How stout a load??---.38 SPL and .357 Mag Wad-cutters

Southern Shooter · June 16, 2010, 07:58 PM

How stout a load can be SAFELY made with hard cast, 148 grain Wad-cutters, using Bullseye powder, in .38 Special and .357 Magnum shell casings? What kind of velocity can one get from those rounds??

Thanks

greco · June 16, 2010, 08:14 PM

In a .38, I wouldn't go over 3 grains. You will get a LOT of lead in the bore. I never tried it in a .357. If you wanna go faster in those calibers, try another powder that isn't so fast burning. Use 2400, 4756, Unique and others. Bullseye has a specific niche in the loading world. It's for light to medium target loads, and is used in small quantities/load. A pound goes a LONG way. It doesn't take much to go from a target load to a grenade.

wncchester · June 16, 2010, 08:37 PM

I would suggest you follow the load data in your manual.

"Stout" and "Bullseye" are mutually exclusive terms, and rightly so.

Southern Shooter · June 16, 2010, 08:43 PM

What if Unique were used? What are we talking about then?

Thanks

l98ster · June 16, 2010, 08:56 PM

If you are using hollow based wadcutters, you are going to start to blow the skirt off the bullet at around 950fps. I would limit HBWC to about 800fps. 2.7gr of bullseye will get you to about that.

If the are DEWC (double end wad cutter), meaning a solid wadcutter, you can get your velocities slightly higher, but you are going to start leading the barrel.

Since oyu are using a wadcutter, I assume you are using the load for target purposes. 2.8gr bullseye under 148gr HBWC shoots AWESOME out of my python and Smith model 52.

If you want higher velocities, get away from lead and move to jacketed or plated. Zero and montana gold make great jacketed bullets, and Berrys is the king of plated.

-George

Southern Shooter · June 16, 2010, 09:14 PM

These are double end solid wad-cutters.

Jim Watson · June 16, 2010, 09:25 PM

Speer shows some pretty heavy loads with their bevel base wadcutter.
I won't repeat the "recipes" for fear of misprint but there are several in the edition I have.

Southern Shooter · June 17, 2010, 10:14 AM

Hey Jim, where can that information be found? Is it on-line?

Thanks

zippy13 · June 17, 2010, 10:29 AM

Southern Shooter,
Check your e-mail

briandg · June 17, 2010, 10:33 AM

considering the reduced burn chamber of a wadcutter flush load, I think you're treading on dangerous territory trying to fire them with heavy loads.

margiesex · June 17, 2010, 10:35 AM

Lee's got some loads for the 148 grain for both .38 and .357.

148 grain wadcutter - .38 - Bullseye - 2.6 - never over2.8 = 769 - 815 fps

148 grain wadcutter - . 357 - Bullseye - 5.2 - never over 5.7 = 1354 - 1475 fps

Got some for Unique as well - page 555 and 565 -in Modern Reloading: Second Edition, Richard Lee

Be careful - I suspect lead all over the place as you get hotter.

Just a hunch.

God bless.

Margiesex

And remember - hug your God and your guns - 'cause he's coming for them sooner than we think!

Southern Shooter · June 17, 2010, 10:44 AM

The hard cast wad cutter I am using looks like this one. It is sold by Hunters Supply. NO hollow base to it.

Would it have to be loaded totally flush?? Or, do you leave some of this slightly sticking out?

Hunters Supply 38_148WC_WU.jpg

zxcvbob · June 17, 2010, 11:15 AM

Load those roll-crimped into the crimp groove (about 1/8" sticking out of the case) unless you are loading for a gun that needs them loaded flush.

Alliant used to have some impressive .357 Magnum DEWC load data using Bullseye just a few years ago, before they reworked their load book to specify only soft Speer bullets. Lemme look it up, I have a copy...

5.7 grains of Bullseye, but that's with the bullet seated all the way in the case (OAL = 1.33") It's supposed to deliver 1475 fps from a 5.6" barrel (that seems a little optimistic.) You can use more than 5.7 grains if you seat the bullet longer, but I don't know how much more.

Bullseye is an amazing powder. In small doses it acts like a very fast burning powder. In large doses, it acts like a medium powder. It's my current favorite powder for hot 9mm loads with lead bullets.

