An Opportunity of a Lifetime or Two weeks of Worrying

Warren Kent · December 5, 2002, 09:56 AM

I posted this thread on a trap shooting board that I have frequented for the last three years and got more no's than yes's.
What is the sentiment here?

An Opportunity of a Lifetime or Two weeks of Worrying

My youngest son (almost 21) has been invited to Israel over his Christmas break from college. His childhood and college buddy is a videographer, who has a grant to make a documentary. My son has been a member of his film crew for several small projects and was asked to help, mainly as his soundman but as its only a two man crew he should mostly be his gopher. His mother and I feel this would be a great experience for him and not just a trip to pick up girls like all his previous explorations. The political climate may not be the best for travel to that destination in our current times but I don’t feel its my place to tell him no. Has anyone out there made this trip and do you have any reservations about going at this time?

bamf · December 5, 2002, 04:05 PM

This isn't really the most appropriate forum for this...

But regardless, not just NO but HELL NO. While I agree going to Israel would be fascinating but the climate is extremely dangerous, random acts of violence is rampant with suicide bombers. People I know who have family in Israel, are being told by their own family not to come.

You can't be safe anywhere, just listen to international news and you'll hear all about shopping malls, ice cream palors that have been attacke. Any public places can potentially be attacked by these bombers even in communties that have no history of bombing. Plus with all the crap going on with Iraq, the first place those scuds are going is Israel.

I'm not one to be overtly cautious, I went to Egypt this last summer but it's different there are specific areas to avoid but Israel is an entirely different story.

While he is 21, I would strongely warm him against this, I'm 23 and really strong warning from my dad or mom (with good reason) would make me at least reconsider what I'm doing.

Dave McC · December 5, 2002, 05:22 PM

We've kin in Tel Aviv. They advise waiting...

Good luck and I'll say a prayer....

Al Thompson · December 5, 2002, 08:17 PM

It's one thing to wear the green and be sent to a war zone, it's another to go there for an interesting trip. I'd vote no on this one.

Moving this thread to General for broader exposure.

Gila Jorge · December 5, 2002, 08:25 PM

Yeah, my wife sees this promoter for Israeli tourism on one of the tv stations and gets all excited about going to Israel....but the only way I want to see it is over Jesus' shoulder after the rapture and the wedding feast. AS things are now...no way!

Christopher II · December 5, 2002, 08:26 PM

Yes, absolutely. I would never pass up a chance to go on a trip like this. The percieved danger of being caught in a bombing or whatever is really minimal. Certainly less than driving on a public highway.

- Chris

twoblink · December 6, 2002, 12:37 AM

The dangers of Israel for a trip of a lifetime is well worth it. I cross the streets of Taiwan everyday, and THAT is serious warfare! I'd go.

Would I let my son go? Probably, with an AK in one hand, and an MP5 in the other..

Be safe!

labgrade · December 6, 2002, 02:47 AM

As with any other country - depends on where you are. Certain cities are more risk prone, shall we say.

Got a bud who got back about two weeks ago. Took his wife & two boys. Had a great trip.

Look at it this way. If you let him go & something bad happens, you'll never forgive yourself. If you don't let him go & nothing bad happens, he'll never forgive you.

Welcome to being a Dad.

Let us know, huh?

chaim · December 6, 2002, 04:51 AM

I'll start this by saying that if all goes as planned (what ever does though) I plan to be in Israel all of next summer studying in Yeshiva. I'll probably be in one of the higher risk areas as well. But then I am an Orthodox Jew so I have religious reasons for being there.

In your son's case I guess there are pros and cons.

