Announcement turned Discussion ... Heads Up! - Page 3

**Bud Helms** · August 3, 2009, 03:13 PM

That's fine, I just wanted to be clear on what you meant.

Shadi Khalil · August 6, 2009, 02:28 AM

I think the no text rule is a good one. Let the image speak for itself.

**Bud Helms** · August 6, 2009, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doogle

People may wish to consider...>...that not including an inline image and/or making the image too large may both mitigate against their chances of success in such a contest.

If you don't have an image display some people may not bother clicking a link to view it.

Displaying an image that is too large, and requires people to scroll around to see it all, reduces the visual impact of the image as a whole.

I agree and I've always considered these disadvantages to be self-imposed by the contestant.

Quote:

I thought the text within images issue had been resolved, and it was to be allowed.

It has been resolved ... it's now come back up for discussion. I don't think it's fair to you, the contestants, for me to keep making changes to the rules based on the last post here, so I'm not making any more changes on-the-fly. This needs to be settled and I'm just reading all this discussion for now. I'd like to see a fairness to the contestants and a fairness to the theme of the contest be part of any more changes.

Quote:

I would question whether the inline image and image size rule changes are really necessary.

I too don't necessarily agree with a size change to the rules as a requirement to enter. That has always has been a "tip" as in, "If you want your entry to be easily viewed, then make it easy to view."

Then, so is the issue of whether an inline image is used versus an attachment the same: not a requirement. So far, we've let the contestant decide how much trouble he/she takes in order to make their entry easily viewable. Another self imposed disadvantage, if you will.

grymster2007 · August 6, 2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

I think the no text rule is a good one.

I'll reiterate that I like knowing what I'm looking at. Many folks here can immediately identify most guns manufactured in the past century. I'm not one of them, so leaving the option for the poster to identify their entry is something I'd like to see continued. At the same time, I too am not taken by the "brochures", but I don't oppose someone posting them. They are simply unlikely to get my vote. In fact, I care even less for grainy, out-of-focus, cell-phone camera photos of stock 10-22s leaned up against the garage wall next to the rake and shovel. Or heavily photoshopped pics, adding unnatural effects. But I don't think there should be rules against them, simply let the membership decide what makes for a good gun photograph.

PDBreske · August 6, 2009, 10:53 AM

And I'll reiterate that any form of text does not belong in a photography contest. Do we agree this is a photo contest and not a lesson in gun recognition? No one needs to know what gun they are looking at to determine if the photo of it is good or bad.

And again I'll suggest that anyone who needs to know what they are looking at can simply send a PM to the gun owner and ask. If, at that point, you're swayed by his tale of receiving the firearm from his great-grandfather who, on his deathbed, swore the AR15 was given to him personally by the Hawaiian King Kamehameha, then, by all means, vote on it. (I happen to think that story is crap, but Gramps said it happened. He was old and dying so maybe he was also hallucinating. Besides, everyone knows Kamehameha preferred an XCR over an AR any day.)

ClemBert · August 6, 2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

And I'll reiterate that any form of text does not belong in a photography contest. Do we agree this is a photo contest and not a lesson in gun recognition? No one needs to know what gun they are looking at to determine if the photo of it is good or bad.

And again I'll suggest that anyone who needs to know what they are looking at can simply send a PM to the gun owner and ask. If, at that point, you're swayed by his tale of receiving the firearm from his great-grandfather who, on his deathbed, swore the AR15 was given to him personally by the Hawaiian King Kamehameha, then, by all means, vote on it. (I happen to think that story is crap, but Gramps said it happened. He was old and dying so maybe he was also hallucinating. Besides, everyone knows Kamehameha preferred an XCR over an AR any day.)

I agree with the highlighted statement. If you find the photo interesting you can PM the gun owner and ask him. Not only will you get the make and model but you can probably get an interesting story and make a new friend; Something that captioned text isn't going to give you.

And while we are reiterating, I would once again stress that a photo contest is not the same as an image contest. If the photo you present contains information in the data file that wasn't there when you "snapped" the picture then most likely you have an image and not a photo. Or, to put it another way your "photo" has been doctored up to contain visual data that wasn't there in the original photo to begin with. I'm not taking about simply using software to enhance the brightness, contrast, hue, saturation, or color balance. I'm taking about merging two image files together, or making the background of your photo file transparent then merging a background from some other photo or image file, or deciding you'll use software to add a texture to the background. If this is an image contest then that is fine. But I think this is a photo contest. With the exception of enhancing the brightness, contrast, hue, saturation, or color balance of the photo the background behind the firearm should remain as it was "snapped".

