How similar are these powders?

1stmar · November 18, 2012, 07:11 PM

The lgs has an abundance of accurate powders. I usually use imr4064 but they don't have it. They do have aa4064. Has anyone ever compared these 2? Can I use the same load data, should I expect the performance to be the same, velocity and accuracy? Treat it like any other lot change...

hodaka · November 18, 2012, 07:16 PM

I have found the Accurate 4064 to be interchangeable with my IMR. Still work up the load just liike you are changing batches.

FrankenMauser · November 18, 2012, 07:32 PM

They're very similar, as far as powder charge weight for a given cartridge/bullet combination. But, they are different powders and should be treated as such.

Velocity and accuracy are anyone's guess. Every rifle has its own preferences.

mehavey · November 18, 2012, 07:48 PM

QuickLoad tells me they are not the same:

Equal weights (41.7gr) in a 308 behind a 168 SMK
AA-4064: 43,800psi/2,435fps
IMR4064: 49,000psi/2,470fps

Burn characteristics are different across the board:

ALSO (big also), Accurate is constantly getting their powders from different sources. Take extra care even changing lots.

Jimro · November 18, 2012, 07:59 PM

Same powder, different lots. Both made in Canada, I assume at the General Dynamics powder plant.

As always with different lots, do another load workup accordingly.

Jimro

mehavey · November 18, 2012, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Same powder, different lots. Both made in Canada, I assume at the General Dynamics powder plant.

If so, they have changed sources again, from their time producing "XMR"4064 manufactured in Czech Republic by Synthesia.
(Anyone have a new container with the manufacturer's origin on it now?)

As noted from Helmut's actual QL enclosed bomb data above, his Accurate-4064 lot and his IMR4064 lot were quite a bit off from one another -- 5,000psi in the 308Win example shown.

Take care.....

FrankenMauser · November 18, 2012, 10:26 PM

Even if they have been coming from the same place lately (I don't believe so), the granules are different - which changes burn characteristics.

AA4064 granules are approximately 0.055" long and 0.040" in diameter.
IMR4064 granules are approximately 0.080" long and 0.033" in diameter.

Different powders.
Treat them as such.

Jimro · November 18, 2012, 11:19 PM

Accurate Arms lists AA4064 as "Made in Canada."

As far as I know, only the GD Valleyfield plant in Canada is putting out extruded rifle powders, I'd love to know if that isn't the case.

Jimro

November 18, 2012, 07:11 PM	#1
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	How similar are these powders? The lgs has an abundance of accurate powders. I usually use imr4064 but they don't have it. They do have aa4064. Has anyone ever compared these 2? Can I use the same load data, should I expect the performance to be the same, velocity and accuracy? Treat it like any other lot change...

November 18, 2012, 07:32 PM	#3
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	They're very similar, as far as powder charge weight for a given cartridge/bullet combination. But, they are different powders and should be treated as such. Velocity and accuracy are anyone's guess. Every rifle has its own preferences. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

November 18, 2012, 07:59 PM	#5
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	Same powder, different lots. Both made in Canada, I assume at the General Dynamics powder plant. As always with different lots, do another load workup accordingly. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

November 18, 2012, 10:26 PM	#7
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Even if they have been coming from the same place lately (I don't believe so), the granules are different - which changes burn characteristics. AA4064 granules are approximately 0.055" long and 0.040" in diameter. IMR4064 granules are approximately 0.080" long and 0.033" in diameter. Different powders. Treat them as such. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

November 18, 2012, 11:19 PM	#8
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	Accurate Arms lists AA4064 as "Made in Canada." As far as I know, only the GD Valleyfield plant in Canada is putting out extruded rifle powders, I'd love to know if that isn't the case. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

November 18, 2012, 07:16 PM	#2
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	I have found the Accurate 4064 to be interchangeable with my IMR. Still work up the load just liike you are changing batches.

November 18, 2012, 07:48 PM	#4
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	QuickLoad tells me they are not the same: Equal weights (41.7gr) in a 308 behind a 168 SMK AA-4064: 43,800psi/2,435fps IMR4064: 49,000psi/2,470fps Burn characteristics are different across the board: ALSO (big also), Accurate is constantly getting their powders from different sources. Take extra care even changing lots.