the .457 RB in 1858 Uberti

Gunruner · June 20, 2008, 06:47 PM

I have one of the newer 1858 Uberti's and have been using .454 RB with great success. But I was wondering if I might try the .457 RB and if it would bring the group up a little as the .454 hits approx 4" low and dead center with 30gr FFF Goex. Not really sure if the tiny bit of additional lead weight will be much anyway? The .454 RB's are a tight fit and seem to load with a little difficulty. I know 3 thousands isn't much but are they tougher to ram? Anyone do a test for accuracy and different POI between the .454 and .457 Ball's in a particular .44 repro? Just deciding on which way to go to minimize expenses, buying one size vs buying 2 different size RB. Any info appreciated......Mike

Hawg · June 20, 2008, 06:56 PM

They'll be a little harder to load but I doubt you'll see any improvement. The newer guns have tall sights so you can file them down once you find your favorite load. Older guns shoot high.

Tom2 · June 20, 2008, 07:50 PM

Ditto. If you compare the Uberti front sight, it is much taller than on an original Rem. Presumably to allow filing it down. Well at least it is centered. Probably that front sight base is dovetailed into the barrel like that to allow drifting it for windage but I think it would look awful sticking out off center. The originals don't have that dovetail on the front sight. Or the one on the ramrod retainer. Don't know what that one is on there for, wish I knew but must be something like easier fitting of the parts or what?

Hawg · June 20, 2008, 09:03 PM

The old model Remingtons had dovetailed front sights and a dovetailed retainer. Front sight was a silver cone tho. You also didn't have to lower the lever to remove the cylinder. I had one made in 1862.

Oquirrh · June 20, 2008, 11:52 PM

in my Pietta Remington. It's a little more difficult to ram the 457 ball, but no big deal. Doesn't seem to affect elevation. I haven't had enough time to work on loads, so I couldn't make a call on accuracy--but I was making one big hole at 50 feet -- about four inches low--with the .457 balls. I also have a Ruger OA so I had the bigger balls around.

I'm going to burn a bunch of powder thru my Rem tomorrow maybe I'll learn something.

IMVHO, I think you'd be ok with just the .457 balls for the Remington.

Smokin_Gun · June 21, 2008, 02:24 AM

Meassure your chambers, dial calipers will work. Say your Pietta say .440... (and is if a Pietta) lands are .440 - grooves are .451. Now what size ball would be the smartest to use with this info? .451, .454, or .457?
Right .451 the chamber you press it into is .440. No matter what ball size you try to force into that chamber its gonn a be with an larger shaved ring and be harder on the Rev(loading leverand ram.
Uberti, ASP, and Euroarms, even the Colt NYC Dragoon .take .457. I just wouldn't force a .457 into a Pietta myself.
SG

Gunruner · June 21, 2008, 06:13 AM

All my shooting with this Uberti has been at 25 yards. It's as accurate as any handgun I own. I know I can file the front sight but was just wondering if a slightly heavier RB would shoot higher. I've read that the conicle bullets shoot high due to their weight. That's even with lighter powder charges. There is an inch to two inch difference in elevation with only 2 grain(weighed 28/30 grain) difference in the FFF Goex, no filler or wad, and the same .454 RB's. Just thinking and rambling..............Mike

Tom2 · June 21, 2008, 09:01 AM

Interesting. But I have examined many old Remington revolvers at gunshows for comparison to replicas. I can't afford one. 2-3k for a brown non shooter is just a bit too much luxury for me in practical terms, but I don't ever recall seeing any dovetails on the originals that I examined. And the other replicas besides Uberti don't have it done that I recall. Guess I have to do more research or something? Still neat guns. Now that I see that USFA is gonna make Remington marked replicas of high quality, but high price, that might be something to grab onto if the budget would stretch that far. But Ubertis are pretty nice guns. Wish they could drop the giant proofmarks and funky blue.

