How do you defend yourself against an angry mob?

[PT111]

Glenn has already fled. The one time I saw I had an angry mob coming my way - not for me, BTW but for someone else - I beamed out of there.

Elvis has left the building. Please Feet, don't fail me now!

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Actually it was an illegal u-turn on a one-way street and down a side street.

Worked for me.

[rusherbob]

I agree with taking the high ground, pull the ladder up with you if you go on the roof. Driving away is better. Even better is to not be the only armed person around when this kind of situation arises.

[209]

Take the LA Riots of 1992-

Reginald Oliver Denny, a white truck driver who stopped at a traffic light at the intersection of Florence and South Normandie Avenues, was dragged from his vehicle and severely beaten by a mob of local black residents as news helicopters hovered above, recording every blow, including a concrete fragment connecting with Denny's temple and a cinder block thrown at his head as he lay unconscious in the street.

If he only had a gun… and the presence of mind to use it. He would probably not have been dragged out of his truck. A few rounds.. a few members of the angry mob down.. he could have probably driven off to safety. Legal use-of-force? IMO- heck yes.

Or he could have driven off and possibly ran over a few angry "mobsters/ettes". Legal use of force? Again, I would say yes. But it flies in the face of one’s humanity to do something like that and often times people hesitate to be so cold and calculating.

When viewed in the right context, the question can be easily answered. Throwing different facts into it can make it extremely difficult or impossible to answer. Those pesky "what ifs" come into play. For the above instance, we know the outcome and intent of the mob. It's easy to say killing a few of them would have been justified.

[markj]

If he only had a gun

If he had only locked the door of his semi.........

[209]

If he had only locked the door of his semi.........

That too. But the crew that attacked him wouldn't have been delayed long by a locked door.

[mpage]

Here are a some more incidents of this type (aside from the other incident discussed in another thread) which have happened recently; what's interesting is that some in Philadelphia appear to be coordinated through the racially-oriented "ourspace" site:

Man arrested in 'flash mob' beating

By DAN GERINGER
Philadelphia Daily News

[email protected] 215-854-5961

Police have made an arrest in what one detective called the "vicious" and "brutal" beating of a 53-year-old maintenance mechanic who was bicycling home from work during the May 30 "flash mob" attacks on South Street.

Stephen Lyde, 21, was one of eight males who knocked the victim off his bike and "brutally beat him to unconsciousness," leaving him with internal injuries and skull, rib and facial fractures, said Capt. Laurence D. Nodiff, commander of South Detective Division.

They robbed him and left him to "bleed in the street," Nodiff said.

The victim was on life support at Hahnemann University Hospital for days, Nodiff said, and two weeks after the attack, he remains hospitalized in stable condition.

Lyde was charged with aggravated assault, robbery and related offenses. In 2005 he was charged with aggravated assault and robbery, but the charges were dismissed, according to online court records.

Praising the "hard investigative work" of the eight detectives and warrant officers who stood with him yesterday at 1st District Police Headquarters, Nodiff said that police expect to make additional arrests soon.

No severe injuries were reported in initial media accounts of youthful "flash mobs" - numbering in the thousands and organized via cell phones and online social networks - that overran South Street, terrorizing pedestrians and motorists.

A city employee and a taxi driver incurred minor injuries when they were pulled out of their cars and assaulted. About the same time, a swarm of teens looted a convenience store at Broad and Catharine streets, according to video surveillance released days after the near-riot.

But the case of the beaten cyclist - by far the most severe incident - was first brought to public attention this week by Daily News columnist Ronnie Polaneczky, who detailed the man's fight for his life in Hahnemann's intensive care unit after suffering a frontal-lobe injury.

Yesterday, the mother of the man, whom Polaneczky referred to as "John," said that she was pleased about the arrest.

"We feel great that the cops got him and hope they get the rest of them," she said. The police "need to get them off the streets and keep them off the streets.

"You don't want to be a prisoner in your own home while the riff-raff run the streets."

John's close friend, Marcia Houston-Leslie, said: "I am glad. You don't want crime like this to go unpaid for. If people do this to someone, they need to be held accountable for it."

"The police have been very wonderful," John's mother said. "They have called us and been up to see [John] and really been on top of this."

Capt. Nodiff said he hopes this arrest sends a message to those who assaulted people during the May 30 "flash mob" turmoil.

Nodiff said that on South Street last weekend, extra police were deployed and no serious incidents were reported. Again this weekend, he said, police will be out in force continuing to show "zero tolerance" for violence.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/47984426.html

New York:

A white Valley Stream man remained in critical condition Monday after police said he was beaten by a group of young African-American assailants in what authorities are investigating as a possible hate crime.

The 30-year-old victim, a Long Island Rail Road worker, was not identified by police, who said the attack was unprovoked.