Please let me know if this is an image contest or photo contest. Just need to know the rules that's all.

**Bud Helms** · August 6, 2009, 02:14 PM

I thought this was understood by all of us.

There is a line/sentence of text permitted in the post which is NOT ON the image that can be used to identify what the gun is. In fact, I think that is the best use of it. It is a keyboard entry.

What we are discussing is text ON THE IMAGE.

PDBreske · August 6, 2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

What we are discussing is text ON THE IMAGE.

No, what I was discussing was any text, anywhere in the post. I thought I was clear on that. In fact, I'm sure I was very clear. Just in case:

I SUGGEST A RULE THAT PROHIBITS ANY AND ALL TEXT EITHER AS A SENTENCE NEXT TO THE ENTRY OR AS A PART OF THE ENTERED IMAGE.

This is the easiest of all rules to enforce and the least ambiguous. "Can I have a single line of text?" No. "Can I add text to my image?" No. "Can I describe the pictured gun?" No.

Any other rule that allows even a seemingly innocuous line of text leads to ambiguity and questions. Prohibiting all text makes it easy to keep everyone on a level playing field and I don't see how this can be argued. If you think your photo is enhanced by a descriptive line of text, than you have to agree that text somehow manages to skew the odds of winning in your favor. If you feel the text detracts from the image, you have to agree that allowing the text would subtract from your total vote count.

Why is this so hard to understand?

EDIT: I might add that photos don't lie. Anyone can make up a really cool backstory for a pictured gun and try to win favor with the voters by doing so, but a good photo is a good photo and deserves to stand on its own.

**Bud Helms** · August 6, 2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Why is this so hard to understand?

Hold on a second there, big guy. This item: "4. The photos must be posted with no accompanying text - this is a photo contest, not a history class - and posted images must be free of descriptive text, including watermarks, logos, ads, etc." Does not alone make that clear.

Let's not get our panties wadded up just because I did not interpret to meet your intentions.

"posted with no accompanying text" and "images must be free of descriptive text, including watermarks, logos, ads, etc." are two different things. They would need to be separated if we were to use your list of rules.

Maybe it's time to start that poll.

PDBreske · August 6, 2009, 06:23 PM

I really hope that's not the only thing you took away from my previous post.

PDBreske · August 6, 2009, 06:40 PM

I think it's clear why a new set of rules would be a good thing. Look at all the questions about what can stay and what must go. It's too complicated! The current rules number twelve and span two full screens on my rather large monitor. My suggested rules number nine and are much less than half a page.

I can see how someone might be confused by my suggestion for #4:

Quote:

4. The photos must be posted with no accompanying text - this is a photo contest, not a history class - and posted images must be free of descriptive text, including watermarks, logos, ads, etc.

Here's a revised version:

Quote:

4. Text of any kind is prohibited. Your post may not include anything other than a photo of your gun, and the photo may not bear any text, writing, watermarks or logos other than that which is on the firearm itself.

Simple and easy to understand.

**Bud Helms** · August 6, 2009, 07:28 PM

I like the idea of condensing the rules. I think we'll do that.

Quote:

I really hope that's not the only thing you took away from my previous post.

No, but it certainly stood out.

I like #4's rewrite.

**Bud Helms** · August 6, 2009, 07:35 PM

Rereading, I found this lost (to me) tidbit ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDBreske

... but I'm proposing no text at all anywhere in the post.

Post #50.

*************

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClemBert

And while we are reiterating, I would once again stress that a photo contest is not the same as an image contest. If the photo you present contains information in the data file that wasn't there when you "snapped" the picture then most likely you have an image and not a photo. Or, to put it another way your "photo" has been doctored up to contain visual data that wasn't there in the original photo to begin with. I'm not taking about simply using software to enhance the brightness, contrast, hue, saturation, or color balance. I'm taking about merging two image files together, or making the background of your photo file transparent then merging a background from some other photo or image file, or deciding you'll use software to add a texture to the background. If this is an image contest then that is fine. But I think this is a photo contest. With the exception of enhancing the brightness, contrast, hue, saturation, or color balance of the photo the background behind the firearm should remain as it was "snapped".

Please let me know if this is an image contest or photo contest. Just need to know the rules that's all.

Well, it is a photo contest ... on the honor system.

Okay, I promise not to use "snapshot" again.

DryGulch · August 7, 2009, 11:24 AM

Does the rule: 1 photo, mesn per month or 1 anytime?

PDBreske · August 7, 2009, 12:13 PM

You may enter only one photo in the monthy contest.