Hawg · June 21, 2008, 09:23 AM

Tom2, you just haven't seen one made before mid 1862.

sundance44s · June 22, 2008, 12:49 PM

Careful doing a lot of shooting useing those 457 balls the weak link in the 1858 Remington is in the little loading lever pins ...I`ve sheered one in half before , ( like a sheer pin ) I`ve started useing a cylinder loading stand so my ball rammers stay tight like new .
If the 451 balls are shaveing lead when loading they`ll shoot fine ..I go with the 454 balls because all my cap and ballers shoot the 454 well ...The 457 balls will shave a lot of lead , wasted lead ..Lead is getting expencive .
I haven`t started saveing the shaved lead yet ..but I do pick up balls from the berm and around the steel targets .

Smokin_Gun · June 22, 2008, 05:32 PM

My Pietta only takes .451" or my Lee .452". larger require too much force.

I Got 4 Rems and a Colt Dragoon That shave maybe a .0005"-.001" or
so chambers are .450"-.453". They go in those pretty easy.

You are quite right about pressin' too large a ball into the chambers...aren't really getting a heavier ball just shavin' more lead off yur balls.
I have found the Piettas list and take a .451" ball...I use a ,452" ball with a Lee mold. Uberti take. and List a .454" ball (all but Dragoon and Walkers they take a .457" as a rule).

My Uberti 58 Sophia A. Uberti takes .454" or .457"...I use .457". Euroarms Rems take a .457" just fine, ASP Rems .457", another European Engraved Rem takes .457" ... th Colt 1st Model Dragoon Made in NYC, N.Y. Takes .457". That one may take a .490" the loading lever would take it...LoL

SG

Hawg · June 22, 2008, 06:34 PM

Quote:

I have found the Piettas list and take a .451" ball...

I have two Piettas and neither one will shave lead with a .451. The Cabela's manual says .451 but the Pietta manual says .454 I use .454 in mine.

Smokin_Gun · June 22, 2008, 10:25 PM

[QUOTE][ have two Piettas and neither one will shave lead with a .451. The Cabela's manual says .451 but the Pietta manual says .454 I use .454 in mine./QUOTE]

Never said you couldn't use .454 in place of .451's ...what I said was don't just pess a.457 ball in any ol rev. I did also say measure your chambers first, rthen let common sense and particular judgement take over for you.
Shaved rings of .001" to .003" are perfect.
(.454-.451=.003;.457-.454=.003)

I have an ASP Rem and a Euroarms Rem that have a

Smokin_Gun · June 22, 2008, 10:27 PM

[QUOTE][ have two Piettas and neither one will shave lead with a .451. The Cabela's manual says .451 but the Pietta manual says .454 I use .454 in mine./QUOTE]

Never said you couldn't use .454 in place of .451's ...what I said was don't just pess a.457 ball in any ol rev. I did also say measure your chambers first, rthen let common sense and particular judgement take over for you.
Shaved rings of .001" to .003" are perfect.
(.454-.451=.003;.457-.454=.003)

I have an ASP Rem and a Euroarms Rem that have a deep chamfer to the chambers and don't usually make a ring with .457 balls.

Measure the chambers it's worth it. Then do the math...

SG

Beauhooligan · July 2, 2008, 07:13 AM

I have two pair of 1858 Remington replicas, one brace made by Uberti, the other a stainless steel pair from Pietta. All four revolvers shoot .454 pure lead balls with excellent accuracy. The stainless Pietta '58s are absolute rocks. I have shot the heck out of them without a single problem, and they are very accurate.

The Uberti revolvers are also accurate, but have broken springs and trigger sears, and they occasionally misfire. I sold my Uberti 1860s because of similar problems, and one of them being wildly inaccurate. I do know that except for my Ruger Old Army, which is designed for .457 round balls, I would not want to force them into any of my Colt or Remington .44 caliber replicas. For Colt and Remington replicas it's strictly .452 or .454 round balls for me.

Beauhooligan NRA Life NMLRA Life SASS Life
American by birth, Southern by the Grace of God

45Marlin carbine · July 2, 2008, 08:33 AM

I use .454 balls in my Pietta '58 Rem. but for past few years shoot mostly Lee mold conicals. I'm a believer in them.