Southern Shooter · June 17, 2010, 01:53 PM

Is hard cast lead less likely to cause barrel leading at higher velocities? I am not looking for barn-burners with wad cutters. Just seeing how far they can be safely pushed.

AlaskaMike · June 18, 2010, 10:39 AM

I and many others push hard cast lead to 1400+ fps in magnum revolvers, but there will still be people who swear you can't go past 900 - 1000 fps without serious leading. Leading has far less to do with alloy hardness, and much more to do with proper bullet sizing relative to your barrel's groove diameter. A bullet that's too small will lead like crazy no matter how hard it is. On the other hand, a bullet that's properly sized to your gun's barrel will likely have minimal, if any leading even with relatively soft alloys.

I'd say you can safely push them to about 1000 fps in magnum cases without too much trouble. As has already been said earlier, the limiting factor is the reduced case capacity from the deeply seated bullet.

Mike

June 16, 2010, 07:58 PM	#1
Southern Shooter Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2005 Location: central Louisiana Posts: 469	How stout a load??---.38 SPL and .357 Mag Wad-cutters How stout a load can be SAFELY made with hard cast, 148 grain Wad-cutters, using Bullseye powder, in .38 Special and .357 Magnum shell casings? What kind of velocity can one get from those rounds?? Thanks __________________ "My plea is that we stop seeking out the storm and enjoy more fully sunlight. I am suggesting that as we go through life we accentuate the positive. I am asking that we look a little deeper for the good, that we still our voices of insult and sarcasm, that we more generously compliment and endorse virtue and effort." Gordon B. Hinckley

June 16, 2010, 08:14 PM	#2
greco Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2005 Posts: 125	In a .38, I wouldn't go over 3 grains. You will get a LOT of lead in the bore. I never tried it in a .357. If you wanna go faster in those calibers, try another powder that isn't so fast burning. Use 2400, 4756, Unique and others. Bullseye has a specific niche in the loading world. It's for light to medium target loads, and is used in small quantities/load. A pound goes a LONG way. It doesn't take much to go from a target load to a grenade. __________________ NRA Pistol, Shotgun, Rifle Instructor

June 16, 2010, 08:43 PM	#4
Southern Shooter Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2005 Location: central Louisiana Posts: 469	Unique in place of Bullseye? What if Unique were used? What are we talking about then? Thanks __________________ "My plea is that we stop seeking out the storm and enjoy more fully sunlight. I am suggesting that as we go through life we accentuate the positive. I am asking that we look a little deeper for the good, that we still our voices of insult and sarcasm, that we more generously compliment and endorse virtue and effort." Gordon B. Hinckley

June 16, 2010, 09:14 PM	#6
Southern Shooter Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2005 Location: central Louisiana Posts: 469	Double End Solid Wad-Cutters These are double end solid wad-cutters. __________________ "My plea is that we stop seeking out the storm and enjoy more fully sunlight. I am suggesting that as we go through life we accentuate the positive. I am asking that we look a little deeper for the good, that we still our voices of insult and sarcasm, that we more generously compliment and endorse virtue and effort." Gordon B. Hinckley

June 17, 2010, 10:14 AM	#8
Southern Shooter Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2005 Location: central Louisiana Posts: 469	Jim...Speer loading info? Hey Jim, where can that information be found? Is it on-line? Thanks __________________ "My plea is that we stop seeking out the storm and enjoy more fully sunlight. I am suggesting that as we go through life we accentuate the positive. I am asking that we look a little deeper for the good, that we still our voices of insult and sarcasm, that we more generously compliment and endorse virtue and effort." Gordon B. Hinckley

June 16, 2010, 08:37 PM	#3
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	I would suggest you follow the load data in your manual. "Stout" and "Bullseye" are mutually exclusive terms, and rightly so.

June 16, 2010, 08:56 PM	#5
l98ster Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2010 Location: Hopewell Junction, NY Posts: 454	If you are using hollow based wadcutters, you are going to start to blow the skirt off the bullet at around 950fps. I would limit HBWC to about 800fps. 2.7gr of bullseye will get you to about that. If the are DEWC (double end wad cutter), meaning a solid wadcutter, you can get your velocities slightly higher, but you are going to start leading the barrel. Since oyu are using a wadcutter, I assume you are using the load for target purposes. 2.8gr bullseye under 148gr HBWC shoots AWESOME out of my python and Smith model 52. If you want higher velocities, get away from lead and move to jacketed or plated. Zero and montana gold make great jacketed bullets, and Berrys is the king of plated. -George

June 16, 2010, 09:25 PM	#7
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Speer shows some pretty heavy loads with their bevel base wadcutter. I won't repeat the "recipes" for fear of misprint but there are several in the edition I have.

