Question for the members - Page 2

Mobuck · March 8, 2015, 07:36 AM

I own both 9mm and 357 carbines. If I were facing a band of pillagers, I'd prefer the 9mm with it's high rate of fire. If I was deer hunting, I'd chose the 357 for it's higher bullet weight and velocity.
There's no free lunch-a choice has to be made. The 9mm semi-auto is capable of killing deer @100 yards AND repelling boarders @100' with ammo on board to spare. The 357 lever action is slow to reload if the first 9-10 shots aren't enough and is out of action during the reload while still being a 100-125 yard deer rifle.

turkeestalker · March 8, 2015, 10:41 AM

There is an awesome resource available that I believe pertains to this question.
With a little creativity and understanding of ballistics and mathematics one could apply the information found in it to see just what capabilities a given cartridge had out of a given length of barrel, and it's limitations regarding distance and when it may fall below the magic energy level required to harvest a specific type of game humanely.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

BobCat45 · March 9, 2015, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Bobcat, I strongly disagree. I've had several Marlin Micro-grooved barreled rifles, two 30-30s and a .44 Magnum. With a bullet of reasonable hardeness and properly sized to the barrel, lead is on a worst case basis very minor, if at allThe 30-30 cast load were shot at or near full poewr level and did a great job on deer. Bullets were size to .310". The .44's were sized to .431, tha same size udes in my .44 handguns. For a rifle in ,357 Mag. I wouls size a bullet of about 11 or 12 BHN to 359" to maybe .360" regardless if the rifling was Ballard style or Microgroove. The only rifle I own that is chambered to the .357 Mag. is a Ruger #1 commemorative and it likes .360" bullets in it's standard type rifling.
Paul B.

Paul B. - first, I don't know how to quote with the quoted poster's name showing - sorry.

Anyway, thanks for the info! I was simply loading the cast 158 grain RNFP bought for Cowboy Action shooting, didn't measure hardness, and haven't slugged the bore on my Marlin, so you've given me a project to try.

Also - after I posted that I recalled that Marlin started using Ballard rifling in some of their .357 lever guns (and probably other calibers) at some point, so I was off-base there too, in that not all Marlin lever guns are Microgroove.

mapsjanhere · March 9, 2015, 04:48 PM

So I love my Marlin 1894C and have a lot of fun plinking in 9 mm, for actual use of a small lightweight effective 100 yards rifle I tend to go for

Someone made 6 Million of them, they're not really hard to find.

Woodslab · March 9, 2015, 05:08 PM

My henry 357.

Ballistics loads using w296 powder

158 gn hornady 722 ft lb @100 yrds
125 gn hornady bullet. 546 ft lb @250 yrds. 977 ft lb @ 100 yrds

Never hunted with it though

Snyper · March 9, 2015, 05:34 PM

Quote:

The 357 lever action is slow to reload if the first 9-10 shots aren't enough and is out of action during the reload while still being a 100-125 yard deer rifle.

There's no need to wait until it's empty to top it off.

The Verminator · March 9, 2015, 05:50 PM

Some of these guys think they all reload like the new Henry's I guess.

mxsailor803 · March 11, 2015, 01:02 PM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Ruger 77/357. Handy little rifle. I too would lean towards a .357 or bigger. Personally, I'm a .44mag kinda guy. I can't knock the .357 though. I've killed several hogs with a Ruger GP100 and its my woods gun when ever I'm just walking around. If I'm carrying my Henry .44mag though, I'm carrying my 629 since they like the same ammo.

The Verminator · March 11, 2015, 03:06 PM

Sailor, I guess you missed post #19.

Boncrayon · March 11, 2015, 07:39 PM

The early Henry and Winchesters were calibered in .357 mag. I think from the size and depth of the casing, it would exceed the 9mm (.380) in performance.

mxsailor803 · March 12, 2015, 07:16 AM

Verminator - Yea you got me on that one lol.

SHR970 · March 12, 2015, 05:26 PM

I have a Marlin Camp 9 and Marlin 1894 357 and will keep my comments to the two calibers mentioned. I would go 357.

9mm
Pros: Magazine Capacity, Reload time (if you only count changing magazines), ease of carrying ammo, faster follow up shot time. Projectile performance between pistiol and carbine with same ammo (see Cons)

Cons: Marginal to small velocity gains due to longer barrel but bullets generally perform similarly compare to when fired from pistol, blow back actions require loads in a certain power over time curve to function properly, more limited selection of bullet weights. Tweo weights of bullets were originally made specifically for carbines...147 and 158. Since the 158's were for the heavy bolt Uzi they can be problematic in closed bolt blow back semi autos. Blow back designes don't like +P ammo unless you change sprins; then they dont like some standard pressure loads.

