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Old February 11, 2014, 08:19 PM   #1
Ashbane
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45 ACP case trimming gone wild

From what I've read I think most people don't trim their pistol brass and I didn't either for a while. I've been reloading a few months now and typically collect brass by buying a fresh box of federals each trip to the range and adding that brass to my collection. I know the max case length is .898" and as I clean my cases each week I check their lengths after depriming them through the resizer die.

Now a few weeks ago I saw a Lee case trimmer #90162 and the holder and figured it might save me the time rather than checking each case for max length, I could just run a case on my drill mounted in a vise.

So I ran a bunch through it and thought it worked out ok. I did this week after week of buying and collecting more and more brass. Now all of my brass has been run through this and I'm worried they're too short. I assumed this tool would give me the ideal case length but it's trimmed them all to between .875-.885 depending how often I've reloaded them. When I plop them into my barrel they fall more along the 1st example in the picture I've seen here demonstrating proper headspace for pistol cases, which sits on the extractor.

I've not had any problems shooting the brass, everything goes bang. But I can't quite get a very ideal group at 20', which I thought I would have by now. I'm still trying different powders and bullets, seems like once I work up a decent load I run out of something and gotta work up a new load using whatever bullets or powder I can find in stock.

Or is the brass my biggest problem I've created for myself now?
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Old February 11, 2014, 08:26 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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I've never heard of anyone trimming 45acp (or basically any other semi-auto) brass.

Stop doing that.

Problem solved.

BTW, you don't have to measure it either. Handgun brass tends to get SHORTER with use, rather than longer.

To the use of your trimmed brass, 0.885 is only 0.003 shorter than trim length. The other, well, the brass length really doesn't effect anything except "neck" tension, bullet setback. I doubt a 0.013 short matters but make a round and see if you can push the bullet back too easily.
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Old February 11, 2014, 08:42 PM   #3
BillM
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Trim 45 ACP? Nope. Shoot it until it splits, then toss
it. Unless it is AMERC brass---then toss it BEFORE you try
to reload it.
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Old February 11, 2014, 08:58 PM   #4
Ashbane
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Sorry at first I figured this thing would make them the ideal size but noticed they were looking like the first part of that pictured with the "do not do" slash through it and figured I'd made an issue where there wasn't one. I also try to get a uniform taper crimp on them and figured a nice uniform case length would help me keep a nice uniform crimp.

I understand they only need a slight crimp, just enough to take out the bell. I check the mouth after a crimp and consistently get about .470. To keep this up is why I started worrying about case length so much, I figured this is probably why I can't seem to nail down a consistent load.
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Old February 11, 2014, 09:05 PM   #5
mightyoakwildlife
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Headspacing the .45 ACP

The .45 ACP actually headspaces on the case mouth, and should only be loaded with a taper-crimp die. Fortunately, the feeding system is very forgiving, whereas the extractor also holds the cartridge, thereby performing a kinda/sorta assist to the headspacing if your case length is too short.

This is true enough that your cases, about 13 thousandths short, will still function safely and effectively. Accuracy is also affected minimally, so long as you sort them by case length, for the sake of round to round consistency.

If you loaded a batch of these shorties already, no worries. Just be mindful that you will see a potential rise in chamber pressure. With the docile .45 you may not even notice. If you are one of the few who try making an ACP Super Whomper load, then there could be a noteworthy concern. Also, mind the cannelure, or use decent neck tension on your taper crimp, as you don't want the bullet to 'slip' when being cycled from the magazine into the chamber. This too will cause unexpected variation in pressure from shot to shot, and could create a larger problem than your minimally-shortened brass.

Most likely not an issue, but these are points to be aware of. Don't waste your time trimming your handgun brass unless it's one of the bottleneck designs, like the .357 Sig. The straight-walled cases do tend to "shrink", but they'll be okay.
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Old February 11, 2014, 09:08 PM   #6
mightyoakwildlife
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Started writing my reply to this thread, got called away. Sorry my above post is redundant as to what has already been said.
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Old February 11, 2014, 09:18 PM   #7
Rico567
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What has been said. The .45 ACP in particular is such a low-pressure round compared to the likes of 9mm or .40 S&W that the cases should last a very long time, and never need trimming. My first batch of a thousand .45 ACP cases were Winchesters, fired repeatedly until the "W-W" logo on the headstamp was practically unreadable from having been banged into the chamber so much.
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Old February 11, 2014, 11:08 PM   #8
j357
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IMO neither the brass nor powder is giving you an issue.

Your brass is fine, just stop trimming it. As Brian indicated, it gets shorter with use. You should be getting around 1400 rounds of 45 from a pound of powder (7000g/5g avg) so that's not likely the issue unless you are shooting that much in month.

What are your expectation on groups from your weapon of choice, given it's pedigree and condition? 7 rounds in single ragged hole at 20' might be overly optimistic, but a 3" circle might be possible.

How does your weapon group with factory rounds as compared to your reloads? How do you rate your own shooting ability overall? Do your reloads and your tailoring of them allow faster recovery and target acquisition for follow ups and give you more practice time?

I am not trying to call you out and there is no need to respond to these questions in the forum literally. I'm just trying to get you to think about level setting your expectations. Keep good notes on your load developments and keep an eye out for those components that work well.
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Old February 12, 2014, 12:23 AM   #9
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To follow what j357 is saying. Why do you think your loads are inconsistent? Recoil, accuracy, what is your criteria? You are way over thinking this. Reloading for pistols is about as easy as it gets. Not saying you can be sloppy, just don't get carried away.
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Old February 12, 2014, 01:19 AM   #10
Brotherbadger
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Pretty much what everybody else has said. Just stop trimming the brass and you should be fine.
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Old February 12, 2014, 01:26 AM   #11
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20 FEET? The closest I shoot is 50 feet. That's indoors. I prefer to shoot 25 YARDS, then you begin to see what load development is doing. Then you see what little load changes do to your groups. Also, unless you're shooting from a rest, like sandbags, you can't tell anything about groups. Sorry, standing off hand is just not accurate enough to tell if it's the load, gun or bad weather.

As said, semi-auto brass shortens with age. You should not ever try to trim it, waste of time.
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