Euroarms 1860 New Model Army

1860Army · March 3, 2024, 04:38 PM

Hello Members,

I recently came into ownership of a Euroarms Brescia 1860 New Model Army .44 caliber cap and ball revolver and now I am a new member to this group. The previous owner did not have any paperwork or instructions with the revolver but he told me that he used to load between 22 and 25 grains of fffg black powder with a .454 lead ball. The date coding on the revolver tells me that it was manufactured in 1974. It has a steel frame with a brass trigger guard and grip strap. He used sealing lube on the end of each cylinder but I had a question about this practice-is it better to use sealing lube on the end of each cylinder or are lubed wads placed between the powder charge and the ball a better way to go? Do the wads do a good job of reducing fouling in the barrel and keeping that fouling soft for easy cleaning? I've seen Wonder wads and Walters wads for sale and I was wondering which would be better to use and what size would be best. I have fffg black powder along with Triple Seven powder substitute. My understanding is that the Triple Seven load should be about 15% less than that of the fffg black powder load. Is this correct?
The revolver came in a nice wooden compartmented box for storage and presentation but no paperwork was present. Does anyone know of a good source to obtain the correct owner and instruction manuals for this revolver? If there is no such source, would any member who has this paperwork be willing to copy it and provide me with that copy? Thank you very much for any responses and I look forward to being a member for a long time.

Joe

Deltadart · March 3, 2024, 08:25 PM

Welcome Joe!
The lubricant does help keep the fouling soft, and there are certainly plenty to choose from, plus a lot more homemade ones from different recipes. Also it will assist with preventing chain firing, which is the chambers on either side of the one lined up with the barrel should fire. This is a pretty rare occurrence, but very unpleasant when it does happen. Sometimes a ball is dropped on the hard floor creating a flat spot that does not seal properly when the ball is seated.
When loaded properly you will see a small lead ring shaved off the ball at seating. Wads also do a great job in preventing this and lubricating. You will probably want to look into paper cartridges for convenience at the range and ease of loading. There are several different kits available as well, Cap and Ball makes one, Guns of the West is excellent, and others as well. You can make some items to help the process yourself. If you go the paper cartridge route, for me the slow part was cutting the paper to form into the "cones". I made this template from some scrap wood and a cam lock. This way you can cut about 10 sheets at a time from cigarette paper.

Hellgate · March 3, 2024, 08:47 PM

Very likely your Euroarms chamber mouths aer slightly chamfered so there will be not shaved ring of lead to delight you. However the ball will be easier to seat and be swaged in place for a good seal. I buy 1/2" thick fiber filler wads of .45 caliber from Track of the Wolf in bags of 500. Then I lube them with 50:50 beeswax olive oil. You can use any number of sources of "oil" for the 50/50 mix: Crisco, lard, peanut oil, tallow, etc. Once lubed and cooled I split them into halves or thirds to get 1/8"-1/4" tall wads to put onto the powder before ramming the ball. I don't put lube over the balls anymore because it's too messy for me but I did it that way for years before wad making. Preventing cap jams is another issue we can get into if that becomes a problem.

44 Dave · March 4, 2024, 07:31 AM

Colt's directions.jpg

1860Army · March 4, 2024, 12:29 PM

Hello,

Thank you for the welcome, the information and the directions provided. I looked at the mouth of each cylinder and they do appear to have a chamfer on the edge so I'm guessing that a .454 ball will not show any shavings while being seated. I had not noticed this when first examining the revolver. Is the Euroarms New Model Army .44 a good, quality black powder revolver? I've heard the names of other brands, Pietta and Uberti, much more frequently than I heard the Euroarms brand name. Does this revolver have any unusual characteristics to it? I have already taken it apart once to check out its mechanics before acquiring it and everything looked tight, right and clean. It was easy to break down. CCI #10 percussion caps fit on the nipples just fine. Is there a source for a spare set of nipples? What thread is on the nipples and can the existing ones be replaced with a nipple that would take a #11 cap? The reason that I ask is that it seems easier to find the #11 caps than it is to find the #10's. Thank you again and have a pleasant day.

