Home Defense Application

[tacstar]

I was wondering why 12 gauge shotguns are favored for home defense instead of semi-automatic pistols?

Shoutguns are rather large & are not as easy to store as a pistol. My administration of justice teacher who was a 25 year LAPD veteran told me that many homeowners have been killed with their own firearms after missing an intruder or simply grazing them.

He said operating a firearm in a close quarter combat situation is different from a Saturday afternoon @ the range. Shotguns clear a wide pattern & it is nearly impossible to miss the intended target.

Taking all that into account I still feel a .40 S&W or .45 ACP semi automatic pistol is a viable alternative due to their stopping power. Some favor a 9mm due to the fact that it's recoil is signifanctly less than the 40S&W & 45ACP making it possible to discharge multiple rounds in a shorter period of time.

[esldude]

You might look elsewhere for shotgun info. Your instructor regardless of his experience just gave you some pitiful old wives tales and misinformation. Which you can easily show to yourself to be wrong.

How wide is a shotgun pattern at say 25 feet(surely you won't likely use it indoors at greater range)? The answer is pretty darn small. Basically you need to aim it nearly as well as a rifle.

He is correct that many homeowners will miss or graze an intruder. But that is with pistols or shotguns.

Shotguns are large, unwieldy and loud compared to handguns. But a solid hit with a shotgun is far more likely to cease aggression more quickly on the intruder's part.

That said misses don't count. And it is far from a clear answer which is better for home defense. Depends on particular circumstances and the capability of the person.

Myself, I sort of split the difference using a pistol caliber carbine. Some consider this the worst of both worlds. I like it for the long gun makes hits far easier (yes you can miss easily with a pistol even indoors), quicker and quieter than the other alternatives. If not for the noise and over penetration probabilities I would use a .308 myself.

[sjstill]

12 gauge + 1oz slug = closest thing to a magic bullet.

Did your instructor ride a desk for 25 years? Just because he's an ex-cop, doesn't automatically confer expert status re: home defense. Not a knock against ex-cops, but this guy is passing on some bum info, IMO.

What Blackwater OPS said, too - you MUST aim a shotgun, no matter what ammo you are using. Point & shoot only works in Hollyweird.

[Blackwater OPS]

A well aimed shotgun is more powerfull than a SMG for home defense. I have posted on this at length before, as have others, please use the search.

[CmGtSm]

I'll echo what the others have said - in real life (within 25 feet or so) shotguns actually have a rather 'narrow' impact range, although from the movies you'd gather that every shotgun is a
"scatter gun". Not true.

Also, if you decide to go with a HD shotgun (for human type critters) stick to 00 or 000 buck - birdshot is for birds.

[Double Naught Spy]

My Rem 870 with an 18" barrel has approximately 1" of spread for every 5 feet of travel with Federal Tactical 00 Buck. At 15 yards, the longest distance in my home, the spread is only 9". At that size, it is very EASY to miss a target that is in motion.

[tinman]

The shotgun has a serious psycological effect when you pump the action. I have both scattergun and handgun at bedside. The shotgun has a short barrel and pistol grip so I can turn around in a hallway without having to lift the barrel. While I live in the country, I still have neighbors, and don't want to send any lead that far. (they wouldn't like it). The handgun (.45acp) serves as backup.

[HappyGunner]

The Shotgun in combat by Tony Lesce Desert Publications ISBN 0-87947-430-0 This book has many answers to the questions of why the Shotgun is the firearm of choice for close combat. IMHO A handgun is the last gun a person should have to use if they have a shotgun.

[Blackwater OPS]

I just one one of the best "Cops" episodes I have ever seen. Starts with a 911 call where a young woman says there is a man is her backyard, its about 2 am. She says her daughter is there with her. Next thing you hear is her screaming that "they are breaking in" then some noises and shouts followed by good bit of gun fire. Locol cops show up at about 2:08 to find two BGs, one VERY dead with a tec-9 looking pistol, the other disabled with a leg wound and two scared women. Turns out the next door neighbor who knew them heard the screaming, reponded with his shotgun and ended the problem then took off. Nice use of the shotgun vs. BGs.