We all know the cons, terrorism, though I think most people overestimate the odds of something happening to them. We see the big attacks on the news constantly and overestimate the danger. We don't see millions of people living their day to day lives. The murder bombings and shootings are horrible, nearly a thousand have been killed in the attacks, thousands have been injured or effected (psychological trauma from witnessing the carnage or the loss of family members and friends). However, the chances of it effecting any particular visitor are virtually zero, there are several million people living there. I don't want to minimize the situation, it is a national tragedy. Many people have been directly effected- someone they know has been killed. Many more live near an attack, many make living adjustments (bus travel there is very common and the busses are a major target so people take more expensive alternatives). Just remember that this is a country where life goes on, the chances of any individual being killed or injured are low, and not living there for a long period of time the psychological trauma of losing friends or acquaintences or seeing an attack just aren't likely to effect your son.

The pros, well the current terrorism war being waged against Israel has greatly hurt Israeli tourism (an incredibly important part of Israel's economy). Right now there are deals on airfare, hotels and other touristy stuff that can't be beat. Also, the people there recognize the importance of foreign visitors, and added to that is the recognition that people going there now is a kind of political statement (especially appreciated when the visitor isn't Jewish) so the goodwill and appreciation he'd receive now would be immeasurable.

Then there are the usual pros:
-Israel is holy ground to the three major Western religions. The spiritual aspects of the trip would be immense.
-It is a beautiful country.
-It is a great place for history buffs
-It has great world class resorts and hotels

Kaboom · December 6, 2002, 07:22 AM

Whenever you get a chance to travel to another part of the world Take It. The only way to get the store bought, media produced prejudices out of your system is to see it first hand. After you see a place for a while it seems to become appairant that polititions and the small vocal whiney twits are the representation of a country. The , work every day and take care of business, people are a whole nother critter. Somewhere it was written that for every so many thousand population there had to be a Jesse Jackson and a Pat Buchanan.

December 5, 2002, 09:56 AM	#1
Warren Kent Junior Member Join Date: November 19, 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 11	An Opportunity of a Lifetime or Two weeks of Worrying I posted this thread on a trap shooting board that I have frequented for the last three years and got more no's than yes's. What is the sentiment here? An Opportunity of a Lifetime or Two weeks of Worrying My youngest son (almost 21) has been invited to Israel over his Christmas break from college. His childhood and college buddy is a videographer, who has a grant to make a documentary. My son has been a member of his film crew for several small projects and was asked to help, mainly as his soundman but as its only a two man crew he should mostly be his gopher. His mother and I feel this would be a great experience for him and not just a trip to pick up girls like all his previous explorations. The political climate may not be the best for travel to that destination in our current times but I don’t feel its my place to tell him no. Has anyone out there made this trip and do you have any reservations about going at this time? __________________ "I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crises. The great point is to bring them the real facts." Abraham Lincoln

December 5, 2002, 08:17 PM	#4
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	It's one thing to wear the green and be sent to a war zone, it's another to go there for an interesting trip. I'd vote no on this one. Moving this thread to General for broader exposure. __________________ http://www.scfirearms.org/

December 5, 2002, 08:26 PM	#6
Christopher II Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Germantown, MD Posts: 2,349	Yes, absolutely. I would never pass up a chance to go on a trip like this. The percieved danger of being caught in a bombing or whatever is really minimal. Certainly less than driving on a public highway. - Chris __________________ "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him." – Robert Heinlein "Contrary to popular belief, your vote does not matter, and you cannot make a difference." - Bob Murphy, "Picking Neither of Two Evils" My PGP Public Key

December 6, 2002, 12:37 AM	#7
twoblink Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 1999 Location: Taipei, Taiwan Posts: 2,025	The dangers of Israel for a trip of a lifetime is well worth it. I cross the streets of Taiwan everyday, and THAT is serious warfare! I'd go. Would I let my son go? Probably, with an AK in one hand, and an MP5 in the other.. Be safe! __________________ "An unarmed society is one that's ripe for tyranny and oppression."

