Breech Plug Removal

smellosmoke · October 13, 2009, 08:15 PM

Does anyone know how (or even IF) to remove the breech plug from an Investarm Hawken 50 cal flintlock (Cabelas kit)? The kit instructions show the plug as an individual part, but the seam match to the barrel is almost invisible. Threaded? Then it's REAL tight. Pressed? Lord, I hope not. Or maybe it's time to give up smoking crack...

mykeal · October 13, 2009, 08:26 PM

It's threaded and requires a breech plug removal tool, a good gunsmith's vise and a lot of torque. It is strongly recommended that it not be attempted. It will be very difficult to replace it correctly.

B.L.E. · October 13, 2009, 08:27 PM

Breech plugs in traditional muzzleloaders were not intended to be routinely removed. A new one has to be hand fitted to line up with the flats of the barrel and then the final filing is done on the breech plug to match the barrel.
They are threaded into the barrel and removing them usually requires a strong vise and a big wrench and sometimes heat from a torch.

There is no need to remove it for routine cleaning.

smellosmoke · October 13, 2009, 08:50 PM

Thank you all,

Very good information. I am a regular cartridge plinker, but a newbie to flintlocks. I have gotten the Hawken to ignite the pan and a blank charge, but was hesitant to load a ball. As an RO at my local range, I was afraid to have my shift cut short and be sent home with a loaded muzzleloader. So I have a ball puller on the way. Thanks again.

B.L.E. · October 13, 2009, 08:59 PM

A ball puller is good to have because one of these days, you will dry load the gun. All it takes is someone talking to you while you are loading.
They also make CO2 powered ball dischargers to blow out balls that have been dry loaded.
Also, with enough patience, you can slowly trickle enough FFFFg though the touchhole to shoot the ball out.

smellosmoke · October 13, 2009, 09:09 PM

I was gonna quit and go to bed...but you are SO right B.L.E. When you're doing black powder stuff, the LAST thing you want is someone yammerin' at you...Thanks again!

Pahoo · October 14, 2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

B.L.E. A ball puller is good to have because one of these days, you will dry load the gun. All it takes is someone talking to you while you are loading.

The term is "Dry-Balling" and during our classes we get many questions. I do most of the loading for the students especially on large classes. At times, I have to load two different rifles and have learned the hard way, not to reply to questions right off. I wait till I complete what I'm doiing, insert my range-rod and answer the question. A ball puller or screw jag is a must as well as a patch jag. Very inexpensive and you will get a lot of use out of it. I still do !!

As far as removing the breech plug, I too would suggest that you shy away from doing it. Would most definitely be threaded and have only had to do one, with the proper tools and it still showed. Might want to ask yourself if it really needs to be done? However, it's your rifle, your reason and your call.

Be Safe !!!

smellosmoke · October 14, 2009, 05:13 PM

No, no. I am convinced, I will not attempt to remove the plug from this rifle. Anyway, I have a ball and patch puller on the way. I was just curious---I have another (cheaper) muzzleloader with a breech plug that the manufacturer recommends removing to clean. However, it is cap-ignited.

And, yeah, I seem to attract a lot of talkers right at the point I am trying to load. Once it distraced me enough to dry-load or -ball a pistol. Fortunately, an experienced friend with me recommended I remove the nipple and try to get as much powder as I could in the hole behind the ball. It worked. Two lessons learned, 1) this trick and 2) either suspend the conversation until loading is done, or stop and finish the conversation, then resume.

Learning alot from you folks too. Thanks again!

n5lyc · October 14, 2009, 06:06 PM

MOST inlines suggest removing the plug for cleaning, but no traditional ones that i am aware of.
The breech plugs on traditional muzzle loaders are too finely aligned with the flats and the drum or snail threads through both the barrel and the breech plug.
in inlines it just screws in and seats where it is supposed to.
end of story.

hope it helps.
Ian

smellosmoke · October 15, 2009, 05:24 PM

Thanks. I'm straight now.

ts086 · January 23, 2011, 02:47 AM

I'm a member of the N-SSA and we shoot Civil War Competitive shooting. In an average year we run about 800 round a year through our muskets and it is a yearly thing to pull the breach and polish it. Polishing it cuts down on the buildup you can get on a breach plug making a difference in performance. They make a breech scraper and you should have one of those too, you'd be surprised all the stuff that can build up on that plug. Getting a clean patch dose not mean there is not a build up on the plug. Take a mini Mag light and see if you can see a shinny plug at the bottom of the barrel, chances are you will not. There is nothing scary about pulling the breech when you have the proper wrench. The barrel maker would not go to all that expense to put it there if it wasn't a good thing to have.

For more info visit www.n-ssa.org

Tom

arcticap · January 23, 2011, 06:44 AM

In addition to breech plug scrapers, there are wire brushes that can be used to scour the inside of dirty breech plugs.