357
Pros: Mag can be topped off while gun hot / ready to go. larger selection of bullet weights, Lighter bullets become varmint bullets (see cons), substantial velocity gains vs. hand gun velocities are achieveable, works with a much braoder velocity / power range (from mild to wild).

Cons: Bullets can behave much differently than in a handgun. slower for a full reload, carrying spare ammo either loose or loose in box, less ammo capacity, learning curve for people to not take gun from shoulder when chambering next round (I've seen this all too often) resulting in much slower follow up shots than necessary

Note: Capacity.... The OP is in Florida which to my knowledge does not restrict magazine capacity for semi-automatics. As such, he can use 15, 20, or 30 round mags if he wants. Tube mags on a lever or box on a turn bolt are what they are.

Don P · March 13, 2015, 09:35 AM

Quote:

There is an awesome resource available that I believe pertains to this question

Great site and thanks

Appreciate all the viewpoints and opinions. I only selected those calibers being I reload and have them on hand. I also reload 45 acp and 40 S&W. Thanks again and more banging of the head on the wall trying to decide what to pursue

skizzums · March 13, 2015, 11:35 PM

grab a used hi-point 9mm carbine, its a very "decent" gun, and you can pretty much sell it for what you pay for it. that'll at least let you know if a PCC is something you want to further persue. and if it is, then start looking into 9mm ARs, or berretta carbine, jr carbine, Taurus 9mm carbine(sweet gun BTW) or whatever. if it the hi-point doesn't do what you want it to do, then start thinkin about other levers. but I think everyone should have a good semi-auto PCC AND a great 357 lever-action. the are both pretty much must-haves. one for giggles and apocalyptic fantasy and one for a no-frills grab and go small hunting rifle. plus lever-actions and pure fun, beautiful, and sophisticatedly simple

aarondhgraham · March 14, 2015, 10:43 AM

Quote:

The only bolt action in a handgun caliber that I can think of is the Remington 788 in 44mag- and they are rare.

There is another very nice bolt in .357,,,
It's pricey as all get-out,,,
But a good rifle.

Ruger 77/357 Rotary Magazine.

There is also the 77/44 in .44 Magnum.

I own an H&R Handi-rifle in .357 Mag,,,
Using Remington 110 Grain JHP's,,,
2.5" bench groups at 100 yards.

I own a Hi-point Carbine in 9mm,,,
Its not scoped so the best I can do at 100 yards is about 5" groups.

I've taken armadillo with both rifles,,,
Not a very noble game animal for certain,,,
But good enough to gauge the effectiveness with.

In my not-so-humble opinion,,,
The .357 cartridge is highly superior to the 9mm cartridge.

Let's say that I could only own one centerfire rifle,,,
I think I might opt for a lever-gun in .357.

Aarond

.

MadDawg · March 14, 2015, 04:53 PM

BBTI (ballistics by the inch ) website has stats for different calibers; if you are looking for the most energy out of the round, the .357 would be my choice.

My Marlin lever action in .357 allows you to top it off as you go. The Henry lever action does not.

Choosing 9mm might be a choice especially with cheaper 9mm or if you are already using 9mm for handguns.

.44 Mag would also be a great choice; If I had to order calibers in order I'd go .44 mag, .357, 9mm, .. , .45acp.. .45acp would be dead last, especially at like 100 yards. You can just about sight in, shoot, move your head away, and watch where it hits with .45 acp at 100 yards.

March 8, 2015, 10:41 AM	#27
turkeestalker Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2015 Location: Cottleville, Missouri Posts: 1,115	There is an awesome resource available that I believe pertains to this question. With a little creativity and understanding of ballistics and mathematics one could apply the information found in it to see just what capabilities a given cartridge had out of a given length of barrel, and it's limitations regarding distance and when it may fall below the magic energy level required to harvest a specific type of game humanely. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html __________________ Vegetarian... primitive word for lousy hunter!

March 9, 2015, 04:48 PM	#29
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	So I love my Marlin 1894C and have a lot of fun plinking in 9 mm, for actual use of a small lightweight effective 100 yards rifle I tend to go for Someone made 6 Million of them, they're not really hard to find. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

March 11, 2015, 07:39 PM	#35
Boncrayon Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2008 Posts: 920	Question for the members The early Henry and Winchesters were calibered in .357 mag. I think from the size and depth of the casing, it would exceed the 9mm (.380) in performance.