June 20, 2008, 06:47 PM	#1
Gunruner Member Join Date: March 26, 2008 Posts: 27	the .457 RB in 1858 Uberti I have one of the newer 1858 Uberti's and have been using .454 RB with great success. But I was wondering if I might try the .457 RB and if it would bring the group up a little as the .454 hits approx 4" low and dead center with 30gr FFF Goex. Not really sure if the tiny bit of additional lead weight will be much anyway? The .454 RB's are a tight fit and seem to load with a little difficulty. I know 3 thousands isn't much but are they tougher to ram? Anyone do a test for accuracy and different POI between the .454 and .457 Ball's in a particular .44 repro? Just deciding on which way to go to minimize expenses, buying one size vs buying 2 different size RB. Any info appreciated......Mike

June 20, 2008, 07:50 PM	#3
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Ditto. If you compare the Uberti front sight, it is much taller than on an original Rem. Presumably to allow filing it down. Well at least it is centered. Probably that front sight base is dovetailed into the barrel like that to allow drifting it for windage but I think it would look awful sticking out off center. The originals don't have that dovetail on the front sight. Or the one on the ramrod retainer. Don't know what that one is on there for, wish I knew but must be something like easier fitting of the parts or what? __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

June 20, 2008, 11:52 PM	#5
Oquirrh Senior Member Join Date: May 5, 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 188	i've shot both... in my Pietta Remington. It's a little more difficult to ram the 457 ball, but no big deal. Doesn't seem to affect elevation. I haven't had enough time to work on loads, so I couldn't make a call on accuracy--but I was making one big hole at 50 feet -- about four inches low--with the .457 balls. I also have a Ruger OA so I had the bigger balls around. I'm going to burn a bunch of powder thru my Rem tomorrow maybe I'll learn something. IMVHO, I think you'd be ok with just the .457 balls for the Remington.

June 21, 2008, 02:24 AM	#6
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Meassure your chambers, dial calipers will work. Say your Pietta say .440... (and is if a Pietta) lands are .440 - grooves are .451. Now what size ball would be the smartest to use with this info? .451, .454, or .457? Right .451 the chamber you press it into is .440. No matter what ball size you try to force into that chamber its gonn a be with an larger shaved ring and be harder on the Rev(loading leverand ram. Uberti, ASP, and Euroarms, even the Colt NYC Dragoon .take .457. I just wouldn't force a .457 into a Pietta myself. SG __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

June 21, 2008, 09:01 AM	#8
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Interesting. But I have examined many old Remington revolvers at gunshows for comparison to replicas. I can't afford one. 2-3k for a brown non shooter is just a bit too much luxury for me in practical terms, but I don't ever recall seeing any dovetails on the originals that I examined. And the other replicas besides Uberti don't have it done that I recall. Guess I have to do more research or something? Still neat guns. Now that I see that USFA is gonna make Remington marked replicas of high quality, but high price, that might be something to grab onto if the budget would stretch that far. But Ubertis are pretty nice guns. Wish they could drop the giant proofmarks and funky blue. __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

June 20, 2008, 06:56 PM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	They'll be a little harder to load but I doubt you'll see any improvement. The newer guns have tall sights so you can file them down once you find your favorite load. Older guns shoot high.

June 20, 2008, 09:03 PM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	The old model Remingtons had dovetailed front sights and a dovetailed retainer. Front sight was a silver cone tho. You also didn't have to lower the lever to remove the cylinder. I had one made in 1862.

June 21, 2008, 06:13 AM	#7
Gunruner Member Join Date: March 26, 2008 Posts: 27	All my shooting with this Uberti has been at 25 yards. It's as accurate as any handgun I own. I know I can file the front sight but was just wondering if a slightly heavier RB would shoot higher. I've read that the conicle bullets shoot high due to their weight. That's even with lighter powder charges. There is an inch to two inch difference in elevation with only 2 grain(weighed 28/30 grain) difference in the FFF Goex, no filler or wad, and the same .454 RB's. Just thinking and rambling..............Mike

June 21, 2008, 09:23 AM	#9
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	Tom2, you just haven't seen one made before mid 1862.