Joe

Deltadart · March 4, 2024, 01:09 PM

Treso products have a selection of nipples for your revolver. I would call them first if I were you, great folks there in Montana. You can order from them I think or Buffalo Arms, and others. I only have Uberti Remington New Model Army revolvers, and carbine, aka 1858 Remington which historically incorrect, but that is another story.
https://issuu.com/treso/docs/treso-m...-catalog_2013#

44caliberkid · March 4, 2024, 01:13 PM

I have been shooting cap and ball revolvers for 55 years. Have been shooting C&B class in Cowboy matches since 2000. My way is certainly not the only way, I’ll just tell you what has worked for me, my personal preferences.
I use a powder flask with a 25 grain spout and 3F black powder. I lube over the ball, partly because that is the way I started, but in cowboy matches were I might be shooting up to 10 stages in a day, it keeps the fouling super soft. I just wipe the grease off the exterior with a rag between stages. After a match the barrel comes clean with a soap and water wash and one patch.
.451 to .454 balls will all work, especially if you lube over the ball. I made a cap pusher from wooden dowel rod to make sure they go bang on the first try every time. For casual shooting the stock nipples are fine, but better nips like Slix Shot or Tresso are an improvement. Welcome to a really fun aspect of shooting. Also check out The Darksiders Den forum on the www.cascity.com website for lots of useful info.

Hellgate · March 4, 2024, 06:50 PM

'60Army,
You will find there are 3 current makers of percussion caps designated as #10 or #11 in size. The #10 Remington cap fits a broader range of nipple shapes than any of the others. However I'm not sure if Remington caps are even being made anymore. If you find some #10 Remingtons, grab them. They are unobtainuim. The #11RWS and CCI/Winchester caps are close in size to the Remington #10. The Slix-Shot nipples state on the package they only fit Rem #10, RWS #1075 (called #11s) and the CCI/WW #11 cap. A few guns might accept the RWS#55(called 10s) and the CCI/WW#10s if their nipples are smaller. The Euroarms nipple threads are the same as for the Piettas. If the CCI#10s you have fire on the first hit of the hammer then you are GTG. The CCI#10s seem to be a little more available because the CCI#11s get snapped up. Armi san Poalo changed its name to Euroarms but is no longer making C&Bs.

Hawg · March 4, 2024, 11:29 PM

I must have stronger thumbs than everybody else. I don't have a problem seating CCI #10's on factory nipples. They do fit tighter and if you decide to take them off all I can say is good luck. If you can't seat them with your thumb just get a piece of wood dowel to seat them with. All I use is CCI #10 except for one Remington somebody swapped the nipples for stainless ones that take #11 caps. I have to pinch CCI #11 caps on factory nipples. I don't like Remington caps and won't buy them unless I can't find CCI.

Ricklin · March 6, 2024, 12:03 PM

I like using a small press to load the cylinder off the gun. I get a better feel for it rather than loading using the pistol's rammer.
I'm a fan of the Wonder wads and round balls, I do not grease on top of the balls.
I'm an 1858 NMA fan, easy to swap cylinders so I have taken to using the press.

1860Army · March 6, 2024, 01:37 PM

Hello,

Thank you for all of the replies. Hellgate indicates that the nipple thread of the Euroarms revolver is the same as that of the Pietta revolver. What thread is that? 12-28, 12-32, 6 x .75 or something else? Is there a specific nipple part number that will fit the threads of the Euroarms revolver and take #11 caps?

Joe

Deltadart · March 6, 2024, 02:03 PM

As long as we are talking about C&B loads for revolvers, I have a question. I was recovering some of the lead balls and conical from my shooting area and I found several of my .36 caliber round balls with the 1/8" wad still attached to the ball. I use 1/4 inch felt soaked in 50/50 bees wax and olive oil, then split the wads to get the 1/8 wads for use. Has anyone else experienced this?

