38/357 do you use a Factory Crimp Die? - Page 3

Real Gun · December 15, 2013, 10:03 PM

What caliber? Shot in what gun? What is the barrel slug measurement?

It's not a matter of accuracy as much as it is of barrel fouling with lead. If your bullets somehow bump up to seal the barrel, that would be contrary to what is reported for so many others.

If your bullets are too hard for the FCD to swage, reloading must take a lot of effort on the press handle. Something has to give to allow that extra fraction for lead bullets.

Misssissippi Dave · December 15, 2013, 10:28 PM

I have never felt the need to use a FCD for any pistol caliber. I find the roll crimp that came with my .357 dies to be enough. The calibers I load requiring a taper crimp also work well with the crimp dies in my sets.

WESHOOT2 · December 18, 2013, 03:09 PM

I use LEE Carbide Factory Crimp Dies for 9x19, 38 Super, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP.

I do not use them for 9x21 or 41 AE.
I do not use them for every lot of ammo when loading with new cases.

For every revolver cartridge I use the superior Redding Profile Crimp Die for its demonstrated accuracy and ballistic uniformity enhancements.

Jim243 · December 18, 2013, 04:08 PM

I was going to answer, but there is so much misinformation and bias in this post that it would take a week to correct all of them. That's not going to happen.

I was wondering why Brian or Unclenick did not post a reply here, now I understand.

Jim

Real Gun · December 18, 2013, 06:25 PM

Rather than pose as above it all, how about sharing some of what you believe is misinformation.

mattL46 · December 18, 2013, 09:05 PM

When I first got my carbide die set from lee. (4 die set) I was using the FCD (which is actually the taper crimp. The bullet seater uses a Roll) and it actually would pull my bullets deeper into the case the more crimp was applied. With some help and research I found that the roll crimp was what was needed. Havent been reloading long enough to tell you why the bullet was actually getting seated deeper. I think it was just the profile of the crimp. It was being folded in such a way that when it contacted the bullet it forced it down into the case. anyhow switched to the roll crimp on the seating die and beautiful uniform crimps and seating depths were achieved. That's my .2 for what its worth anyhow.

ddc · December 18, 2013, 10:00 PM

Quote:

When I first got my carbide die set from lee. (4 die set) I was using the FCD (which is actually the taper crimp. The bullet seater uses a Roll) and it actually would pull my bullets deeper into the case the more crimp was applied. With some help and research I found that the roll crimp was what was needed. Havent been reloading long enough to tell you why the bullet was actually getting seated deeper. I think it was just the profile of the crimp. It was being folded in such a way that when it contacted the bullet it forced it down into the case. anyhow switched to the roll crimp on the seating die and beautiful uniform crimps and seating depths were achieved. That's my .2 for what its worth anyhow.

I'm curious which cartridge you are referencing here. Also are you sure that your seating die does a roll but that your crimp die does a taper? That seems odd to my limited knowledge base. I would assume (ouch!) that whatever crimp the seating die performed the FCD would do likewise. But what do I know...

Real Gun · December 19, 2013, 08:25 AM

MattL46 should review that, because it doesn't makes sense with the wording he chose.

BigD_in_FL · December 19, 2013, 08:45 AM

I have only been reloading 38/357 for 35 years or so, so I do not claim to have all the answers, but in all those years using a basic RCBS three die carbide set, I seat and crimp in one step and it comes out perfect every single time - this is using 158 LSWC bullets, typically hard cast from what was West Coast bullet (now Xtreme). Crimp is perfectly set in the groove where it needs to be. Never any issues in use either.

Methinks some folks overthink this stuff; straight-walled pistol loading is not rocket science - JMO, YMMV

Real Gun · December 19, 2013, 08:53 AM

Quote:

straight-walled pistol loading is not rocket science

But reducing or eliminating barrel leading, and revolvers splattering lead all over the forcing cones IS a bit of a science.

It's not all in the reloading. Six of my guns are at the gunsmith's now with more to follow. Revolver cylinder throats closely matching the barrel slug size is not as common as one might think. I have at least one with a rough looking forcing cone as well.

F. Guffey · December 19, 2013, 09:08 AM

Do I have factory crimp dies made by Lee? Yes, I have FCD dies, do I use them? No. I do not use FCD dies, but, I have them JIC, as in just in case.

Two step bullet seating as in seat then crimp. I load on a Dillon 550. If I decide to crimp separately I will crimp after the bullets are kicked out because I use a lock out die in the Dillon, The Dillon has 4 position tool head, something they overlooked when they decided to go with seat on one position and crimp on a position that dies not exist if the reloader is using a lock out die.

Then there is that problem with appearance, I can look at my reloads, other reloaders reloaded ammo etc., and tell if my or their ammo will feed into two of my 45 ACP pistols. If the case looks like a snake that swallowed the bullet, they will not load/feed.

Remedy? I use a RCBS carbide sizing die to size the upper half of the case after seating and a half hazard attempt at tapper crimping. I have 2 45 ACPs that like new ammo or ammo that looks like new ammo.

Later? Redding now makes a profile die, I changed the profile with a sizer die, Redding makes a die that changes the profile.