[datchew]

All good points made above.
Best thing would be to get a shotty, go out to the range, and experiment and use your imagination for how you could use it for home defense.

One note:

I hear people saying all the time about how the sound or racking a round into the chamber of a shotgun scares away bad guys.

Yes, it's a distinct sound and is scary.

If you were a bad guy breaking in with a gun and heard that sound, tell me, where would you shoot first?

Don't cycle your shotgun to scare anyone. That should only be done if you don't have one in the chamber. If it comes to that type of situation, and you already have one chambered, don't betray your position.... just shoot first.

[TX_RGR]

Please don't buy into anything that mates "stopping power" with "handgun" in the same sentence.

[Double Naught Spy]

And while racking a shotgun does make a distinctive sound we all think everyone would recognize in the middle of the night, the assumption is flawed. The reason it is flawed is that it assumes the bad guy(s) in your home have adequate hearing to properly hear the sound, are familiar with the sound, and are not under the influence of any sorts of drugs that might distort their abilities to understand reality.

[sjstill]

How true, Double Naught! If all it took was "The Sound". we could just have tape recordings and save bunches of $$ on ammo and training.

[Blackwater OPS]

If the BG is crazy enough to break into someones house, possibly ignoring alarms and screaming occupants, I doubt the sound of a round being chambered is going to make him run screaming in terror. It might make him try to shoot/kill you though.

[bclark1]

i keep pistols close because i can do so without making it obvious. i'd go with shotguns if i could for defense. pistols are more practical, but no, the "stopping power," however you quantify it (energy, weight, size of damaged tissue, momentum), doesn't even compare to the lightest shotgun load. if you miss with a shotgun at close range, you don't train enough, and would've missed worse with a pistol. assuming the shot doesn't spread _at all_ you still have a 12ga size mass moving versus somewhere between 8 and 12mm. you've also got that whole long barrel to see where you're pointing versus maybe a sight radius between 4-6 inches on a pistol. an additional benefit of using buckshot is that it's widely believed that multiple injuries sustained at once will induce shock and incapacitate more effectively than one or even a few in quick succession. one load of buckshot to COM is about as trusty as anything.

[Pezo]

I prrefer revolver's over semi auto's for home defense. I beleive that a person should empty the whole gun on the intruder to ensure intruder's demise. shotgun's are a bit unwieldly but they tend to "demise" the attacker quicker and more reliably than handguns.

[Pezo]

The shotgun has a serious psycological effect when you pump the action

so does the sound of a .357 going off.

[RioShooter]

tacstar wrote:

Taking all that into account I still feel a .40 S&W or .45 ACP semi automatic pistol is a viable alternative due to their stopping power.

Consider this: one hit to COM with buckshot is equivalent to 9 to 15 hits with handgun bullets.

Do you want to pull the trigger once or ..........?

NOTHING beats the stopping power of buckshot at close range.

My Mossberg 500 with 18.5" barrel is next to my bed every night.

[OneInTheChamber]

Because 00buck is like getting shot by a bunch of small caliber handguns at the same time. Just look at the size of the shells, big bullet beats small bullet. Lots of bullets beat one bullet.

Don't bring a handgun to a long gun fight. And there is no such thing as cheating in a shooting. Bring as much advantage as you can.

Chase

[Blackwater OPS]

It's true that a person witha pistol is very poorly armed in a long gun fight. Same as a person armed witha knife in a pistol fight, or with fists in a knife fight. They may still be able to defend themselves depending on the situation but they are at a great disadvantage from the begining.

[XavierBreath]

At 20 feet, my cylinder bore 12 gauges make a 3 inch diameter hole with 00 Buck. My 1911 makes a half inch hole in .45ACP at the same distance.

My Winchester Defender holds 7 round in the magazine, six on the reciever. My other HD shottys carry five in the magazine, six on the reciever. My 1911 holds seven in magazine, one in the chamber.

I carry a 1911 because I can conceal it. I choose a shotgun when I don't have to conceal it.

I recall the MarDet on my ship carrying a M16 and a 12 gauge while on guard duty. When you want to stop aggression quick, blow a three inch hole COM. Even the USMC agrees.