Hellgate · March 6, 2024, 04:56 PM

6X.75 for Pietta, ASP/Euroarms
12-28 for Uberti, Armi San Marco, Ruger Old Army

'60Army, go to Track of the wolf. Search "nipples".There's 4 pages of them. measure the heighth of your gun's cone, go to page 2 and find the match with 6X.75 threads. Not all replicas have the same tallness of the cone part of the nipple. If you get a short cone the hammer wont hit the cap. Odds are the Slix-shot nipples will work just fine. I prefer a flash hole smaller than stock so you get less blowback. Treso nipples have the smallest flash holes I've seen.

Deltadart, never had a wad stick to a ball that dirt or a target didn't knock it off. I've had some overly lubed wads go flying off sizzling powder to create a fire hazard.

44 Dave · March 6, 2024, 10:58 PM

Euroarms nipples are shorter than Pietta.

M6 x .75 x .500 Long
Fits Euroarms Revolver
(6 Per Package)

1860Army · March 8, 2024, 02:05 PM

Hello,

Thank you for all of the replies and the wealth of information provided. I found the proper size on the Track of the Wolf website in both blued steel and stainless. Are either of these better than the Treso version made of Ampco or are the Treso version with the small hole more desirable and longer lasting? Have a great weekend.

Joe

Hellgate · March 8, 2024, 02:50 PM

I would recommend the Treso nipples. I have no idea whether they last longer. I doubt you will shoot the gun enough to ever wear out the nipples. Wearing out would mean the flash holes opening up or battering the cones from bad timing. The smaller flash holes minimize blowback of the caps when the gun fires and you get fewer cap jams. Another cause of cap jams is the cap getting caught in that little notch on the bottom of the hammer face which allows the hammer to rest on safety pins between the chambers on the back of the cylinder. If your gun does not have those pins then fill that little notch with JP Weld so it can't lift the fired cap off the nipple during cocking. Just be sure to keep nipple picks handy to probe and clear the flash holes before starting a shooting session. I don't know if TOW nipples have smaller flash holes than what come with the gun. Butler Creek replacement nipple flash holes were always smaller than the factory ones they replaced.

44 Dave · March 8, 2024, 05:17 PM

I use Treso nipples and know they make the Euroarms short ones.
I tried some (pietta 6x.75) which are too long and on my 1860. The cap hit the recoil shield on firing causing a multiple discharge.
Didn't figure out what was happening until it did that twice!

March 3, 2024, 08:47 PM	#3
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	Very likely your Euroarms chamber mouths aer slightly chamfered so there will be not shaved ring of lead to delight you. However the ball will be easier to seat and be swaged in place for a good seal. I buy 1/2" thick fiber filler wads of .45 caliber from Track of the Wolf in bags of 500. Then I lube them with 50:50 beeswax olive oil. You can use any number of sources of "oil" for the 50/50 mix: Crisco, lard, peanut oil, tallow, etc. Once lubed and cooled I split them into halves or thirds to get 1/8"-1/4" tall wads to put onto the powder before ramming the ball. I don't put lube over the balls anymore because it's too messy for me but I did it that way for years before wad making. Preventing cap jams is another issue we can get into if that becomes a problem. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

March 4, 2024, 06:50 PM	#8
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	'60Army, You will find there are 3 current makers of percussion caps designated as #10 or #11 in size. The #10 Remington cap fits a broader range of nipple shapes than any of the others. However I'm not sure if Remington caps are even being made anymore. If you find some #10 Remingtons, grab them. They are unobtainuim. The #11RWS and CCI/Winchester caps are close in size to the Remington #10. The Slix-Shot nipples state on the package they only fit Rem #10, RWS #1075 (called #11s) and the CCI/WW #11 cap. A few guns might accept the RWS#55(called 10s) and the CCI/WW#10s if their nipples are smaller. The Euroarms nipple threads are the same as for the Piettas. If the CCI#10s you have fire on the first hit of the hammer then you are GTG. The CCI#10s seem to be a little more available because the CCI#11s get snapped up. Armi san Poalo changed its name to Euroarms but is no longer making C&Bs. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