Here's what the Investarms manual has to say regarding cleaning and breech plug removal:

http://www.investarm.it/media/pdf/ma...ncarica_uk.pdf

Quote:

Page 18:

Of course, the muzzle loading firearm can be cleaned
without any dissassembly but care should be taken
to prevent water and excessive solvents from entering
the stock or lock mechanism.

Page 17:

PROJECTILE NOT SEATED AGAINST THE CHARGE: if,
due to powder fouling or other circumstances, a ball
becomes lodged part way down barrel, then the
rifle must be disassembled and the charge removed.
With the proper tools, the breech plug can be
removed from the barrel. Consult a gunsmith for
such work.

Page 20:

- REPAIRS OF INVESTARM MUZZLE LOADING FIREARMS
MUST BE DONE ONLY BY A INVESTARM AUTHORIZED
SERVICE CENTER.

October 13, 2009, 08:15 PM	#1
smellosmoke Junior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Posts: 5	Breech Plug Removal Does anyone know how (or even IF) to remove the breech plug from an Investarm Hawken 50 cal flintlock (Cabelas kit)? The kit instructions show the plug as an individual part, but the seam match to the barrel is almost invisible. Threaded? Then it's REAL tight. Pressed? Lord, I hope not. Or maybe it's time to give up smoking crack...

October 13, 2009, 08:50 PM	#4
smellosmoke Junior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Posts: 5	Breech Plug Removal Thank you all, Very good information. I am a regular cartridge plinker, but a newbie to flintlocks. I have gotten the Hawken to ignite the pan and a blank charge, but was hesitant to load a ball. As an RO at my local range, I was afraid to have my shift cut short and be sent home with a loaded muzzleloader. So I have a ball puller on the way. Thanks again.

October 13, 2009, 09:09 PM	#6
smellosmoke Junior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Posts: 5	Breech Plug Removal I was gonna quit and go to bed...but you are SO right B.L.E. When you're doing black powder stuff, the LAST thing you want is someone yammerin' at you...Thanks again!

October 14, 2009, 05:13 PM	#8
smellosmoke Junior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Posts: 5	Breech Plug Removal No, no. I am convinced, I will not attempt to remove the plug from this rifle. Anyway, I have a ball and patch puller on the way. I was just curious---I have another (cheaper) muzzleloader with a breech plug that the manufacturer recommends removing to clean. However, it is cap-ignited. And, yeah, I seem to attract a lot of talkers right at the point I am trying to load. Once it distraced me enough to dry-load or -ball a pistol. Fortunately, an experienced friend with me recommended I remove the nipple and try to get as much powder as I could in the hole behind the ball. It worked. Two lessons learned, 1) this trick and 2) either suspend the conversation until loading is done, or stop and finish the conversation, then resume. Learning alot from you folks too. Thanks again!

October 14, 2009, 06:06 PM	#9
n5lyc Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2009 Posts: 180	plug removal. MOST inlines suggest removing the plug for cleaning, but no traditional ones that i am aware of. The breech plugs on traditional muzzle loaders are too finely aligned with the flats and the drum or snail threads through both the barrel and the breech plug. in inlines it just screws in and seats where it is supposed to. end of story. hope it helps. Ian

October 13, 2009, 08:26 PM	#2
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	It's threaded and requires a breech plug removal tool, a good gunsmith's vise and a lot of torque. It is strongly recommended that it not be attempted. It will be very difficult to replace it correctly.

October 13, 2009, 08:27 PM	#3
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	Breech plugs in traditional muzzleloaders were not intended to be routinely removed. A new one has to be hand fitted to line up with the flats of the barrel and then the final filing is done on the breech plug to match the barrel. They are threaded into the barrel and removing them usually requires a strong vise and a big wrench and sometimes heat from a torch. There is no need to remove it for routine cleaning.

October 13, 2009, 08:59 PM	#5
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	A ball puller is good to have because one of these days, you will dry load the gun. All it takes is someone talking to you while you are loading. They also make CO2 powered ball dischargers to blow out balls that have been dry loaded. Also, with enough patience, you can slowly trickle enough FFFFg though the touchhole to shoot the ball out.

October 15, 2009, 05:24 PM	#10
smellosmoke Junior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Posts: 5	plug removal Thanks. I'm straight now.

January 23, 2011, 02:47 AM	#11
ts086 Junior Member Join Date: January 23, 2011 Posts: 1	Breech Plugs I'm a member of the N-SSA and we shoot Civil War Competitive shooting. In an average year we run about 800 round a year through our muskets and it is a yearly thing to pull the breach and polish it. Polishing it cuts down on the buildup you can get on a breach plug making a difference in performance. They make a breech scraper and you should have one of those too, you'd be surprised all the stuff that can build up on that plug. Getting a clean patch dose not mean there is not a build up on the plug. Take a mini Mag light and see if you can see a shinny plug at the bottom of the barrel, chances are you will not. There is nothing scary about pulling the breech when you have the proper wrench. The barrel maker would not go to all that expense to put it there if it wasn't a good thing to have. For more info visit www.n-ssa.org Tom Last edited by ts086; January 23, 2011 at 02:48 AM. Reason: added link