March 13, 2015, 11:35 PM	#39
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	grab a used hi-point 9mm carbine, its a very "decent" gun, and you can pretty much sell it for what you pay for it. that'll at least let you know if a PCC is something you want to further persue. and if it is, then start looking into 9mm ARs, or berretta carbine, jr carbine, Taurus 9mm carbine(sweet gun BTW) or whatever. if it the hi-point doesn't do what you want it to do, then start thinkin about other levers. but I think everyone should have a good semi-auto PCC AND a great 357 lever-action. the are both pretty much must-haves. one for giggles and apocalyptic fantasy and one for a no-frills grab and go small hunting rifle. plus lever-actions and pure fun, beautiful, and sophisticatedly simple __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

March 8, 2015, 07:36 AM	#26
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	I own both 9mm and 357 carbines. If I were facing a band of pillagers, I'd prefer the 9mm with it's high rate of fire. If I was deer hunting, I'd chose the 357 for it's higher bullet weight and velocity. There's no free lunch-a choice has to be made. The 9mm semi-auto is capable of killing deer @100 yards AND repelling boarders @100' with ammo on board to spare. The 357 lever action is slow to reload if the first 9-10 shots aren't enough and is out of action during the reload while still being a 100-125 yard deer rifle.

March 9, 2015, 05:08 PM	#30
Woodslab Member Join Date: February 25, 2014 Location: eastern nc Posts: 81	My henry 357. Ballistics loads using w296 powder 158 gn hornady 722 ft lb @100 yrds 125 gn hornady bullet. 546 ft lb @250 yrds. 977 ft lb @ 100 yrds Never hunted with it though

March 9, 2015, 05:50 PM	#32
The Verminator Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2013 Location: Minnesota Posts: 254	Some of these guys think they all reload like the new Henry's I guess.

March 11, 2015, 01:02 PM	#33
mxsailor803 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2010 Location: SC Posts: 1,344	I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Ruger 77/357. Handy little rifle. I too would lean towards a .357 or bigger. Personally, I'm a .44mag kinda guy. I can't knock the .357 though. I've killed several hogs with a Ruger GP100 and its my woods gun when ever I'm just walking around. If I'm carrying my Henry .44mag though, I'm carrying my 629 since they like the same ammo.

March 11, 2015, 03:06 PM	#34
The Verminator Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2013 Location: Minnesota Posts: 254	Sailor, I guess you missed post #19.

March 12, 2015, 07:16 AM	#36
mxsailor803 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2010 Location: SC Posts: 1,344	Verminator - Yea you got me on that one lol.

March 12, 2015, 05:26 PM	#37
SHR970 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 1,427	I have a Marlin Camp 9 and Marlin 1894 357 and will keep my comments to the two calibers mentioned. I would go 357. 9mm Pros: Magazine Capacity, Reload time (if you only count changing magazines), ease of carrying ammo, faster follow up shot time. Projectile performance between pistiol and carbine with same ammo (see Cons) Cons: Marginal to small velocity gains due to longer barrel but bullets generally perform similarly compare to when fired from pistol, blow back actions require loads in a certain power over time curve to function properly, more limited selection of bullet weights. Tweo weights of bullets were originally made specifically for carbines...147 and 158. Since the 158's were for the heavy bolt Uzi they can be problematic in closed bolt blow back semi autos. Blow back designes don't like +P ammo unless you change sprins; then they dont like some standard pressure loads. 357 Pros: Mag can be topped off while gun hot / ready to go. larger selection of bullet weights, Lighter bullets become varmint bullets (see cons), substantial velocity gains vs. hand gun velocities are achieveable, works with a much braoder velocity / power range (from mild to wild). Cons: Bullets can behave much differently than in a handgun. slower for a full reload, carrying spare ammo either loose or loose in box, less ammo capacity, learning curve for people to not take gun from shoulder when chambering next round (I've seen this all too often) resulting in much slower follow up shots than necessary Note: Capacity.... The OP is in Florida which to my knowledge does not restrict magazine capacity for semi-automatics. As such, he can use 15, 20, or 30 round mags if he wants. Tube mags on a lever or box on a turn bolt are what they are.

March 14, 2015, 04:53 PM	#41
MadDawg Member Join Date: December 27, 2014 Posts: 51	BBTI (ballistics by the inch ) website has stats for different calibers; if you are looking for the most energy out of the round, the .357 would be my choice. My Marlin lever action in .357 allows you to top it off as you go. The Henry lever action does not. Choosing 9mm might be a choice especially with cheaper 9mm or if you are already using 9mm for handguns. .44 Mag would also be a great choice; If I had to order calibers in order I'd go .44 mag, .357, 9mm, .. , .45acp.. .45acp would be dead last, especially at like 100 yards. You can just about sight in, shoot, move your head away, and watch where it hits with .45 acp at 100 yards.