March 6, 2024, 04:56 PM	#13
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	6X.75 for Pietta, ASP/Euroarms 12-28 for Uberti, Armi San Marco, Ruger Old Army '60Army, go to Track of the wolf. Search "nipples".There's 4 pages of them. measure the heighth of your gun's cone, go to page 2 and find the match with 6X.75 threads. Not all replicas have the same tallness of the cone part of the nipple. If you get a short cone the hammer wont hit the cap. Odds are the Slix-shot nipples will work just fine. I prefer a flash hole smaller than stock so you get less blowback. Treso nipples have the smallest flash holes I've seen. Deltadart, never had a wad stick to a ball that dirt or a target didn't knock it off. I've had some overly lubed wads go flying off sizzling powder to create a fire hazard. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

March 8, 2024, 02:05 PM	#15
1860Army Junior Member Join Date: March 3, 2024 Posts: 5	Euroarms 1860 .44 Hello, Thank you for all of the replies and the wealth of information provided. I found the proper size on the Track of the Wolf website in both blued steel and stainless. Are either of these better than the Treso version made of Ampco or are the Treso version with the small hole more desirable and longer lasting? Have a great weekend. Joe

March 8, 2024, 02:50 PM	#16
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	I would recommend the Treso nipples. I have no idea whether they last longer. I doubt you will shoot the gun enough to ever wear out the nipples. Wearing out would mean the flash holes opening up or battering the cones from bad timing. The smaller flash holes minimize blowback of the caps when the gun fires and you get fewer cap jams. Another cause of cap jams is the cap getting caught in that little notch on the bottom of the hammer face which allows the hammer to rest on safety pins between the chambers on the back of the cylinder. If your gun does not have those pins then fill that little notch with JP Weld so it can't lift the fired cap off the nipple during cocking. Just be sure to keep nipple picks handy to probe and clear the flash holes before starting a shooting session. I don't know if TOW nipples have smaller flash holes than what come with the gun. Butler Creek replacement nipple flash holes were always smaller than the factory ones they replaced. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

March 3, 2024, 04:38 PM	#1
1860Army Junior Member Join Date: March 3, 2024 Posts: 5	Euroarms 1860 New Model Army Hello Members, I recently came into ownership of a Euroarms Brescia 1860 New Model Army .44 caliber cap and ball revolver and now I am a new member to this group. The previous owner did not have any paperwork or instructions with the revolver but he told me that he used to load between 22 and 25 grains of fffg black powder with a .454 lead ball. The date coding on the revolver tells me that it was manufactured in 1974. It has a steel frame with a brass trigger guard and grip strap. He used sealing lube on the end of each cylinder but I had a question about this practice-is it better to use sealing lube on the end of each cylinder or are lubed wads placed between the powder charge and the ball a better way to go? Do the wads do a good job of reducing fouling in the barrel and keeping that fouling soft for easy cleaning? I've seen Wonder wads and Walters wads for sale and I was wondering which would be better to use and what size would be best. I have fffg black powder along with Triple Seven powder substitute. My understanding is that the Triple Seven load should be about 15% less than that of the fffg black powder load. Is this correct? The revolver came in a nice wooden compartmented box for storage and presentation but no paperwork was present. Does anyone know of a good source to obtain the correct owner and instruction manuals for this revolver? If there is no such source, would any member who has this paperwork be willing to copy it and provide me with that copy? Thank you very much for any responses and I look forward to being a member for a long time. Joe

March 4, 2024, 07:31 AM	#4
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	Colt's directions.jpg

