Airsoft as a training tool?

LOLERCOASTER · July 5, 2012, 04:34 PM

I frequently airsoft casualy, and have heard about it being used by some police departments as a training tool. Is this true?

aarondhgraham · July 5, 2012, 04:56 PM

I haven't found one cop or agency that uses airsoft as a serious training aid.

What I have found is a few people who use them in retention drills or close quarters combat training,,,
Not because of the airsoft pistols having any special virtue on their own,,,
They are simply cheaper than most rubber or aluminum pieces.

Now having said that there is an Airsoft pistol by my TV chair,,,
And a pellet trap across the room that I shoot into,,,
But again I'm not sure it's training per se,,,
It's just fun to shoot the little thing.

Aarond

.

ripnbst · July 5, 2012, 05:05 PM

Paint pistols are more often used than airsoft in training as hits are clearly visible.

An officer I know just last month was shot three times in training. Paint pistols though.

Glenn E. Meyer · July 5, 2012, 06:21 PM

If you search on the topic, you will find much usage of airsoft guns in civilian and police training.

For example, go to www.policeone.com and enter airsoft into their search.

It is used as a serious aid.

AmericanWolverine · July 5, 2012, 06:50 PM

Airsoft guns can be safely used for field stripping and cleaning practice. Magazine changes. Drawing and holstering. Room clearing. Several of KWA's GBBs are PTP or Police Training Pistols and with the exception of a couple parts are completely made out of quality aluminum.

MLeake · July 6, 2012, 05:18 PM

The NATO anti-terrorism training course at Souda Bay used Simunitions for room clearing training, several years back. Not sure if they still do.

Slotback · July 6, 2012, 06:26 PM

It can be a handy training tool.

ZippZ · July 9, 2012, 07:06 PM

I just started using the KWA PTP pistols for beginners handgun safety course instruction and demonstrations, and to run through competition course of fires. Seems to be working well and my Soldiers like using them. The KWA PTP is very realistic with the same size, functioning, weight, trigger pull and recoil of an M9. I buy them used for around $100 on ebay. http://kwausa.com/products/ptp/. I also attached a cheap laser sight to use for instruction: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/342...le-mount-black

It's great when giving a course when firearm ranges aren't available, like at night.

AmericanWolverine · July 9, 2012, 09:04 PM

Recoil isn't any where near that of the real thing.

r_magill · July 9, 2012, 10:27 PM

As someone in Law Enforcement, I can definitively tell you that they are used pretty effectively as a training tool.

gorin · July 10, 2012, 04:27 AM

Yes, they are used by LEO in training. Our department has about a dozen of the KWA Glocks, some AR's too.
Building searches, running scenarios, just plain fun.
Also, a group visit to the field will show you how others will react under stress - it is the best tool to figure who you want as your backup I've found.

AmericanWolverine · July 10, 2012, 05:07 AM

You guys do realize that KWA has gas blow back M4 Carbines out now.

ZippZ · July 11, 2012, 05:28 PM

Error on my part, the KWA PTP has realistic recoil, about as realistic as you can get short of the real thing.

I've been looking at the KWA LM4 PTR too, but is kinda expensive at $379+$50 for extra mags.

Steviewonder1 · July 11, 2012, 06:26 PM

I used one (a clone of a popular tupperwear pistol) in a SI class last year along with complete face mask, neck wrap and long sleeve shirt. Fits my standard pistol holster and the spare mags fit my mag holders. The only difference is the Air-Soft mags hold 26-28 BB's plus the gas to power them. I learned a lot about armed encounters as you start with a Duel between you and the Perp. Then on to more solutions on how to avoid getting shot, but done in the Air Soft Environment. A very neat way to train just short of real bullets or Simunitions and lots cheaper.

AmericanWolverine · July 11, 2012, 08:02 PM

@ Steviewonder1

KWA came back out a couple of models based on the 4th generation. 17 and 18C. KWA calls this line ATP. The appearance was changed slightly but all accessories that fit real Glocks will fit the ATP line.

With airsoft guns you can also safely practice shooting right in your living room.

DasGuy · July 12, 2012, 02:15 PM

Having a gas blow back airsoft gun allows me to train a lot more than I could without it. Is it a perfect simulation for and can it completely replace actual range time? No, but it's pretty dang close.

