Calif AG goes after gun shows

[DC]

Tuesday, 11 May 1999 18:44 (GMT)

(UPI Spotlight)

Calif. A.G. goes after gun shows

SACRAMENTO, Calif., May 11 (UPI) - California Attorney General Bill

Lockyer says (Tuesday) his undercover agents recently bought several

illegal weapons at a mammoth gun show in Pomona - including a rocket

launcher capable of taking out "a tank or police car." Lockyer says

assault weapons, illegal machine gun conversion kits, plastic explosives

and even flame throwers were sold openly for cash with no questions

asked. He reported the case at a Capitol news conference on legislation

to tighten controls on gun shows and set up a gun law enforcement unit

in the state Department of Justice.


Copyright 1999 by United Press International

I don't believe this...and I don't mean I am incredulous...I flat out think this is a pack of lies. Think about it...if these things were actually bought openly, it would be splattered all over the news; names named, pictures, video tape, soccer moms ripping the doors off the Statehouse. I bet there will be no prosecutions, because there was no crime. God I loathe these putrid corrupt liars



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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"

[bookkie]

I doubt the truth of his statements also. Although I did not attend the gun show sited, I have attended many gun shows in the area. Including the one's held at cal expo in Sakajamento. Not once did I ever see any one sell anything illegal. There were a couple of booths set up with displays. One was a tompson 45. I asked the guy if he would sell it and was told no. If it is as widespread as they make it out, then one should be able to see it everywhere. Instead, I the purchases I made were all required to go through brady & CA 10 day waiting period.

Richard

[John/az2]

I believe that he should take that "Rocket launcher" and shove it up his shaded sphincter and pull the trigger, if it exists at all...

When is the next earthquake due...Kalifornia needs some "cleansing".

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John/az

"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."

www.countdown9199.com

[John/az2]

If it seems that I'm a little bit "juiced", it's because I just got done reading that post from AR15.com.

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John/az

"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."

www.countdown9199.com

[PKAY]

I attended the show in question. I saw no illegal transactions, although the L.A. Times reported that five people were arrested by undercover police for selling illegally, cited, and released OR. The show always has transfer dealers located centrally throughout the display buildings for the convenience of buyers and sellers. Perhaps what pisses Lockyer off most is the fact that more than 50,000 gun enthusiasts attended the affair!
BTW, in my purchase of ammo (200 rounds of 30-06), I and all ammo purchasers had to fill out a "form" with a bold POMONA POLICE DEPARTMENT header requiring full name, Driver License #, address, phone number, type of ammo, and number of rounds. When asked about this "new requirement," the ammo dealer (MIWALL) said it was a new local (city of Pomona) requirement.

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Safe shooting - PKAY

[DC]

PKAY...

"I saw no illegal transactions,
although the L.A. Times reported that five people were arrested by
undercover police for selling illegally, cited, and released OR."

Could it be that these "illegal sellers" just didn't have a show vendor's license? Cited and OR release is like a traffic ticket, not firearms violations

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"

[Elker_43]

Well, none of this suprises me. I started wondering if the hard questions had been asked by the liberal press when this was being reported by the Calif. AG. In this undercover sting, how many laws were broken? How many felonies were indicated as having been committed? HOW MANY ARRESTS WERE MADE? This just continues to make my blood boil. Gun law after gunlaw...no arrests, and the "Bad Guys" just continue down the road with the law enforcement spouting off about "assault weapons", plastic explosives, ROCKET LAUNCHERS???? More Laws and NO ARRESTS!!!!

I was so mad, I called Lockyers office. Took me 25 minutes to speak to a human voice. The very nice lady said all she could do was send (FAX) me a copy of the press release and that was it. They will not take or answer any questions over the telephone. They will only take written questions by mail. What a sad and corrupt county we are beginning to be. We are being lead to the slaughter guys! Write to them I am. Call them, maybe they will start to understand that we law abidding citizens and firearm owners are not going to take it lying down. Here is the address & numbers:
State of California
Office of the Attorney General
Department of Justice
P.O. Box 944255
Sacramento, CA 94244-2550
1-800-952-9555
916) 445-9555

[.]

