Kieth bullets

william45 · April 13, 1999, 07:21 PM

I'm would like to a source for Elmer Kieth orginal design cast bullets in .45colt,.41mag.
There are many swc on the market but not to original design!I like would buy retail.Not cast my own. thanks for any help!

------------------
SIXGUN

Quantrill · April 14, 1999, 03:30 PM

Most of the famous Keith bullets are listed in his book,"SIXGUNS" by mold number and manufacturer. If you wanted to buy retail, you would have to match up the mold numbers with cast bullet manufacturers. For instance, Lyman 358429 [the 168gr semi-wadcutter Keith used in .38spec. and 357mag. You would now have to find a caster selling that particular bullet. Many small shops still do this. Keith designed many bullets for many mold manufacturers and some were improvements on earlier attempts. This is why his book,"SIXGUNS" is important-so you can tell the difference.
Wm Quantrill

Paul B. · April 17, 1999, 12:12 AM

I use RCBS's 45-255 bullet in .45 Colt. This is very close to Keith's design. Many mold manufacturers put a rounded lubrication groove in their "Keith" style bullets so that they will drop more easily from the mold. This results in an easier to make bullet, but it does reduce the amount of bullet lube. The "true" Keith design has a square lube groove, which sometimes is more difficult to make drop from the mold. I think most cast bullet manufacturers would use the rounded groove bullet molds in the interest of speedy bullet making. I have both versions in 44 caliber which I shoot more often, and both seem to work out well, even on the hot loads. I agree on the above post about reading SIXGUNS. It's a great book. Also read his book, HELL. I WAS THERE. Fascinating reading about a great man. Some of what he says appears to be brag, but too many people back him up. I believe he did do what he says he did. I hope this helps somewhat. And yes, I cast my own.
Paul B.

COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

ghostsix · November 3, 1999, 10:41 PM

Hensly&Gibs makes the Keith moulds.

John Lawson · November 4, 1999, 09:51 AM

My favorite is Keith's 173 gr .38 special bullet, and having recently bought a 38/44 Smith of '46 vintage, i want to have my double cavity Lyman mould fitted up to my Master Caster.
Do any of you gentlemen who use Keith bullets cast them the way Elmer did, i.e. a ratio of 10 or 12 to 1 lead and tin with no antimony? Would be interesting to hear your results.

Paul B. · November 4, 1999, 11:29 AM

John. If memory serves, Keiths bullet alloy was 16 to 1 lead and tin. I've never used it, much preferring to use wheel weight metal as is in handgun loads. In rifle loads I may, or may not heat treat the bullets, depending on what I am shooting them in.
Paul B.

Quantrill · November 4, 1999, 01:17 PM

Keith does indeed say 16 to 1 for cast bullets and 15 to 1 for "hard bullets". He then goes on to say that antimony makes for a better alloy because of Tin's inability to stand up to greater heat.
Quantrill

Randy Garrett · November 6, 1999, 02:46 PM

Those of you looking for mold blocks that cast Keith bullets need not look to Hensley & Gibbs, as they closed their doors this last summer. This is a huge loss to bullet casters, as Wayne Gibbs was the master of all block cutters. Unfortunately, these days most folks are not interested in casting their own bullets. As one who has many H&Gs blocks and depends upon their superiority, I view the end of that fine company as a catastrophy for the serious bullet caster.

Quantrill · November 7, 1999, 02:42 PM

Some of the mold numbers mentioned in "Sixguns" are still being made by Lyman. I would guess they are the same as Keith designed. Damn shame about Hensley and Gibbs.
Quantrill

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April 13, 1999, 07:21 PM	#1
william45 Junior Member Join Date: April 11, 1999 Location: MILACA,MN USA Posts: 5	I'm would like to a source for Elmer Kieth orginal design cast bullets in .45colt,.41mag. There are many swc on the market but not to original design!I like would buy retail.Not cast my own. thanks for any help! ------------------ SIXGUN

April 14, 1999, 03:30 PM	#2
Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 725	Most of the famous Keith bullets are listed in his book,"SIXGUNS" by mold number and manufacturer. If you wanted to buy retail, you would have to match up the mold numbers with cast bullet manufacturers. For instance, Lyman 358429 [the 168gr semi-wadcutter Keith used in .38spec. and 357mag. You would now have to find a caster selling that particular bullet. Many small shops still do this. Keith designed many bullets for many mold manufacturers and some were improvements on earlier attempts. This is why his book,"SIXGUNS" is important-so you can tell the difference. Wm Quantrill

April 17, 1999, 12:12 AM	#3
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,800	I use RCBS's 45-255 bullet in .45 Colt. This is very close to Keith's design. Many mold manufacturers put a rounded lubrication groove in their "Keith" style bullets so that they will drop more easily from the mold. This results in an easier to make bullet, but it does reduce the amount of bullet lube. The "true" Keith design has a square lube groove, which sometimes is more difficult to make drop from the mold. I think most cast bullet manufacturers would use the rounded groove bullet molds in the interest of speedy bullet making. I have both versions in 44 caliber which I shoot more often, and both seem to work out well, even on the hot loads. I agree on the above post about reading SIXGUNS. It's a great book. Also read his book, HELL. I WAS THERE. Fascinating reading about a great man. Some of what he says appears to be brag, but too many people back him up. I believe he did do what he says he did. I hope this helps somewhat. And yes, I cast my own. Paul B. COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

November 3, 1999, 10:41 PM	#4
ghostsix Member Join Date: November 3, 1999 Location: u.s. Posts: 45	Hensly&Gibs makes the Keith moulds.

November 4, 1999, 09:51 AM	#5
John Lawson Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 1999 Posts: 281	My favorite is Keith's 173 gr .38 special bullet, and having recently bought a 38/44 Smith of '46 vintage, i want to have my double cavity Lyman mould fitted up to my Master Caster. Do any of you gentlemen who use Keith bullets cast them the way Elmer did, i.e. a ratio of 10 or 12 to 1 lead and tin with no antimony? Would be interesting to hear your results.

November 4, 1999, 11:29 AM	#6
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,800	John. If memory serves, Keiths bullet alloy was 16 to 1 lead and tin. I've never used it, much preferring to use wheel weight metal as is in handgun loads. In rifle loads I may, or may not heat treat the bullets, depending on what I am shooting them in. Paul B.

November 4, 1999, 01:17 PM	#7
Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 725	Keith does indeed say 16 to 1 for cast bullets and 15 to 1 for "hard bullets". He then goes on to say that antimony makes for a better alloy because of Tin's inability to stand up to greater heat. Quantrill

November 6, 1999, 02:46 PM	#8
Randy Garrett Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 1999 Location: Chehalis, WA Posts: 142	Those of you looking for mold blocks that cast Keith bullets need not look to Hensley & Gibbs, as they closed their doors this last summer. This is a huge loss to bullet casters, as Wayne Gibbs was the master of all block cutters. Unfortunately, these days most folks are not interested in casting their own bullets. As one who has many H&Gs blocks and depends upon their superiority, I view the end of that fine company as a catastrophy for the serious bullet caster.

November 7, 1999, 02:42 PM	#9
Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 725	Some of the mold numbers mentioned in "Sixguns" are still being made by Lyman. I would guess they are the same as Keith designed. Damn shame about Hensley and Gibbs. Quantrill