SKULLANDCROSSBONES65 · August 7, 2009, 07:52 PM

G'day. I like to know what I am looking at as my ability to identify a firearm is limited. I would not bother to PM every photo entrant each month to ask what the gun was.
If you didn't see the text (image) in the viewfinder when you took the photo and you want/need to add text then type it onto the post.

CraigC · August 16, 2009, 11:49 AM

I like there to be a single descriptive sentence of what I'm looking at. We're not professional judges in a professional photographer's competition. We're shooters who like looking at pictures of guns and when I look at a picture of a gun, I like to know what it is. No accompanying storyline, no fluff. Just a description of what the picture depicts. I think all the nit-picking about text is taking away from the "spirit of the game". This shouldn't be taken too seriously and we shouldn't go out of our way to take the fun out of it.

I also agree that the picture should be contained within the post. I, for one, will rarely click on a link or attachment to see what it is. In the photo contest, I'll just browse right past it.

PS, you don't need a fancy camera to take a good picture. Most of mine were taken with a 12yr old Olympus 1.2MP camera. The biggest thing is proper lighting and I prefer natural settings, such as early morning or late day in overcast weather and no flash. The one I posted for July was taken with a Canon Rebel SLR but it's a rarity and I'm far from a professional.

August 7, 2009, 11:24 AM	#64
DryGulch Member Join Date: May 15, 2008 Location: Missouri Posts: 44	Question? Does the rule: 1 photo, mesn per month or 1 anytime? __________________ A .45 in the hand is better than 911 on the phone! - Man's got to know his limitations...

August 7, 2009, 07:52 PM	#66
SKULLANDCROSSBONES65 Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2008 Location: Far Nth Wst QLD Australia Posts: 992	G'day. I like to know what I am looking at as my ability to identify a firearm is limited. I would not bother to PM every photo entrant each month to ask what the gun was. If you didn't see the text (image) in the viewfinder when you took the photo and you want/need to add text then type it onto the post. __________________ If you're not confused, you're not trying hard enough! When you're confused, I'll try to use smaller words!!!

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August 3, 2009, 03:13 PM	#51
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	That's fine, I just wanted to be clear on what you meant.

August 6, 2009, 02:28 AM	#52
Shadi Khalil Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 5,210	I think the no text rule is a good one. Let the image speak for itself.

August 6, 2009, 10:53 AM	#55
PDBreske Junior member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Posts: 171	And I'll reiterate that any form of text does not belong in a photography contest. Do we agree this is a photo contest and not a lesson in gun recognition? No one needs to know what gun they are looking at to determine if the photo of it is good or bad. And again I'll suggest that anyone who needs to know what they are looking at can simply send a PM to the gun owner and ask. If, at that point, you're swayed by his tale of receiving the firearm from his great-grandfather who, on his deathbed, swore the AR15 was given to him personally by the Hawaiian King Kamehameha, then, by all means, vote on it. (I happen to think that story is crap, but Gramps said it happened. He was old and dying so maybe he was also hallucinating. Besides, everyone knows Kamehameha preferred an XCR over an AR any day.)

August 6, 2009, 02:14 PM	#57
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	I thought this was understood by all of us. There is a line/sentence of text permitted in the post which is NOT ON the image that can be used to identify what the gun is. In fact, I think that is the best use of it. It is a keyboard entry. What we are discussing is text ON THE IMAGE.

August 6, 2009, 06:23 PM	#60
PDBreske Junior member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Posts: 171	I really hope that's not the only thing you took away from my previous post.

August 7, 2009, 12:13 PM	#65
PDBreske Junior member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Posts: 171	You may enter only one photo in the monthy contest.

August 16, 2009, 11:49 AM	#67
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	I like there to be a single descriptive sentence of what I'm looking at. We're not professional judges in a professional photographer's competition. We're shooters who like looking at pictures of guns and when I look at a picture of a gun, I like to know what it is. No accompanying storyline, no fluff. Just a description of what the picture depicts. I think all the nit-picking about text is taking away from the "spirit of the game". This shouldn't be taken too seriously and we shouldn't go out of our way to take the fun out of it. I also agree that the picture should be contained within the post. I, for one, will rarely click on a link or attachment to see what it is. In the photo contest, I'll just browse right past it. PS, you don't need a fancy camera to take a good picture. Most of mine were taken with a 12yr old Olympus 1.2MP camera. The biggest thing is proper lighting and I prefer natural settings, such as early morning or late day in overcast weather and no flash. The one I posted for July was taken with a Canon Rebel SLR but it's a rarity and I'm far from a professional.