June 17, 2010, 10:29 AM	#9
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Southern Shooter, Check your e-mail

June 17, 2010, 10:33 AM	#10
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	considering the reduced burn chamber of a wadcutter flush load, I think you're treading on dangerous territory trying to fire them with heavy loads.

June 17, 2010, 10:35 AM	#11
margiesex Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2009 Location: Levittown, PA Posts: 210	.38 and .357 Wadcutters Lee's got some loads for the 148 grain for both .38 and .357. 148 grain wadcutter - .38 - Bullseye - 2.6 - never over2.8 = 769 - 815 fps 148 grain wadcutter - . 357 - Bullseye - 5.2 - never over 5.7 = 1354 - 1475 fps Got some for Unique as well - page 555 and 565 -in Modern Reloading: Second Edition, Richard Lee Be careful - I suspect lead all over the place as you get hotter. Just a hunch. God bless. Margiesex And remember - hug your God and your guns - 'cause he's coming for them sooner than we think!

June 17, 2010, 10:44 AM	#12
Southern Shooter Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2005 Location: central Louisiana Posts: 469	Hunters Supply 148 grain Wad cutter image The hard cast wad cutter I am using looks like this one. It is sold by Hunters Supply. NO hollow base to it. Would it have to be loaded totally flush?? Or, do you leave some of this slightly sticking out? Hunters Supply 38_148WC_WU.jpg __________________ "My plea is that we stop seeking out the storm and enjoy more fully sunlight. I am suggesting that as we go through life we accentuate the positive. I am asking that we look a little deeper for the good, that we still our voices of insult and sarcasm, that we more generously compliment and endorse virtue and effort." Gordon B. Hinckley Last edited by Southern Shooter; June 17, 2010 at 01:20 PM.

June 17, 2010, 11:15 AM	#13
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Load those roll-crimped into the crimp groove (about 1/8" sticking out of the case) unless you are loading for a gun that needs them loaded flush. Alliant used to have some impressive .357 Magnum DEWC load data using Bullseye just a few years ago, before they reworked their load book to specify only soft Speer bullets. Lemme look it up, I have a copy... 5.7 grains of Bullseye, but that's with the bullet seated all the way in the case (OAL = 1.33") It's supposed to deliver 1475 fps from a 5.6" barrel (that seems a little optimistic.) You can use more than 5.7 grains if you seat the bullet longer, but I don't know how much more. Bullseye is an amazing powder. In small doses it acts like a very fast burning powder. In large doses, it acts like a medium powder. It's my current favorite powder for hot 9mm loads with lead bullets. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

June 17, 2010, 01:53 PM	#14
Southern Shooter Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2005 Location: central Louisiana Posts: 469	Hard cast lead and barrel leading Is hard cast lead less likely to cause barrel leading at higher velocities? I am not looking for barn-burners with wad cutters. Just seeing how far they can be safely pushed. __________________ "My plea is that we stop seeking out the storm and enjoy more fully sunlight. I am suggesting that as we go through life we accentuate the positive. I am asking that we look a little deeper for the good, that we still our voices of insult and sarcasm, that we more generously compliment and endorse virtue and effort." Gordon B. Hinckley

June 18, 2010, 10:39 AM	#15
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	I and many others push hard cast lead to 1400+ fps in magnum revolvers, but there will still be people who swear you can't go past 900 - 1000 fps without serious leading. Leading has far less to do with alloy hardness, and much more to do with proper bullet sizing relative to your barrel's groove diameter. A bullet that's too small will lead like crazy no matter how hard it is. On the other hand, a bullet that's properly sized to your gun's barrel will likely have minimal, if any leading even with relatively soft alloys. I'd say you can safely push them to about 1000 fps in magnum cases without too much trouble. As has already been said earlier, the limiting factor is the reduced case capacity from the deeply seated bullet. Mike