Remington takes the money from NY/Pentagon deal - Page 4

manta49 · April 12, 2013, 05:22 PM

Quote:

If Cerberus owns Remington then all the more reason to see that they get none of my money. There are many more choices out there that makes similar products. Brand loyalty means less now than ever

Unfortunately they don't care they would rather have large government contracts and don't care if you buy from them or not.

Shep · April 12, 2013, 05:27 PM

http://gunssavelives.net/blog/reming...ovt-contract/#

I don't know about the rest of you, but I've spent the last dollar I will ever spend on any Freedom Group products. Too bad, I've been thinking about another Marlin. Not now.

I've boycotted GM since '86 for sucking on the tax incentives udder. I guess I can add these guys, too.

To be clear, my complaint is not that they haven't relocated in protest to NYS draconian gun law or that they (Remington) accepted a lucrative Army contract.
My concern is that they have not done or said anything in opposition to the "gun grab" or in support of 2A.

It would be very interesting to learn what portion of their total sales revenues are derived from the manufacture and sale of arms to private citizens; non-gov't entities. If their calculus is such that they think they can live on gov't contract sales alone, then private customers simply aren't important (enough) for them to risk gov't censure.

lcpiper · April 12, 2013, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Gaerek
Remington does what Remington does because they have to. That's fine. But if I can buy my new bolt gun from a company that is actively supporting and fighting for my rights, I'll buy from them instead.

Gaerek, I can see where I misunderstood you and I apologize for it.

I am one of those guys that doesn't like injustices and I don't feel that Remington has done anything wrong. But as you posted above, they don't seem to have done anything particularly right either and others are.

It's not that I am trying to tell people what they should or shouldn't do. I just don't want them to blame the innocent. Rewarding those who are there helping us the most, now that is a different matter entirely

dakota.potts · April 12, 2013, 05:57 PM

OK, counter point time.

Remington has 1,200 workers. They are one of the largest suppliers of guns and ammunition in the US.

What's happening to us right now? Ammo and gun shortage anybody?

So, Remington refuses the contract, uproots, re tools, and moves a 1200 man operation to another state. They spend millions, are out for months, and when they come back other companies have filled the gaps and with all the extra workers and shifts they can't make enough money to cover the costs of an $80 million contract, moving, and being out of work for at least a month while paying 1,200 people. They can no longer stay in business so goodbye Remington guns and ammo. And now there's less ammo on the market which brings a higher cost.

Beentown71 · April 12, 2013, 06:29 PM

I am done with them. I let them know about it through multiple venues and so should you.

TEL: 1-800-243-9700

[email protected]

https://www.facebook.com/remingtonarmscompany

ATW525 · April 13, 2013, 09:05 AM

Seriously? Our Second Amendment rights are under assault and people have nothing better to do than go after a firearms company who has probably contributed far more to defending those rights than every poster in this thread combined? Talk about a win for the anti-gun crowd. Not only do they get more restrictive gun laws, but they force firearms manufacturers to either spend millions moving or face the wrath of the supposedly "pro gun" community.

larryh1108 · April 13, 2013, 09:12 AM

Yes, we are fighting for these rights that are being taken from us. We are fighting for the second amendment. Yes, we are choosing to not do business who those who take our cash but will not stand up for these rights. It appears that the money is more important than the rights to own the products they make and sell. Yes, maybe Remington has done more for us than anybody here but in the time of urgency, like we are in now, they choose to not engage and/or turn their backs on us for the sake of profits over rights.

The government has made it clear that they will take our rights and guns. Look no further than the NATO treaty Obama and Hillary are trying to shove down our throats. If the government succeeds, then Remington and other companies like them won't need to worry about moving because there will be no market for them to sell to. They'll shut down or live off the government contracts that will be all that is left. Yeah, this is serious stuff.

