serious problem, a couple of years back a guy forced someone off the road, dragged him out of his car and beat him to death with a hockey stick. Your gun, and the fact that you were decisive played a part in changing your agressor's mind and maybe keeping you from harm. Brgds, Danny

August 6, 2009, 01:57 PM	#20
Dr. Strangelove Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2008 Location: Athens, GA Posts: 1,436	Why would you not have pressed charges? You had obviously decided that deadly force was justified when you pointed your pistol at the other party involved. If you feared major bodily harm or death, why would you not press charges against the man? If nothing else, at least he would think twice about doing that again, though you probably cured him... Sounds like a bad situation to be in, but not one where a firearm needed to be involved. Last edited by Dr. Strangelove; August 6, 2009 at 02:07 PM. Reason: changed verb tense

August 6, 2009, 02:38 PM	#23
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	MMQB...better choice would have been to keep the window closed, the gun hidden and call 911 right in front of him. You were safe inside the car and had no need to draw down until he took further action. WildandthenhavetheguyprosecutedforbeingaviolentjerkAlaska ™ By the way under the facts as given if you would have shot him you would be prosecuted. Last edited by Wildalaska; August 6, 2009 at 02:59 PM.

August 6, 2009, 02:41 PM	#24
AirForceShooter Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Location: Sarasota (sort of) Florida Posts: 1,296	Respectfully: You pull a gun you pull the trigger. If you have no intention of shooting, then keep the gun in it's holster. AFS Last edited by Bud Helms; August 6, 2009 at 06:02 PM. Reason: A little too strong.