**JohnKSa** · July 14, 2012, 10:12 PM

Quote:

The NATO anti-terrorism training course at Souda Bay used Simunitions...

Simunitions are used a lot for training at the higher levels, however simunitions are very different from airsoft.

http://simunition.com/en/products/fx_marking_cartridges

LOLERCOASTER · July 14, 2012, 11:16 PM

Simmunitions are basicaly low powered cartridges that propell paint balls sized to the said weapons caliber.

Chowder · July 16, 2012, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Now having said that there is an Airsoft pistol by my TV chair,,,
And a pellet trap across the room that I shoot into,,,
But again I'm not sure it's training per se,,,
It's just fun to shoot the little thing.

I do the same thing but at my computer desk. I can get a lot of trigger time when studying. And the crappy air soft trigger makes me appreciated my S&W that much more when I go to the range haha.

r_magill · July 16, 2012, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Simunitions are used a lot for training at the higher levels,

While this may be true in some instances, in my experience simunitions are used at places with larger training budgets and airsoft is used at places with smaller training budgets.

When the agency I work at was deciding if it should use simunitions or airsoft, the deciding factor was cost. We can train twice, maybe even three times, as much with airsoft than with simunitions. In a strapped economy, the cheaper but relatively equally effective (for our purposes) option is king.

**Frank Ettin** · July 16, 2012, 02:11 PM

Simunitions are an expensive proposition. I'm aware of at least one very able instructor using Airsoft for Force-on-Force classes very effectively.

My group uses quality Airsoft pistols in our Basic Handgun class. They shoot Airsoft in the classroom before live fire on the range. It's proven to be very helpful.

LOLERCOASTER · July 16, 2012, 04:58 PM

Which airsoft pistol are you using, chowder? With all the KWA guns I've handled, their triggers have been quite smooth. Maybe a little tough at the end of the pull, but smooth.

AmericanWolverine · July 16, 2012, 07:36 PM

Plus KWA has an actual warranty and great CS.

**Frank Ettin** · July 16, 2012, 07:50 PM

Several of the Airsoft pistols we use in our classes are KWA, and they seem to be very nicely made.

LOLERCOASTER · July 16, 2012, 07:52 PM

Yeah. I'd like to add their M11 or MP7 to my airsoft collection.

July 5, 2012, 04:34 PM	#1
LOLERCOASTER Member Join Date: July 3, 2012 Posts: 33	Airsoft as a training tool? I frequently airsoft casualy, and have heard about it being used by some police departments as a training tool. Is this true?

July 5, 2012, 04:56 PM	#2
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	I've asked quite a few cops that very question,,, I haven't found one cop or agency that uses airsoft as a serious training aid. What I have found is a few people who use them in retention drills or close quarters combat training,,, Not because of the airsoft pistols having any special virtue on their own,,, They are simply cheaper than most rubber or aluminum pieces. Now having said that there is an Airsoft pistol by my TV chair,,, And a pellet trap across the room that I shoot into,,, But again I'm not sure it's training per se,,, It's just fun to shoot the little thing. Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

July 5, 2012, 06:21 PM	#4
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	If you search on the topic, you will find much usage of airsoft guns in civilian and police training. For example, go to www.policeone.com and enter airsoft into their search. It is used as a serious aid. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

July 5, 2012, 06:50 PM	#5
AmericanWolverine Junior member Join Date: July 5, 2012 Posts: 18	Glenn is right Airsoft guns can be safely used for field stripping and cleaning practice. Magazine changes. Drawing and holstering. Room clearing. Several of KWA's GBBs are PTP or Police Training Pistols and with the exception of a couple parts are completely made out of quality aluminum.

July 16, 2012, 02:11 PM	#21
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	Simunitions are an expensive proposition. I'm aware of at least one very able instructor using Airsoft for Force-on-Force classes very effectively. My group uses quality Airsoft pistols in our Basic Handgun class. They shoot Airsoft in the classroom before live fire on the range. It's proven to be very helpful. __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

July 5, 2012, 05:05 PM	#3
ripnbst Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2010 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 1,552	Paint pistols are more often used than airsoft in training as hits are clearly visible. An officer I know just last month was shot three times in training. Paint pistols though.

July 6, 2012, 05:18 PM	#6
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	The NATO anti-terrorism training course at Souda Bay used Simunitions for room clearing training, several years back. Not sure if they still do.