ATW525 · April 13, 2013, 09:27 AM

The only people I see turning there backs on gun rights, are the people in this thread who are so quick to throw a firearms manufacturer under the bus instead of directing their anger where it belongs: against the people who wrote the laws.

larryh1108 · April 13, 2013, 10:02 AM

Quote:

directing their anger where it belongs: against the people who wrote the laws.

...by doing what?

We've written letters, sent emails, called, marched, protested.
We've been very vocal and show a strong, united front.
We have the NRA and other groups spending millions to counteract their millions.
They have no interest in what we want.
They only care about what they want.

So, we can sit back and take it like a man or we can fight back.
We can fight back in the elections and by choosing who we wish to support with our money and our passions. Those who don't wish to support us in our rights or have no desire to even take a public stand are now a part of the problem, not part of the solution.

I'll vote with my vote and my wallet.
You can support it any way you want.
Until now, it's a free country.
However, tell me how you think we'll successfully fight this war.
Send another email? Really?

FoghornLeghorn · April 13, 2013, 10:19 AM

Quote:

go after a firearms company

It's a nonissue w/Remington. They'll do fine in spite of the few protests on this thread. Or they'll fail regardless the protests on this thread.

The $80 mil contract will keep at least that division in business.

ATW525 · April 13, 2013, 11:44 AM

Quote:

It's a nonissue w/Remington. They'll do fine in spite of the few protests on this thread. Or they'll fail regardless the protests on this thread.

The $80 mil contract will keep at least that division in business.

You're right, of course. I mean Ruger and Smith & Wesson actually did things to hurt our gun rights and they're still around. All that Remington did was meet with legislators opposed to the SAFE act and assure them that it wasn't going to abandon them or it's workers in the foreseeable future.

For those curious, these are the horrible gun grabbers that Remington met with and supposedly "sold out" to:

James L. Seward (R) NRA Rated A+
Hugh T. Farley (R) NRA Rated A
Joseph A. Griffo (R) NRA Rated A
Anthony J. Brindisi (D) NRA Rated A-
Claudia Tenney (R) NRA Rated A+
Marc W. Butler (R) NRA Rated A

Every single one voted against the SAFE act.

larryh1108 · April 13, 2013, 11:57 AM

I'm sorry, did I miss where they issued a press release about how they support the 2A inspite of how the state voted?

Wait, their owner is anti 2A.

My bad.

Ownership can sell it to a pro 2A company who will give a crap about us. Until then I hope we can help put them in the red. If we become an anchor around their necks then they will sell. You know, they hate bad press and red ink. It's all about their image, you know.

ATW525 · April 13, 2013, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Until then I hope we can help put them in the red.

Just don't kid yourself. These are the people that will suffer if you "put them in the red".

larryh1108 · April 13, 2013, 01:14 PM

I agree. People in NYS would lose their jobs. That would suck for those families. However, on the plus side, people in another state would get jobs which would help them and their families.

Keep in mind, as they proudly hold their union sign, that they (majority), more than likely, voted for the very politicians who passed these laws. Unions favor the Democratic ticket and they urge their members to vote for their choices. (I am ex-union). So they had a choice in the people who are passing laws that can/will hurt their product. Would I feel sorry for them? Sure. I'd also be happy for the people who get the new jobs and who vote along the lines of pro 2A.

This has become a real battle. If you don't believe it, talk to people in NY, CO, CT, IL, etc. Just because it doesn't affect you (generic you) doesn't mean it is not real and it is just another annoyance that will go away with time. This time it won't go away until they sign the NATO treaty and make all of our small arms illegal. Pipe dream? No, reality. This is the battle we've all hoped would never happen and felt secure in the rights that 2A gave us. It is here and it is now and if you feel otherwise then you need to see the state of the union for what it is, not what you hope it is.

Texshooter · April 13, 2013, 01:59 PM

Remington - they would not have to move everything right now. It could be done over time so as to minimize any "gov't contract loss". If they don't think the civie market is important enough to stand by us - so be it. If it takes a Gov't contract for them to stay in business, then there is a very, very good chance they have nothing I want. (Remember how Colt took us for granted for so long?)