June 22, 2008, 12:49 PM	#10
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	Careful doing a lot of shooting useing those 457 balls the weak link in the 1858 Remington is in the little loading lever pins ...I`ve sheered one in half before , ( like a sheer pin ) I`ve started useing a cylinder loading stand so my ball rammers stay tight like new . If the 451 balls are shaveing lead when loading they`ll shoot fine ..I go with the 454 balls because all my cap and ballers shoot the 454 well ...The 457 balls will shave a lot of lead , wasted lead ..Lead is getting expencive . I haven`t started saveing the shaved lead yet ..but I do pick up balls from the berm and around the steel targets .

June 22, 2008, 05:32 PM	#11
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	My Pietta only takes .451" or my Lee .452". larger require too much force. I Got 4 Rems and a Colt Dragoon That shave maybe a .0005"-.001" or so chambers are .450"-.453". They go in those pretty easy. You are quite right about pressin' too large a ball into the chambers...aren't really getting a heavier ball just shavin' more lead off yur balls. I have found the Piettas list and take a .451" ball...I use a ,452" ball with a Lee mold. Uberti take. and List a .454" ball (all but Dragoon and Walkers they take a .457" as a rule). My Uberti 58 Sophia A. Uberti takes .454" or .457"...I use .457". Euroarms Rems take a .457" just fine, ASP Rems .457", another European Engraved Rem takes .457" ... th Colt 1st Model Dragoon Made in NYC, N.Y. Takes .457". That one may take a .490" the loading lever would take it...LoL SG __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

June 22, 2008, 10:25 PM	#13
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	[QUOTE][ have two Piettas and neither one will shave lead with a .451. The Cabela's manual says .451 but the Pietta manual says .454 I use .454 in mine./QUOTE] Never said you couldn't use .454 in place of .451's ...what I said was don't just pess a.457 ball in any ol rev. I did also say measure your chambers first, rthen let common sense and particular judgement take over for you. Shaved rings of .001" to .003" are perfect. (.454-.451=.003;.457-.454=.003) I have an ASP Rem and a Euroarms Rem that have a __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

June 22, 2008, 10:27 PM	#14
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Measure the chambers it's worth it [QUOTE][ have two Piettas and neither one will shave lead with a .451. The Cabela's manual says .451 but the Pietta manual says .454 I use .454 in mine./QUOTE] Never said you couldn't use .454 in place of .451's ...what I said was don't just pess a.457 ball in any ol rev. I did also say measure your chambers first, rthen let common sense and particular judgement take over for you. Shaved rings of .001" to .003" are perfect. (.454-.451=.003;.457-.454=.003) I have an ASP Rem and a Euroarms Rem that have a deep chamfer to the chambers and don't usually make a ring with .457 balls. Measure the chambers it's worth it. Then do the math... SG __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

July 2, 2008, 07:13 AM	#15
Beauhooligan Junior member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Posts: 70	the .457 RB in 1858 Uberti I have two pair of 1858 Remington replicas, one brace made by Uberti, the other a stainless steel pair from Pietta. All four revolvers shoot .454 pure lead balls with excellent accuracy. The stainless Pietta '58s are absolute rocks. I have shot the heck out of them without a single problem, and they are very accurate. The Uberti revolvers are also accurate, but have broken springs and trigger sears, and they occasionally misfire. I sold my Uberti 1860s because of similar problems, and one of them being wildly inaccurate. I do know that except for my Ruger Old Army, which is designed for .457 round balls, I would not want to force them into any of my Colt or Remington .44 caliber replicas. For Colt and Remington replicas it's strictly .452 or .454 round balls for me. Beauhooligan NRA Life NMLRA Life SASS Life American by birth, Southern by the Grace of God

July 2, 2008, 08:33 AM	#16
45Marlin carbine Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: South-Western North Carolina Posts: 1,124	I use .454 balls in my Pietta '58 Rem. but for past few years shoot mostly Lee mold conicals. I'm a believer in them.