The victim was repeatedly punched and kicked in the face, head and body at about 12:30 a.m. Sunday by a group of about 12 to 15 male and female assailants, said Nassau police Det. Sgt. Anthony Repalone. The man had gone outside to move his car off the street during a July Fourth party when he was attacked, Repalone said.

He sustained a concussion and fractured eye socket, Repalone said. "There is no motive at this time," Repalone said Monday.


Investigators are looking to see whether the assault was motivated by race, he said.

"A witness heard someone in the crowd make a comment that the police will follow up to determine whether or not this attack was racially motivated," Repalone said. "It's too early at this time to make that determination."

Repalone would not describe what was said that could lead police to determine that the man was beaten because of his race.

Monday, a woman, who did not want to be identified but said the victim was her brother, said he has multiple fractures in his face and jaw.

She said a fight in the group of teenagers had started before her brother went to move his car.

"They were having a conflict," she said. "I assume maybe they thought he was getting involved."

The mother's 911 call was picked up by New York City emergency services and redirected to Nassau County, Repalone said. The call was disconnected and the Nassau operator called back, Repalone said, but was unable to reach anyone.

The man did not seek medical treatment, and his family did not call police again until more than 13 hours after the attack, Repalone said. Police said the man and his family may have underestimated the extent of his injuries. He was eventually taken to South Nassau Communities Hospital in Oceanside, where police said he remained in critical but stable condition Monday.

He parked his car in the driveway and that's when the teenagers approached him, police said.
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/cr...,2473140.story

[PT111]

Unfortunately mob attacks do exist and I don't think there is a right answer. Other than avoid them if possible or run if you can, anything else may or may not work.

[akamdg]

I think that it would be best to avoid the mob but if nothing else it's better to fight back. As soon as bullets starting flying most mobs are going to scatter. People in a mob know they're relatively safe when attacking an unarmed victim. Unless a mob is extremely motivated and expecting to be shot at, I don't think they're going to brave through gunfire to reach an intended victim.

Like in those articles listed above. Those flash mobs consisted of a group of teenagers who were attacking and mugging what they saw as easy vicitms. I highly doubt that these flash mobs are so determined to attack and mug one particular victim, that they're going to take casualties and keep advancing.

Anyway, that's my .02 cents.

[Beauhooligan]

First up, I think my chances of having to defend myself against an angry mob is right up there with defending myself against Bigfoot or Alien abduction. I say this because I have pretty good situational awareness and before things get ugly enough for angry mobs to form I'm going to be unaccessing the area. I've seen and committed entirely too much violence in my life to want to be in any situation where I have to cause any more harm. So, my first acts would be to call 911, then run away by any means available. My left knee is a replacement, and my spine is fused in two places, so I can't run far. If that doesn't get it I'd find a place to hole up, into a structure I could secure, up a fire escape to a roof or into a alley where I can narrow my area of access, maybe get some cover or at least conceilment behind a dumpster or some wooden pallets. My carry gun is a SA XD40 SC with a round up the pipe and a 9 round magazine, and two more 9 round spare mags, so I can't hold the Alamo for long. I'd keep my head down and hope the mob would pass, and have my spare magazines ready, and begin praying. But, if I was not lucky I'd bring my piece up as my opponents closed on me. When I thought there was no other option I'd begin methodical fire at the guy in the lead. If there were a large number of them I'd fire single shots to the upper chest. If they are not as numerous I give each a double tap, then proceed to the next. At a certain point the BGs are going to figure continuing to attack is a losing proposition, they would swarm over me while I was making a magazine change or throw a Molotov cocktail back to take me out. I've been to war on a Navy PBR in the Mekong and saw better trained and experienced men than me die despite their best efforts, so I don't have any illusions. And as Hank Williams Sr. said, "I'll never get out of this world alive."

A better and more useful topic would be how to survive an attack by 4 of 5 street gang members who try and split up and surround you.

[scottaschultz]

A better and more useful topic would be how to survive an attack by 4 of 5 street gang members who try and split up and surround you.

As I have posted here before (and was apparently ignored), street gangs have their own brand of justice. They take this "An eye for an eye" thing very seriously and very literally. If you kill or even injure a gang member, you have upset a delicate balance and the only way to right the scales is for them to take out retribution on the person who took out one of their own. Don't underestimate their abilities. They have the manpower, the firepower and the money to follow through. They will not rest until your are dead... period! They have no respect for human life. The would just as soon kill you as give you the time of day. They have been known to shoot people just for wearing the colors of a rival gang on their turf.

So if you think this crowd will dispurse once you have doubled tapped one of the gang members, may god have mercy on your soul!

