Scope Recommendations

HoosierDave1967 · December 30, 2013, 03:24 PM

I have a POF .308 AR in 20" barrel on its way to my local FFL dealer in Indiana.

I have a 2 part question regarding optics/reticle and a quick mount bipod.

1) I am looking at several different bipods:
LaRue/Harris QD Combo - about $215+
GG&G QD - about $220+
Caldwell - about $70 (cheap)

I have seen several sites offering the Harris and GG&G for under $70. I am assuming these are cheap Chinese knockoffs.

I typically use GanderMountain bipods for my .22LR and .308 rifles, which are entry level platforms themselves, buy my new POF baby deserves only the best.

This may be a silly question, but are the LaRue and GG&G worth the extra cabbage?

2) optics/reticles

I am seeking a solid quality, great tracking scope with a hold over reticle

I like the hold over better due to ease of shooting at range and already have several dial up scopes (Bushmaster, Zeiss) and want to expand with a hold over reticle. So far:

Swarovski
Z3 4-12x50 for about $1,000
Z3 3-10X42 for about $900

Bushnell Elite DOA
3-9x40 for about $330

Steiner Predator
3-12x56 for about $690

Horus
about $600-1,200, but I have read numerous strings that state tracking on Horus scopes is junk.

Any other suggestions? My budget is $1,200 and under, preferably UNDER.

Also, I have read that anything over 3-12x48+ is useless:

Most sub 1,200 yard shooting uses only 10 to 11 x magnification and at 48+ view, unless you spend some serious dough (several thousands of dollars), the light quality gets extremely poor.

So, I am seeking something in the 2/5 - 10/12 x 44/48 range.

thanks for the input.... feel free to write a book if responding. I posted a previous post on AR-10 platforms and really appreciated all the detailed advice. I have viewed many other posts on different matters and enjoy all the educated, knowledgable input.

and feel free to make fun of me for being a greenhorn and novice asking 'Duh Questions'.

SSA · December 31, 2013, 11:55 AM

"anything over 3-12x48+ is useless"
"48+ view"

I don't understand. What is '48+ view?'

HoosierDave1967 · December 31, 2013, 12:13 PM

My apologies for not being clear in my request.

I am seeking a rifle scope with a maximum magnification of 12

AND

a maximum objective lens of 48.

My understanding is that the larger the objective lens number, in this case 48, the more light the scope can take in. So a 48 objective will take in 1/3 more light than a 36 objective lens.

But I have also read that anything above a 44 to 48 objective lens size if worthless unless you obtain a really, really nice scope and I don't have $2,000+ to spend on a scope.

Plus I have read that most 1,200 yard and under shooting in normal light conditions rarely exceeds 10 to 12 times magnification, so buying a scope with 20 or 30 times magnification is pointless unless you are shooting calibers/loads which can reach out WAY past 1,200 yards, as in 2-3,000 yard shots. I have no need for such a powerful scope.

And I have read that unless you obtain a scope with excellent 'tracking', when you get up to 10 to 12 time magnification, a larger objective lens like a 48 will not necessarily bring in more light if the glass quality is poor. In fact, it might result if less clear shots.

So, sorry about yet another lengthy answer, but I am still learning. All my previous shooting has been sub 300 yards and normally involved off the shelf scopes in the $100-200 range. Not bad scopes, but quality was not really an issue since I was targeting at shorter distances and never took the time to learn MOA, drop, wind and other factors.

SSA · December 31, 2013, 12:46 PM

If you want a 3-12X44, then that's what you should get.

A Vortex Viper PST, Weaver Tactical, Leupold VX3, or Bushnell Elite Tactical is plenty good enough to take advantage of a 50mm objective.
A 4-16X50 or a 6-20X50 can be turned down to 12X, if that's how you want to use it.

A 48mm objective will let in more than 75% more light than a 36mm. You have to compare the areas of the lenses.

"unless you obtain a scope with excellent 'tracking', when you get up to 10 to 12 time magnification, a larger objective lens like a 48 will not necessarily bring in more light if the glass quality is poor '
The tracking repeatability of a scope has nothing to do with glass quality or light transmission.