And Ruger HAS moved most of their OPs, to my understanding, to a Free State - Arizona.

Glenn E. Meyer · April 13, 2013, 02:51 PM

Kahr has made significan donations to the RKBA cause, if reports are to be believed. On Michael Bane's pages.

It is legit, I think to stay, IF you make a concerted effort to support the RKBA with money and in public.

Tell Cuomo and Bloomberg that they are full of it.

FoghornLeghorn · April 13, 2013, 05:22 PM

Again, for the sake of clarification. Remington Firearms makes no policy decisions. They cannot issue statements. They cannot choose to move.

Remington is a part of a busiiness entity known as the Freedom Group. The Freedom Group is the following:

Advanced Armament Corporation
Barnes Bullets
Bushmaster Firearms International
Dakota Arms
DPMS Panther Arms
H & R Firearms
Marlin
Mountain Khakis
Para USA
Parker Gunmakers
Remington Arms
Remington Military
Remington LE
Remington PMPD
TAPCO

Freedom Group is owned by a multinational investment corporation and makes all decisions concerning the above companies.

If you want to hurt Remington by boycotting Remington, then you must boycott all the companies above, as that's the only way to hurt the owners.

However, the owner, Cerberus, has begun divesting itself of Freedom Group and is returning the money to investors.

So by the time the boycott was felt by anyone, the people responsible for Remington staying in NY would no longer be in the picture.

Fishing_Cabin · April 13, 2013, 06:32 PM

While I do hope that at some point Remington moves its firearm manufacturing to another, more friendly state, at this time I dont have much of a problem with Remington taking the contract. They already have an ammo plant in Arkansas, and an office in North Carolina, seperate from the Ilion plant, so I think they are spreading out their options since before it was popular.

I dont think a boycott will do any good either, afterall as was already mentioned, S&W and Ruger are still here after trying to side with those anti-gun.

I would much prefer Remington keep moving forward and hopefully pop-up and move more of its production to gun friendly states in the future. For right now though, I dont want some silly paper statement thats not worth the ink on the paper, or some half-hearted attempt to pick a side. To me its better to be neutral until you can actually DO something. I dont feel Remington is at a point yet to actually do something, yet.

ATW525 · April 13, 2013, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Keep in mind, as they proudly hold their union sign, that they (majority), more than likely, voted for the very politicians who passed these laws.

Herkimer County, NY where Remington is located is part of two NYS Senate Districts and three NYS Assembly Districts. Every single legislator that the people of Herkimer County voted to represent them in the state government is highly rated by the NRA and voted against the SAFE act.

Tucker 1371 · April 13, 2013, 07:11 PM

Quote:

FoghornLeghorn: Freedom Group is owned by a multinational investment corporation and makes all decisions concerning the above companies.

If you want to hurt Remington by boycotting Remington, then you must boycott all the companies above, as that's the only way to hurt the owners.

However, the owner, Cerberus, has begun divesting itself of Freedom Group and is returning the money to investors.

So by the time the boycott was felt by anyone, the people responsible for Remington staying in NY would no longer be in the picture.

Excellent point, I suppose in light of that I should reverse my original statement in this thread, Remington will stay in my good graces, althought I really haven't planned on buying a Remington product ever I won't intentionally go out of my my way not to buy anything Remington.

thallub · April 13, 2013, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Herkimer County, NY where Remington is located is part of two NYS Senate Districts and three NYS Assembly Districts. Every single legislator that the people of Herkimer County voted to represent them in the state government is highly rated by the NRA and voted against the SAFE act.

Thanks for the excellent information.

Beentown71 · April 13, 2013, 10:15 PM

Everyone is mentioning what happened with S&W and Ruger...they have done an 180 since. Hopefully Remington will also.

**Tom Servo** · April 13, 2013, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Our Second Amendment rights are under assault and people have nothing better to do than go after a firearms company who has probably contributed far more to defending those rights than every poster in this thread combined?