July 6, 2012, 06:26 PM	#7
Slotback Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2010 Posts: 162	It can be a handy training tool.

July 9, 2012, 07:06 PM	#8
ZippZ Member Join Date: November 28, 2005 Posts: 20	I just started using the KWA PTP pistols for beginners handgun safety course instruction and demonstrations, and to run through competition course of fires. Seems to be working well and my Soldiers like using them. The KWA PTP is very realistic with the same size, functioning, weight, trigger pull and recoil of an M9. I buy them used for around $100 on ebay. http://kwausa.com/products/ptp/. I also attached a cheap laser sight to use for instruction: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/342...le-mount-black It's great when giving a course when firearm ranges aren't available, like at night.

July 9, 2012, 09:04 PM	#9
AmericanWolverine Junior member Join Date: July 5, 2012 Posts: 18	Recoil isn't any where near that of the real thing.

July 9, 2012, 10:27 PM	#10
r_magill Member Join Date: February 21, 2010 Location: Near Allentown, PA Posts: 43	As someone in Law Enforcement, I can definitively tell you that they are used pretty effectively as a training tool.

July 10, 2012, 04:27 AM	#11
gorin Member Join Date: May 22, 2009 Posts: 33	Yes, they are used by LEO in training. Our department has about a dozen of the KWA Glocks, some AR's too. Building searches, running scenarios, just plain fun. Also, a group visit to the field will show you how others will react under stress - it is the best tool to figure who you want as your backup I've found.

July 10, 2012, 05:07 AM	#12
AmericanWolverine Junior member Join Date: July 5, 2012 Posts: 18	You guys do realize that KWA has gas blow back M4 Carbines out now.

July 11, 2012, 05:28 PM	#13
ZippZ Member Join Date: November 28, 2005 Posts: 20	Error on my part, the KWA PTP has realistic recoil, about as realistic as you can get short of the real thing. I've been looking at the KWA LM4 PTR too, but is kinda expensive at $379+$50 for extra mags.

July 11, 2012, 06:26 PM	#14
Steviewonder1 Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2009 Location: John's Creek, Georgia Posts: 328	I used one (a clone of a popular tupperwear pistol) in a SI class last year along with complete face mask, neck wrap and long sleeve shirt. Fits my standard pistol holster and the spare mags fit my mag holders. The only difference is the Air-Soft mags hold 26-28 BB's plus the gas to power them. I learned a lot about armed encounters as you start with a Duel between you and the Perp. Then on to more solutions on how to avoid getting shot, but done in the Air Soft Environment. A very neat way to train just short of real bullets or Simunitions and lots cheaper.

July 11, 2012, 08:02 PM	#15
AmericanWolverine Junior member Join Date: July 5, 2012 Posts: 18	@ Steviewonder1 KWA came back out a couple of models based on the 4th generation. 17 and 18C. KWA calls this line ATP. The appearance was changed slightly but all accessories that fit real Glocks will fit the ATP line. With airsoft guns you can also safely practice shooting right in your living room.

July 12, 2012, 02:15 PM	#16
DasGuy Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2011 Posts: 318	Having a gas blow back airsoft gun allows me to train a lot more than I could without it. Is it a perfect simulation for and can it completely replace actual range time? No, but it's pretty dang close.

July 14, 2012, 11:16 PM	#18
LOLERCOASTER Member Join Date: July 3, 2012 Posts: 33	Simmunitions are basicaly low powered cartridges that propell paint balls sized to the said weapons caliber.

July 16, 2012, 04:58 PM	#22
LOLERCOASTER Member Join Date: July 3, 2012 Posts: 33	Which airsoft pistol are you using, chowder? With all the KWA guns I've handled, their triggers have been quite smooth. Maybe a little tough at the end of the pull, but smooth.

July 16, 2012, 07:36 PM	#23
AmericanWolverine Junior member Join Date: July 5, 2012 Posts: 18	Plus KWA has an actual warranty and great CS.

July 16, 2012, 07:50 PM	#24
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	Several of the Airsoft pistols we use in our classes are KWA, and they seem to be very nicely made. __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

July 16, 2012, 07:52 PM	#25
LOLERCOASTER Member Join Date: July 3, 2012 Posts: 33	Yeah. I'd like to add their M11 or MP7 to my airsoft collection.

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