Rocket launchers are readily available on the open market. Not a big demand for them except as visual props and conversation pieces. The lack of a rocket renders it useless and merely just another piece of plastic techno-trash. However, I guess you could launch bottle rockets and roman candles from it. I know that CA is environmentally friendly, but I doubt one of these would take out a CA police cruiser. Might startle a policeman on a bicycle, however.

[Karanas]

You folks out there in California DO have a reputation for being crazy, but a ROCKET LAUNCHER!?!?
It can't be true though, or my good buddy Dan Rather and all his pals would have smeared that story all over the national news.
Boy, the B.S. is really getting deep. It's way past the hip boots level, deeper than snorkle depth. It must be nice to be able to tell all the lies you want and never have anyone call you on it.
The problem though is that the more crap they get away with, the more brazen and unbelievable their lies become. Ordinarily, this is where they should screw up and have everybody respond with a collective "WHAT"?!
Now if I could just find some way of convincing myself that the average citizen in this great country isn't a brain dead moron who can be programmed easier than a VCR, I could probably go to bed tonight and dream sweet dreams.

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"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once"

[DC]

Ok, there was a lil blurb on my news: evening news is 1/2 hr local, then 1/2 hr network, then 1 hr local...starting at 5:00pm

at 6:37 pm sandwiched between a cute lil Minnesota duckling rescue story and some new genetic birth defect test was our corrupt lying AG. Man this was staged!
Camera pans on a room with maybe 30 seats and 5 folks seated...a chalk board behind Lockyer with "guns, assault weapons, violence" and other buzz words. A demo table next to the Legal Liar with "replica assault weapons" as examples of what the undercover agents bought.

This pithy quote: "There were so many illegal weapons and transactions occurring openly, that 7 undercover agents were only able to cover 1% of the 5000 vendors present!!!"

No arrests were mentioned, no imminent prosecutions were mentioned, nothing other than the chief State LIAR throwing his support for the need to regulate gunshows since they are one of the main sources for illegal weapons.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"

[Destructo6]

As usual, the facts have been greatly exaggerated.

The LA Times ran a piece on the following Monday and it stated that 5 men were arrested during the Saturday show, which is the day I attended. Why and what were not mentioned. Seeing as how far left the Times is, they certainly would have splashed that all over the front page.

I saw nothing overtly illegal there. As usual, there were a fair number of police officers in attendance also.

[Jeff Thomas]

Waaalllll, you folks in Caleefornea are just pikers. Rocket launchers? Assault weapons? Big deal.

In Arizona we've got Apache Helicopters, and M1A1 tanks! Hell, we used to have nuclear weapons here too! (And, maybe still do ...)

'Course, you've got to sign up with Uncle Sam for a few years to git yore hands on that hardware, but that's just a lil' ol' detail, ya know.

I suppose our AG just hasn't got the publicity machine yore AG has ...

I've seen a bazooka at a gun show, but same problem ... no ammo. Don't you just love what passes for truth and the American way these days - just say something that is technically true, but leave out a few little details. What a crock.

[Elker_43]

I just received this message from a friend of mine after reading these postings:

Dan,
You know I'm on your side but, it seems to me that the NRA, GOA, etc. ought to stablish and fund a citizens group that investigates these allogiations and reports the facts to the public at large. Making alligations and slurs is just alienating the non-gun owner public from our cause, we shouldn't say anything until we are sure of the facts. We also need to educate the masses on the importance of the 2nd amendment to a free society. Its frustrating to me that we gun owners are not focusing all our energies on a constructive planned and organized campaign to set the record straight.
At least that is my opinion. Sorry to bend your ear.
Chuck

[PKAY]

DC - I just sent off the following email to Bill Lockyer:

Hey Bill,

I was at the Great Western Gun Show attending Saturday only. I saw no illegal sales whatsoever. I'm interested in that as of last November even "curios and relics" (firearms 50 years and older) required a California background check and 10 day wait.

I hope you and your folks are going to display not "replicas" but what was actually purchased by your agents for the public and press to see: the "assault weapons" and "rocket launcher" with "projectile." Also, the "fully automatic conversion kits" your press release refers to.