Yep, because the sad truth is that infighting seems to be the one thing the gun culture can agree on.

Quote:

Herkimer County, NY where Remington is located is part of two NYS Senate Districts and three NYS Assembly Districts. Every single legislator that the people of Herkimer County voted to represent them in the state government is highly rated by the NRA and voted against the SAFE act.

Thanks for the info. There's something to be said for staying and fighting. Sure, they can just up and move, but which approach will have a greater impact?

We all applauded (and rightfully so) when Magpul pulled out of Colorado, but it appears that the economic impact had no influence on policymakers.

larryh1108 · April 14, 2013, 04:44 AM

Quote:

There's something to be said for staying and fighting. Sure, they can just up and move, but which approach will have a greater impact?

I believe that reasons for a boycott are not being understood. An organized boycott is to show that we are serious about the actions taking place. Yes, it is punitive but it's to show future law makers that there will be repurcussions if they vote for restrictive laws. Staying and fighting have not helped the states who have voted up until now. An organized boycott is for the states who will vote next week or next month.

Quote:

We all applauded (and rightfully so) when Magpul pulled out of Colorado, but it appears that the economic impact had no influence on policymakers.

We don't know this yet. It's still too new. Each week more and more states will review and possibly vote on similar laws. In CT, the governor stated that he will not be held hostage by gunmakers who threaten to leave. His statement showed he didn't care or believe they would move.

Fast forward to State X. They only have a few gun related makers but they employ a nice amount of people. A vote is coming and it seems that it will be a close vote. Maker A and C state they will leave if they vote against the gun owners. The lawmakers have seen the boycotts and/or businesses moving out of other states who already passed the laws. This state can't afford to lose them and votes against the bill.

A boycott is supposed to say we won't accept this when doing it "the right way" didn't or doesn't work. "Get out there. Write your lawmakers. Send emails. Flood their phone lines. Participate in the marches. Show up at city hall on vote day" we were told. We did. They thumbed their noses at us. They didn't care. They do care about money for the state.

The federal vote will probably fail this time around. Not enough support. The country is safe? They'll move back to the states. All of the blue states will fall, one at a time, unless we fight back with more than words. It seems that the states are split 25/25. So, half the country will go with Obama's wishes. Half our guys will get jobbed. So, don't try to stop them. Send your emails, make your calls, write your letters. They don't care. They've said that already.

link for state voting results:

http://www.politico.com/2012-electio...resident/2012/

Me, I'll boycott. We got screwed already. I'm not going to allow them to do this in other states if I can help it. Others can write their emails, I'm going to let them know with my wallet. If enough people get enraged at what is going on maybe we will make a difference. So many people here feel it won't happen to them. They are safe. It's not their problem because they live in the "right" state. They are coming for your guns too but it will just take a little more time. Yes, it can happen to you.

LockedBreech · April 14, 2013, 05:55 AM

I had been weighing options for my first hunting rifle, and it was coming down to Remington 700 versus Ruger M77. I can get the Ruger in stainless for the price of the 700 in blue.

There may be more aftermarket stuff for the 700, but I'll go with the M77. Ruger went to the mat for us this time. That should be rewarded. Remington didn't. That shouldn't.

I'll keep my 870, but from here on I'll go with competing brands.

April 12, 2013, 05:27 PM	#77
Shep Member Join Date: April 19, 2009 Location: NW North Dakota Posts: 57	http://gunssavelives.net/blog/reming...ovt-contract/# I don't know about the rest of you, but I've spent the last dollar I will ever spend on any Freedom Group products. Too bad, I've been thinking about another Marlin. Not now. I've boycotted GM since '86 for sucking on the tax incentives udder. I guess I can add these guys, too. To be clear, my complaint is not that they haven't relocated in protest to NYS draconian gun law or that they (Remington) accepted a lucrative Army contract. My concern is that they have not done or said anything in opposition to the "gun grab" or in support of 2A. It would be very interesting to learn what portion of their total sales revenues are derived from the manufacture and sale of arms to private citizens; non-gov't entities. If their calculus is such that they think they can live on gov't contract sales alone, then private customers simply aren't important (enough) for them to risk gov't censure. Last edited by Shep; April 13, 2013 at 10:02 AM.

