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August 13, 2008, 04:38 PM | #51 | |
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conservatives, right? Did you get lost on your way to an abortion rally? |
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August 13, 2008, 04:40 PM | #52 | |
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August 13, 2008, 04:41 PM | #53 |
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While time at the range is all well and good, nothing is better than force on force training. Unfortunately, very few facilities offer it. It the opportunity presents itself, training on a FATS system is outstanding.
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August 13, 2008, 04:53 PM | #54 | |
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It is certainly your right to have that opinion but it is not IMO in the spirit of the "grand experiment".
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August 13, 2008, 05:02 PM | #55 | |
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The government governs at the pleasure of the people. The people don't owe anybody anything. |
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August 13, 2008, 07:08 PM | #56 |
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Your level of training should be such that you can draw, fire and hit your target reactively without thinking about the steps needed. This frees your mind to deal with the threat situation - evaluating the threat, evaluating retreat options and non-violent resolutions, etc.
Once your training is such that you can at least get your firearm quickly into service, you can move on to more advanced training. Such training would include using speedloaders, cover, movement, contact-distance techniques, etc. All that "fun stuff". I'll add the normal disclaimer here that one should carry a less-than-lethal form of defense (e.g. pepper spray) when practical. Even if for no other reason than to give you a chance to avoid shooting the gene-tampered turkey who's asking to be shot. The bigger question is can too much training hurt you in court? I think it can. Pax's idea of re-taking the same training course every year (or two) doesn't get you into the trouble. It's the guys who take the ultra-advanced courses or courses in hand-to-hand/knife fighting too. I can see that training being flaunted before a jury to paint someone as willing to skip less-lethal means just so they could shoot someone.
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August 13, 2008, 07:18 PM | #57 | |
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We're not even a nation, are we? We're just a bunch of people who happen to live on the same continent, and everything we have we had coming from day one and no one ever had to do anything for us, so we shouldn't have to bother doing anything for our neighbors and the next generation, right? Lucky for us all that our Founding Fathers and a lot of veterans over the past two centuries didn't share your point of view. |
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August 13, 2008, 07:27 PM | #58 |
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BillCA
Got into this thread, LATE, again.
Reading through this I am very impressed with all the wisdom. PAX, ERIC, and you have driven the nail home in my opinion. The first paragraph of your last post is "right there for me", simply and clearly AND in one paragraph. One of my standard banters to folks who ask about skills for survival is: "Once the combat envelope wraps its' cold clammy arms around you, there is more than enough to think about besides how your weapon works, what condition of readiness IT IS IN, or where it shoots to." Good job folks. Good Luck & Be Safe
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August 13, 2008, 07:29 PM | #59 | |
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Bad DUI convictions occur every day. Like a conviction for being drunk and sleeping inside the car parked on private property. Misdemeanor violence? C'mon... lots of small guys have such records because someone picked a fight with them and cops charged everyone just to let the court settle it. Public service should be a voluntary choice, not a mandate. I prefer volunteer military service over conscription too. Become an NRA member? A government requirement to join a private organization? Should the gov't require doctors to join the AMA? Or madate which union everyone should belong to? All of your rules, while I'm sure they're well intended, are far overboard. One can be taught the basic principles in two days (16 hours). It is then up to the "student" to practice to become proficient. Failing that, they should be seeking remedial help on their own. It is not up to the government to hold someone's hand and make them proficient or skilled. If the student takes the course, never practices, fails to heed the instruction and gets himself killed then he's the one to blame. Likewise if he can't keep all six on his target at 7 yards, he faces the burden of legal and civil liabilities.
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August 13, 2008, 07:49 PM | #60 | |
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Let me just say that the most precious gifts in life are not bought but freely given. I contribute to society. Over my working life, I've paid 1/2 million dollars in taxes. And I willingly and freely volunteer my time to causes and charities which I deem are worthy. Being forced to volunteer is an oxymoron. Totalitarian governments thrive on such self contradictions. Yes, freedom was given to me freely. And if my country is invaded, I would willingly give my life to protect it. Freedom freely given. Life freely sacrificed. Nothing coerced. That's the essence of liberty, which you don't seem to grasp. I think I'm done talking to you. Cheers, Jae |
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August 13, 2008, 07:52 PM | #61 | |
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August 13, 2008, 08:00 PM | #62 | |
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I honor each and every person who serves and/or and dies for my FREEDOM. Compulsory service is one of many things they fight and die to prevent. I'm not man enough to be a soldier but I thank God every day (literally) for those who are. PS- What in the friggin' world does this have to do with prudent training levels?
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August 13, 2008, 08:05 PM | #63 | |
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And on a more practical note, based on your elitist criteria a young law abiding adult female that simply takes a 12 hour CCW course and passes her competency test would not be able to carry a gun to protect herself just because she wasn't trained to become a combination of Delta Force operative plus Lawyer. I think you came up with a well intentioned list but I don't think that you really thought your position through well enough. And mandatory NRA membership, or even voting for that matter, doesn't really go well with the concept of "Liberty". |
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August 13, 2008, 08:08 PM | #64 | |
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Every culture thinks tourists are clueless. The French think American tourists are stupid. Americans think French tourists are stupid, etc etc Well, when you're in a strange place you have to consciously process unfamiliar surroundings, unfamiliar currency, strange language, etc. But in your native surroundings, you don't have to think about speaking, using money, driving, or any other routine task. That frees up your brain to think about other things. But a tourist you run into in your own native environment is processing a lot of extra information consciously. So, tourists appear dumb because they only have half a brain to work with. The rest of their brain is being used to make sense of unfamiliar data. You cannot be a tourist to gunfight land. You have to be a native. You need all of your brain available to you for "Do I run away. Do I pepper spray this bastard. Where is the nearest cover. If not cover, where is the nearest concealment. Is the perp armed. If so, with what? Does his weapon have greater range than mine? I should back away from this perp so that the increased distance gives me a little more time. The perp is still coming. I need to tell him that I'm armed and if he comes any closer, I'll bust a cap in his buttocks. O.K. I yelled, but he's still coming. I'm now behind cover. I should kneel so that I have a more stable platform. The perp is danger close. BANG BANG" |
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August 13, 2008, 08:13 PM | #65 | |
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1) THAT is one of the better analogies I seen. 2) I still say 1 too many creative writing classes.
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August 13, 2008, 08:44 PM | #66 |
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1. Pick a gun/platform that suits you. Memorize the 4 rules
2. Train until you are comfortable that you can draw and fire, putting your shots in a 4 inch circle at 7 yards. 3. Shoot as much as you can, as often as you can with your carry platform. (I try to at least shoot 250 rounds a month through my carry gun.)
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August 13, 2008, 10:52 PM | #67 |
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Good grief, this thread has turned into a mish-mash.
Should I send it over to L&P, so everyone can argue the Legal & Political question about whether training should be required by law? I could ... but rereading the initial post, that's not what the thread topic was supposed to be here. Should I keep it in T&T, so everyone can discuss the Tactics and Training a prudent concealed carry permit holder will get for himself or herself? Love to do that, but an awful lot of people have gotten wildly away from that topic. Should I try to split the two threads, tossing L&P posts to L&P, while retaining the T&T posts for right here? Ugh! Too darn much work, too hard to follow, too rude for the conversation. Guess I'll just close it. Anyone want to reopen the topic you're discussing, please do so in the appropriate forum and with a clear statement of which topic it is. pax |
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