F. Guffey

mattL46 · December 19, 2013, 11:51 AM

Referring to 38/357 which is what this post is about. Maybe I'm wrong about the type of crimp. Didn't see anything wrong with my choice of words however. I was to believe the bullet seater roll crimped and the FCD used a taper. If not I'll stand corrected. That was my experience with the FCD. It would actually seat the bullet deeper. No I wasn't seeing things. I began to use the bullet seated to crimp through advice on this forum. After that my OAL didn't change.

mattL46 · December 19, 2013, 12:00 PM

After "reviewing" my first comment. I researched a little. Supposedly the crimp dies supplied are appropriate for your application. Whether its an auto cartridge or a revolver. Roll crimping for the latter. Still doesn't explain why the FCD was actually seating my bullets deeper. It was a125 gn JSP. At the time. Hmm... Any suggestions on that?

wogpotter · December 19, 2013, 12:03 PM

The FCD carbide isn't quite either. Its pretty much unique as it has partially a taper but can be adjusted to finish of with something close to a roll.
In short its a factory not a taper nor a roll in the strict sense of the term as used with other dies.

December 18, 2013, 03:09 PM	#53
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	new or used cases? I use LEE Carbide Factory Crimp Dies for 9x19, 38 Super, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP. I do not use them for 9x21 or 41 AE. I do not use them for every lot of ammo when loading with new cases. For every revolver cartridge I use the superior Redding Profile Crimp Die for its demonstrated accuracy and ballistic uniformity enhancements. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

December 18, 2013, 04:08 PM	#54
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	I was going to answer, but there is so much misinformation and bias in this post that it would take a week to correct all of them. That's not going to happen. I was wondering why Brian or Unclenick did not post a reply here, now I understand. Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

December 19, 2013, 09:08 AM	#61
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Do I have factory crimp dies made by Lee? Yes, I have FCD dies, do I use them? No. I do not use FCD dies, but, I have them JIC, as in just in case. Two step bullet seating as in seat then crimp. I load on a Dillon 550. If I decide to crimp separately I will crimp after the bullets are kicked out because I use a lock out die in the Dillon, The Dillon has 4 position tool head, something they overlooked when they decided to go with seat on one position and crimp on a position that dies not exist if the reloader is using a lock out die. Then there is that problem with appearance, I can look at my reloads, other reloaders reloaded ammo etc., and tell if my or their ammo will feed into two of my 45 ACP pistols. If the case looks like a snake that swallowed the bullet, they will not load/feed. Remedy? I use a RCBS carbide sizing die to size the upper half of the case after seating and a half hazard attempt at tapper crimping. I have 2 45 ACPs that like new ammo or ammo that looks like new ammo. Later? Redding now makes a profile die, I changed the profile with a sizer die, Redding makes a die that changes the profile. F. Guffey Last edited by F. Guffey; December 19, 2013 at 09:09 AM. Reason: add l to too

December 19, 2013, 12:03 PM	#64
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	The FCD carbide isn't quite either. Its pretty much unique as it has partially a taper but can be adjusted to finish of with something close to a roll. In short its a factory not a taper nor a roll in the strict sense of the term as used with other dies. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

December 15, 2013, 10:03 PM	#51
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	What caliber? Shot in what gun? What is the barrel slug measurement? It's not a matter of accuracy as much as it is of barrel fouling with lead. If your bullets somehow bump up to seal the barrel, that would be contrary to what is reported for so many others. If your bullets are too hard for the FCD to swage, reloading must take a lot of effort on the press handle. Something has to give to allow that extra fraction for lead bullets.

December 15, 2013, 10:28 PM	#52
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	I have never felt the need to use a FCD for any pistol caliber. I find the roll crimp that came with my .357 dies to be enough. The calibers I load requiring a taper crimp also work well with the crimp dies in my sets.

December 18, 2013, 06:25 PM	#55
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	Rather than pose as above it all, how about sharing some of what you believe is misinformation.

December 18, 2013, 09:05 PM	#56
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	When I first got my carbide die set from lee. (4 die set) I was using the FCD (which is actually the taper crimp. The bullet seater uses a Roll) and it actually would pull my bullets deeper into the case the more crimp was applied. With some help and research I found that the roll crimp was what was needed. Havent been reloading long enough to tell you why the bullet was actually getting seated deeper. I think it was just the profile of the crimp. It was being folded in such a way that when it contacted the bullet it forced it down into the case. anyhow switched to the roll crimp on the seating die and beautiful uniform crimps and seating depths were achieved. That's my .2 for what its worth anyhow.

December 19, 2013, 08:25 AM	#58
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	MattL46 should review that, because it doesn't makes sense with the wording he chose.

December 19, 2013, 08:45 AM	#59
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	I have only been reloading 38/357 for 35 years or so, so I do not claim to have all the answers, but in all those years using a basic RCBS three die carbide set, I seat and crimp in one step and it comes out perfect every single time - this is using 158 LSWC bullets, typically hard cast from what was West Coast bullet (now Xtreme). Crimp is perfectly set in the groove where it needs to be. Never any issues in use either. Methinks some folks overthink this stuff; straight-walled pistol loading is not rocket science - JMO, YMMV

December 19, 2013, 11:51 AM	#62
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	Referring to 38/357 which is what this post is about. Maybe I'm wrong about the type of crimp. Didn't see anything wrong with my choice of words however. I was to believe the bullet seater roll crimped and the FCD used a taper. If not I'll stand corrected. That was my experience with the FCD. It would actually seat the bullet deeper. No I wasn't seeing things. I began to use the bullet seated to crimp through advice on this forum. After that my OAL didn't change.

December 19, 2013, 12:00 PM	#63
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	After "reviewing" my first comment. I researched a little. Supposedly the crimp dies supplied are appropriate for your application. Whether its an auto cartridge or a revolver. Roll crimping for the latter. Still doesn't explain why the FCD was actually seating my bullets deeper. It was a125 gn JSP. At the time. Hmm... Any suggestions on that?