March 4, 2024, 12:29 PM	#5
1860Army Junior Member Join Date: March 3, 2024 Posts: 5	1860 Euroarms New Model Army .44 Hello, Thank you for the welcome, the information and the directions provided. I looked at the mouth of each cylinder and they do appear to have a chamfer on the edge so I'm guessing that a .454 ball will not show any shavings while being seated. I had not noticed this when first examining the revolver. Is the Euroarms New Model Army .44 a good, quality black powder revolver? I've heard the names of other brands, Pietta and Uberti, much more frequently than I heard the Euroarms brand name. Does this revolver have any unusual characteristics to it? I have already taken it apart once to check out its mechanics before acquiring it and everything looked tight, right and clean. It was easy to break down. CCI #10 percussion caps fit on the nipples just fine. Is there a source for a spare set of nipples? What thread is on the nipples and can the existing ones be replaced with a nipple that would take a #11 cap? The reason that I ask is that it seems easier to find the #11 caps than it is to find the #10's. Thank you again and have a pleasant day. Joe

March 4, 2024, 01:09 PM	#6
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	Treso products have a selection of nipples for your revolver. I would call them first if I were you, great folks there in Montana. You can order from them I think or Buffalo Arms, and others. I only have Uberti Remington New Model Army revolvers, and carbine, aka 1858 Remington which historically incorrect, but that is another story. https://issuu.com/treso/docs/treso-m...-catalog_2013#

March 4, 2024, 01:13 PM	#7
44caliberkid Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2017 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,104	I have been shooting cap and ball revolvers for 55 years. Have been shooting C&B class in Cowboy matches since 2000. My way is certainly not the only way, I’ll just tell you what has worked for me, my personal preferences. I use a powder flask with a 25 grain spout and 3F black powder. I lube over the ball, partly because that is the way I started, but in cowboy matches were I might be shooting up to 10 stages in a day, it keeps the fouling super soft. I just wipe the grease off the exterior with a rag between stages. After a match the barrel comes clean with a soap and water wash and one patch. .451 to .454 balls will all work, especially if you lube over the ball. I made a cap pusher from wooden dowel rod to make sure they go bang on the first try every time. For casual shooting the stock nipples are fine, but better nips like Slix Shot or Tresso are an improvement. Welcome to a really fun aspect of shooting. Also check out The Darksiders Den forum on the www.cascity.com website for lots of useful info.

March 4, 2024, 11:29 PM	#9
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	I must have stronger thumbs than everybody else. I don't have a problem seating CCI #10's on factory nipples. They do fit tighter and if you decide to take them off all I can say is good luck. If you can't seat them with your thumb just get a piece of wood dowel to seat them with. All I use is CCI #10 except for one Remington somebody swapped the nipples for stainless ones that take #11 caps. I have to pinch CCI #11 caps on factory nipples. I don't like Remington caps and won't buy them unless I can't find CCI.

March 6, 2024, 12:03 PM	#10
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,016	Cylinder loading press I like using a small press to load the cylinder off the gun. I get a better feel for it rather than loading using the pistol's rammer. I'm a fan of the Wonder wads and round balls, I do not grease on top of the balls. I'm an 1858 NMA fan, easy to swap cylinders so I have taken to using the press. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

March 6, 2024, 01:37 PM	#11
1860Army Junior Member Join Date: March 3, 2024 Posts: 5	1860 Army 44 Hello, Thank you for all of the replies. Hellgate indicates that the nipple thread of the Euroarms revolver is the same as that of the Pietta revolver. What thread is that? 12-28, 12-32, 6 x .75 or something else? Is there a specific nipple part number that will fit the threads of the Euroarms revolver and take #11 caps? Joe

March 6, 2024, 02:03 PM	#12
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	As long as we are talking about C&B loads for revolvers, I have a question. I was recovering some of the lead balls and conical from my shooting area and I found several of my .36 caliber round balls with the 1/8" wad still attached to the ball. I use 1/4 inch felt soaked in 50/50 bees wax and olive oil, then split the wads to get the 1/8 wads for use. Has anyone else experienced this?

March 6, 2024, 10:58 PM	#14
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	Euroarms nipples are shorter than Pietta. M6 x .75 x .500 Long Fits Euroarms Revolver (6 Per Package)

March 8, 2024, 05:17 PM	#17
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	I use Treso nipples and know they make the Euroarms short ones. I tried some (pietta 6x.75) which are too long and on my 1860. The cap hit the recoil shield on firing causing a multiple discharge. Didn't figure out what was happening until it did that twice!