Could your "rocket launcher" really be a flare gun? As far as "assault weapons" are concerned, or any firearm less than 100 years old, all require transfer dealer action and the California waiting period. Also, full auto conversion kits can only be sold to a Class 3 Federal Firearms Licensed Dealer. In such sales all NFA rules apply.

Have arrests been made? Charges filed? We who attend gun shows regularly follow the law as it relates to guns as well as other aspects of life here in California. Are you implying that 5,000 other tables offering firearms and firearms paraphenalia were conducting illegal sales? If so, sir, I suggest your comments slander good citizens many of whom are combat veterans.

I should very much appreciate a response from you, sir.

Sincerely,

Perry Kneisel
Redondo Beach, CA

[Destructo6]

I'll bet those "rocket launchers" were dewat or similar. Anybody can buy or simulate a rocket launcher, look at "Star Wars." I guess with the proliferation of blasters and phaser, we'll need to ban those too.

The AG said there were so many illegal weapons, they ran out of "buy" money in a few minutes. They had all of $4000 which wouldn't even buy you a single HK41.

[DC]

PKAY...
I called (using the number Elker furnished)...took forever and as soon as I stated why I was calling, SHE HUNG UP ON ME!!!
So, after I calmed down I faxed a note demanding details, arrest and case numbers, charges and names of the arrestees.
Seriously doubt I will get a response.

I called my local TV station that ran that pap PR piece and asked them if it wasn't curious that no names, charges or details were given; and didn't they think that if machine guns and live rocket launchers were really purchased, wouldn't the AG be crowing about it?
They didn't care...its just 60 secs to fill air time

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"

[PKAY]

DC - The hang up from the AG's office is most interesting!

Last night on KCET's "Life and Times" Pat Morrison, commentator and columnist for the L.A. Times (and, I might add, notoriously anti-gun) spewed forth Lockyer's pap with a smirk and a smile; no photos, video, names, nuttin'.

This issue should be pursued and Lockyer pressed to the wall. I'm wondering if any of his agents showed I.D. and received special treatment from licensed sellers because they were LEO's then touted how "easy it was to buy an 'assault weapon.'"

Something stinks here, smells like the politics of horse [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] and hysteria.

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Safe shooting - PKAY

[DC]

I'm wondering if they purchased from a class 3 dealer legally and then stretched the truth about machine guns being freely available

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"

[James K]

I don't know about CA, but here's what happened in Maryland a couple of years ago.

The state police were told by the Governor to back his campaign against "assault weapons." So they decided to get all the AWs out of the property room and display them for the TV cameras. OOOPS! No AWs in the property room except for one lonely .22 carbine. So the MSP go to their own arms rooms and get every AR-15 they can find. Still not enough, so they get local police to "lend" AR-15s. But what about the AK47 "da Guv" has been making noise about? Not a one. So the MSP bought ($750 each) two AK47's so they could display them.

The MSP spokesman said "we took these out of the room where we store guns used in crime." That was true - they ran all the guns through the prop room so they could truthfully say they "took them out." Note that he did not say the guns were used in crime, though he deliberately left that impression.

Do they lie? Of course they lie, even when they are technically telling the truth. The rocket launcher, if it existed, could have been brought to the show by the AG's people, then "sold" to the undercover agent. So it would have "been bought at the gun show."

Remember, Mr. Clinton never lied; it depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

Jim

[Jeff OTMG]

Plastic exlplosives and flame throwers? Boy, and I thought we had good gun shows in Texas! I need to go to Ca. Flame throwers are not controlled here, as they are not by definition considered firearms, but just try to find one for sale.

[Karanas]

It's no wonder that flamethrower was for sale. With the price of gas as high as it is in CA it must cost a fortune to fill that sucker up at your local Exxon station.

[PKAY]

I scoured the L.A. Times this morning on the Lockyer illegal gunshow sales matter...not a peep!!

Maybe and investigative reporter needs to pursue this issue. Any reporters out there looking for a story?

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Safe shooting - PKAY