December 30, 2013, 03:24 PM	#1
HoosierDave1967 Junior Member Join Date: December 25, 2013 Posts: 14	Scope Recommendations I have a POF .308 AR in 20" barrel on its way to my local FFL dealer in Indiana. I have a 2 part question regarding optics/reticle and a quick mount bipod. 1) I am looking at several different bipods: LaRue/Harris QD Combo - about $215+ GG&G QD - about $220+ Caldwell - about $70 (cheap) I have seen several sites offering the Harris and GG&G for under $70. I am assuming these are cheap Chinese knockoffs. I typically use GanderMountain bipods for my .22LR and .308 rifles, which are entry level platforms themselves, buy my new POF baby deserves only the best. This may be a silly question, but are the LaRue and GG&G worth the extra cabbage? 2) optics/reticles I am seeking a solid quality, great tracking scope with a hold over reticle I like the hold over better due to ease of shooting at range and already have several dial up scopes (Bushmaster, Zeiss) and want to expand with a hold over reticle. So far: Swarovski Z3 4-12x50 for about $1,000 Z3 3-10X42 for about $900 Bushnell Elite DOA 3-9x40 for about $330 Steiner Predator 3-12x56 for about $690 Horus about $600-1,200, but I have read numerous strings that state tracking on Horus scopes is junk. Any other suggestions? My budget is $1,200 and under, preferably UNDER. Also, I have read that anything over 3-12x48+ is useless: Most sub 1,200 yard shooting uses only 10 to 11 x magnification and at 48+ view, unless you spend some serious dough (several thousands of dollars), the light quality gets extremely poor. So, I am seeking something in the 2/5 - 10/12 x 44/48 range. thanks for the input.... feel free to write a book if responding. I posted a previous post on AR-10 platforms and really appreciated all the detailed advice. I have viewed many other posts on different matters and enjoy all the educated, knowledgable input. and feel free to make fun of me for being a greenhorn and novice asking 'Duh Questions'.

December 31, 2013, 12:13 PM	#3
HoosierDave1967 Junior Member Join Date: December 25, 2013 Posts: 14	Lens Size My apologies for not being clear in my request. I am seeking a rifle scope with a maximum magnification of 12 AND a maximum objective lens of 48. My understanding is that the larger the objective lens number, in this case 48, the more light the scope can take in. So a 48 objective will take in 1/3 more light than a 36 objective lens. But I have also read that anything above a 44 to 48 objective lens size if worthless unless you obtain a really, really nice scope and I don't have $2,000+ to spend on a scope. Plus I have read that most 1,200 yard and under shooting in normal light conditions rarely exceeds 10 to 12 times magnification, so buying a scope with 20 or 30 times magnification is pointless unless you are shooting calibers/loads which can reach out WAY past 1,200 yards, as in 2-3,000 yard shots. I have no need for such a powerful scope. And I have read that unless you obtain a scope with excellent 'tracking', when you get up to 10 to 12 time magnification, a larger objective lens like a 48 will not necessarily bring in more light if the glass quality is poor. In fact, it might result if less clear shots. So, sorry about yet another lengthy answer, but I am still learning. All my previous shooting has been sub 300 yards and normally involved off the shelf scopes in the $100-200 range. Not bad scopes, but quality was not really an issue since I was targeting at shorter distances and never took the time to learn MOA, drop, wind and other factors.

December 31, 2013, 11:55 AM	#2
SSA Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Posts: 641	"anything over 3-12x48+ is useless" "48+ view" I don't understand. What is '48+ view?'

December 31, 2013, 12:46 PM	#4
SSA Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Posts: 641	If you want a 3-12X44, then that's what you should get. A Vortex Viper PST, Weaver Tactical, Leupold VX3, or Bushnell Elite Tactical is plenty good enough to take advantage of a 50mm objective. A 4-16X50 or a 6-20X50 can be turned down to 12X, if that's how you want to use it. A 48mm objective will let in more than 75% more light than a 36mm. You have to compare the areas of the lenses. "unless you obtain a scope with excellent 'tracking', when you get up to 10 to 12 time magnification, a larger objective lens like a 48 will not necessarily bring in more light if the glass quality is poor ' The tracking repeatability of a scope has nothing to do with glass quality or light transmission.