December 5, 2002, 04:05 PM	#2
bamf Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: Davis, CA US Posts: 268	This isn't really the most appropriate forum for this... But regardless, not just NO but HELL NO. While I agree going to Israel would be fascinating but the climate is extremely dangerous, random acts of violence is rampant with suicide bombers. People I know who have family in Israel, are being told by their own family not to come. You can't be safe anywhere, just listen to international news and you'll hear all about shopping malls, ice cream palors that have been attacke. Any public places can potentially be attacked by these bombers even in communties that have no history of bombing. Plus with all the crap going on with Iraq, the first place those scuds are going is Israel. I'm not one to be overtly cautious, I went to Egypt this last summer but it's different there are specific areas to avoid but Israel is an entirely different story. While he is 21, I would strongely warm him against this, I'm 23 and really strong warning from my dad or mom (with good reason) would make me at least reconsider what I'm doing.

December 5, 2002, 05:22 PM	#3
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	We've kin in Tel Aviv. They advise waiting... Good luck and I'll say a prayer....

December 5, 2002, 08:25 PM	#5
Gila Jorge Member Join Date: November 21, 2002 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 91	Yeah, my wife sees this promoter for Israeli tourism on one of the tv stations and gets all excited about going to Israel....but the only way I want to see it is over Jesus' shoulder after the rapture and the wedding feast. AS things are now...no way!

December 6, 2002, 02:47 AM	#8
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	As with any other country - depends on where you are. Certain cities are more risk prone, shall we say. Got a bud who got back about two weeks ago. Took his wife & two boys. Had a great trip. Look at it this way. If you let him go & something bad happens, you'll never forgive yourself. If you don't let him go & nothing bad happens, he'll never forgive you. Welcome to being a Dad. Let us know, huh?

December 6, 2002, 04:51 AM	#9
chaim Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,095	I'll start this by saying that if all goes as planned (what ever does though) I plan to be in Israel all of next summer studying in Yeshiva. I'll probably be in one of the higher risk areas as well. But then I am an Orthodox Jew so I have religious reasons for being there. In your son's case I guess there are pros and cons. We all know the cons, terrorism, though I think most people overestimate the odds of something happening to them. We see the big attacks on the news constantly and overestimate the danger. We don't see millions of people living their day to day lives. The murder bombings and shootings are horrible, nearly a thousand have been killed in the attacks, thousands have been injured or effected (psychological trauma from witnessing the carnage or the loss of family members and friends). However, the chances of it effecting any particular visitor are virtually zero, there are several million people living there. I don't want to minimize the situation, it is a national tragedy. Many people have been directly effected- someone they know has been killed. Many more live near an attack, many make living adjustments (bus travel there is very common and the busses are a major target so people take more expensive alternatives). Just remember that this is a country where life goes on, the chances of any individual being killed or injured are low, and not living there for a long period of time the psychological trauma of losing friends or acquaintences or seeing an attack just aren't likely to effect your son. The pros, well the current terrorism war being waged against Israel has greatly hurt Israeli tourism (an incredibly important part of Israel's economy). Right now there are deals on airfare, hotels and other touristy stuff that can't be beat. Also, the people there recognize the importance of foreign visitors, and added to that is the recognition that people going there now is a kind of political statement (especially appreciated when the visitor isn't Jewish) so the goodwill and appreciation he'd receive now would be immeasurable. Then there are the usual pros: -Israel is holy ground to the three major Western religions. The spiritual aspects of the trip would be immense. -It is a beautiful country. -It is a great place for history buffs -It has great world class resorts and hotels

December 6, 2002, 07:22 AM	#10
Kaboom Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2000 Location: North Mo. Posts: 640	Whenever you get a chance to travel to another part of the world Take It. The only way to get the store bought, media produced prejudices out of your system is to see it first hand. After you see a place for a while it seems to become appairant that polititions and the small vocal whiney twits are the representation of a country. The , work every day and take care of business, people are a whole nother critter. Somewhere it was written that for every so many thousand population there had to be a Jesse Jackson and a Pat Buchanan.