April 12, 2013, 06:29 PM	#80
Beentown71 Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,560	I am done with them. I let them know about it through multiple venues and so should you. TEL: 1-800-243-9700 [email protected] https://www.facebook.com/remingtonarmscompany __________________ Μολὼν λάβε Time for the Mall Ninja list: Beretta 92fs, Springer XD9, High Standard Model HB, RRA bull bbl...aw heck with it time to go plink

April 13, 2013, 09:12 AM	#82
larryh1108 Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2008 Location: NC Posts: 813	Yes, we are fighting for these rights that are being taken from us. We are fighting for the second amendment. Yes, we are choosing to not do business who those who take our cash but will not stand up for these rights. It appears that the money is more important than the rights to own the products they make and sell. Yes, maybe Remington has done more for us than anybody here but in the time of urgency, like we are in now, they choose to not engage and/or turn their backs on us for the sake of profits over rights. The government has made it clear that they will take our rights and guns. Look no further than the NATO treaty Obama and Hillary are trying to shove down our throats. If the government succeeds, then Remington and other companies like them won't need to worry about moving because there will be no market for them to sell to. They'll shut down or live off the government contracts that will be all that is left. Yeah, this is serious stuff. __________________ Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

April 13, 2013, 11:57 AM	#87
larryh1108 Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2008 Location: NC Posts: 813	I'm sorry, did I miss where they issued a press release about how they support the 2A inspite of how the state voted? Wait, their owner is anti 2A. My bad. Ownership can sell it to a pro 2A company who will give a crap about us. Until then I hope we can help put them in the red. If we become an anchor around their necks then they will sell. You know, they hate bad press and red ink. It's all about their image, you know. __________________ Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

April 13, 2013, 01:14 PM	#89
larryh1108 Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2008 Location: NC Posts: 813	I agree. People in NYS would lose their jobs. That would suck for those families. However, on the plus side, people in another state would get jobs which would help them and their families. Keep in mind, as they proudly hold their union sign, that they (majority), more than likely, voted for the very politicians who passed these laws. Unions favor the Democratic ticket and they urge their members to vote for their choices. (I am ex-union). So they had a choice in the people who are passing laws that can/will hurt their product. Would I feel sorry for them? Sure. I'd also be happy for the people who get the new jobs and who vote along the lines of pro 2A. This has become a real battle. If you don't believe it, talk to people in NY, CO, CT, IL, etc. Just because it doesn't affect you (generic you) doesn't mean it is not real and it is just another annoyance that will go away with time. This time it won't go away until they sign the NATO treaty and make all of our small arms illegal. Pipe dream? No, reality. This is the battle we've all hoped would never happen and felt secure in the rights that 2A gave us. It is here and it is now and if you feel otherwise then you need to see the state of the union for what it is, not what you hope it is. __________________ Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

April 12, 2013, 05:57 PM	#79
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	OK, counter point time. Remington has 1,200 workers. They are one of the largest suppliers of guns and ammunition in the US. What's happening to us right now? Ammo and gun shortage anybody? So, Remington refuses the contract, uproots, re tools, and moves a 1200 man operation to another state. They spend millions, are out for months, and when they come back other companies have filled the gaps and with all the extra workers and shifts they can't make enough money to cover the costs of an $80 million contract, moving, and being out of work for at least a month while paying 1,200 people. They can no longer stay in business so goodbye Remington guns and ammo. And now there's less ammo on the market which brings a higher cost.