Scott

[maestro pistolero]

If I start to run and they pick up the pace, and there are verbal taunts or threats, there can be little doubt of their intention. I'll run a short ways looking for a quick cover position, but whether I find any or not, as soon as I am sure there will be no escape, I will be whirling, yelling STOP, constantly re-assessing, and if need be, firing as fast and as accurately as possible until there is no more threat or until I am overcome by them. An angry mob is a deadly proposition. One is unlikely to escape serious if not mortal injury from such an attack. May none of us ever be in such a predicament.

As to retribution: How and why worry about a future attack when your life is being threatened in the present moment? One thing at a time. If you survive a gang attack and have to take down a few threats in the process, at least you are still alive enough to hide out. So, what, am I going to make friends with the miscreants who are threatening me so they'll leave me alone in the future? They may be smart and resourceful, but so am I. Living in fear of criminals is un-American.

[scottaschultz]

Living in fear of criminals is un-American.

While I agree with this 100%, if you shoot one of them, you won't have to worry about living in fear very long.

Yes, of primary concern would be getting out alive, but if you do take out one of them, just be aware there will be a very heavy price to pay. They don't have the same restrictions on what kind of firearms they can buy as do us honest law-abiding citizens. With their money and resources, I assure you they do not buy their guns at Cabelas or from Buds!

Scott

[maestro pistolero]

What's the point? You don't have the luxury to worry about a future attack when your life is in immediate danger. How is there any choice at that moment? Be killed now, or be stalked and killed later. I'll take later, thank you very much.

[zxcvbob]

Originally Posted by Scott

They will not rest until your are dead... period! They have no respect for human life. The would just as soon kill you as give you the time of day. They have been known to shoot people just for wearing the colors of a rival gang on their turf.

So you're saying we should kill all of them? Or what?

[Composer_1777]

Gang members can't suround you if you are expecting a fire fight.

As soon as they pull up in a hostile manner or set their sights on you, take up position and draw.

You might be able to kill 4 or 5, their accuracy and demeanor are poor Or just draw the fire fight out. They most likely only have one magazine in each gun and probably will spray and pray.

You might die, that is life.

[Catfishman]

Noise, close to politics

[seeker_two]

I'm just impressed that we've talked this long about defending oneself from a mob focused on killing you....and no one's even said the "Z" word....

[Mike in VA]

A couple of hand grenades migbht give them something to think about, but might also be detrimental toyour complexion, too . . . . .

[rick73852]

Don't **** off more people at one time that you have rounds. LOL

[onthejon55]

Find something to hide behind and start squeezing off rounds. Either they change their mind or you die.

[ronto]

Not much of a choice here, other than...I only have 6 rounds, so which one of you low-life cowards wants to be first?

[overkill556x45]

For soldiers and security contractors, they are in a war zone and can fire back indiscriminantly if they do not back down. That is war and anyone who engages you is the enemy.

Actually, that's the fastest way to Ft. Leavenworth I can think of. Sucks, but even four years ago the ROE was pretty restrictive. It's worse now, so I hear. But that's another story for another day.

I got caught in a riot (thanks, Newsweek--lying about the quaran being flushed at club Gitmo) in May 2005 in the city of Jalalabad. We shut down the gates, brought our guys inside the wire, closed the steel gates, set up a final defensive line, put every warm body in full kit locked and loaded on the perimeter wall, and let the local police deal with it. It was over by the end of the day, and the fires were out a couple of days later. Once again, thanks Newsweek.

I don't see an angry mob coming to get me in my town of 1100 people (1100 if you count all the way out to township limits). But if I do get attacked by the extras from Mad Max, I keep my zombie war box with a flak vest, OTV with 9 magazines, 25rds of buckshot, and 4 pistol mags within a few feet of my TV chair. I'd bunker up, get the non-fighting family members locked in the basement, and watch the doors from my favorite chair. If I wasn't on my home turf, I'd get in the Ford and put the hammer down. Move it or lose it.

[scottaschultz]

If I wasn't on my home turf, I'd get in the Ford and put the hammer down.

You do have a death wish, don't you!

Scott

[jack404]

Kosovo

A UN (Australian ) patrol of 4 men where abandoned by the french troops who pulled out all of a sudden , leaving them in the wrong place without transport or back up and a WAP radio ( weak as p***)

they where confronted by 1200 rioting folks including women

they about faced and started double timing it back to the safe zone but where cut off

a few rounds slowed the crowd down some so thats how they played it

kept double timing until the mob closed in and they set off some rounds again

16 kilmeters or just over 10 miles they did this for

shot where fired at them from the odd AK but mainly shot guns etc but nothing too accurate,

they KEPT THIER HEADS and so they kept thier backsides intact

in situations like this THINK..

shooting into the road a few meters in front of the crowd ensures plenty of small "bits" hits the crowd which will deter the not so willing , while keeping you moving

its when your stopped moving that situations like this get bad

keep mobile, keep calm, and keep thinking

and keep the other side off balance if you can

cheers

jack