April 13, 2013, 09:05 AM	#81
ATW525 Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2005 Location: Concord, NH Posts: 2,723	Seriously? Our Second Amendment rights are under assault and people have nothing better to do than go after a firearms company who has probably contributed far more to defending those rights than every poster in this thread combined? Talk about a win for the anti-gun crowd. Not only do they get more restrictive gun laws, but they force firearms manufacturers to either spend millions moving or face the wrath of the supposedly "pro gun" community.

April 13, 2013, 09:27 AM	#83
ATW525 Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2005 Location: Concord, NH Posts: 2,723	The only people I see turning there backs on gun rights, are the people in this thread who are so quick to throw a firearms manufacturer under the bus instead of directing their anger where it belongs: against the people who wrote the laws.

April 13, 2013, 01:59 PM	#90
Texshooter Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2006 Posts: 261	Remington - they would not have to move everything right now. It could be done over time so as to minimize any "gov't contract loss". If they don't think the civie market is important enough to stand by us - so be it. If it takes a Gov't contract for them to stay in business, then there is a very, very good chance they have nothing I want. (Remember how Colt took us for granted for so long?) And Ruger HAS moved most of their OPs, to my understanding, to a Free State - Arizona.

April 13, 2013, 02:51 PM	#91
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Kahr has made significan donations to the RKBA cause, if reports are to be believed. On Michael Bane's pages. It is legit, I think to stay, IF you make a concerted effort to support the RKBA with money and in public. Tell Cuomo and Bloomberg that they are full of it. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

April 13, 2013, 05:22 PM	#92
FoghornLeghorn Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2011 Posts: 961	Again, for the sake of clarification. Remington Firearms makes no policy decisions. They cannot issue statements. They cannot choose to move. Remington is a part of a busiiness entity known as the Freedom Group. The Freedom Group is the following: Advanced Armament Corporation Barnes Bullets Bushmaster Firearms International Dakota Arms DPMS Panther Arms H & R Firearms Marlin Mountain Khakis Para USA Parker Gunmakers Remington Arms Remington Military Remington LE Remington PMPD TAPCO Freedom Group is owned by a multinational investment corporation and makes all decisions concerning the above companies. If you want to hurt Remington by boycotting Remington, then you must boycott all the companies above, as that's the only way to hurt the owners. However, the owner, Cerberus, has begun divesting itself of Freedom Group and is returning the money to investors. So by the time the boycott was felt by anyone, the people responsible for Remington staying in NY would no longer be in the picture.

April 13, 2013, 06:32 PM	#93
Fishing_Cabin Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2010 Posts: 720	While I do hope that at some point Remington moves its firearm manufacturing to another, more friendly state, at this time I dont have much of a problem with Remington taking the contract. They already have an ammo plant in Arkansas, and an office in North Carolina, seperate from the Ilion plant, so I think they are spreading out their options since before it was popular. I dont think a boycott will do any good either, afterall as was already mentioned, S&W and Ruger are still here after trying to side with those anti-gun. I would much prefer Remington keep moving forward and hopefully pop-up and move more of its production to gun friendly states in the future. For right now though, I dont want some silly paper statement thats not worth the ink on the paper, or some half-hearted attempt to pick a side. To me its better to be neutral until you can actually DO something. I dont feel Remington is at a point yet to actually do something, yet. Last edited by Fishing_Cabin; April 13, 2013 at 06:38 PM.

April 13, 2013, 10:15 PM	#97
Beentown71 Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,560	Re: Remington takes the money from NY/Pentagon deal Everyone is mentioning what happened with S&W and Ruger...they have done an 180 since. Hopefully Remington will also.

April 14, 2013, 05:55 AM	#100
LockedBreech Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Location: Rocky Mountain West Posts: 3,395	Remington takes the money from NY/Pentagon deal I had been weighing options for my first hunting rifle, and it was coming down to Remington 700 versus Ruger M77. I can get the Ruger in stainless for the price of the 700 in blue. There may be more aftermarket stuff for the 700, but I'll go with the M77. Ruger went to the mat for us this time. That should be rewarded. Remington didn't. That shouldn't. I'll keep my 870, but from here on I'll go with competing brands.

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