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August 12, 2014, 04:55 PM | #1 |
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Federal judge upholds strict new Maryland gun laws
Looks like the Maryland assault weapons ban and magazine capacity restrictions will stand. The judge cited statistics saying that the banned firearms and large capacity magazines were rarely owned but disproportionately used in mass shootings and in murders of leos. Will this be appealed? What can we do to counter the arguments that firearms and magazines that hold over ten rounds are unusual and dangerous arms?
link Edit to add a quote from the judge: “Upon review of all the parties’ evidence, the court seriously doubts that the banned assault long guns are commonly possessed for lawful purposes, particularly self-defense in the home, which is at the core of the Second Amendment right, and is inclined to find the weapons fall outside Second Amendment protection as dangerous and unusual,” Judge Blake wrote. Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...#ixzz3ADa3hu6c Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter Last edited by 2damnold4this; August 12, 2014 at 05:05 PM. |
August 12, 2014, 05:33 PM | #2 |
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Dangerous by design, else they would be useless.
Unusual - I don't see how that matters. A blunderbuss is unusual too, so by that logic those have to go. The court doubts that the long guns are kept for lawful purposes. They make judgements on doubts? I doubt they can tie their shoes for themselves, but that doesn't make it true.
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August 12, 2014, 06:35 PM | #3 |
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The Judge 'seriously doubts' but apparently has no proof. Nonetheless, she is the ruling Judge.
Last edited by JWT; August 12, 2014 at 10:30 PM. |
August 12, 2014, 06:58 PM | #4 |
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Lawlessness and contempt for The Constitution is not just limited to executive branch and a few elite member of Congress. It's spreading. When the laws (and recent USSC decisions) say one thing and you ideology says something else, enforce your ideology 'cause "It's good to be the king."
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August 12, 2014, 07:09 PM | #5 |
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This is not the first ridiculous ruling she has made. Google her.
Apparently Federal Judge Cathy doesn't know that the AR and AK are far from "unusual", and I question her impartiality, submitting her past rulings make her unfit to substitute for Judge Judy. The Polity needs to become activist with activist judges and move for their impeachment when the political pendulum swing back the other way.
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August 12, 2014, 07:51 PM | #6 |
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Next stop, Supreme Court in a year or two.
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August 12, 2014, 09:24 PM | #7 | ||
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August 13, 2014, 05:34 AM | #8 | ||
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The Heller Court said: Quote:
Paul Revere did not ride along yelling for everyone to get inside. |
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August 13, 2014, 07:56 AM | #9 | |
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The really offensive part of the decision is the Judge claims she can grant a Motion for Summary Judgment because there is no dispute as to the material facts, then the Judge proceeds to list about half a dozen examples where each side is giving different material facts (How many assault rifles are in the United States? Is the law too overbroad given the harm it seeks to prevent? How common is ownership of these firearms? etc.) I can't even fathom how you can declare normal capacity magazines that have existed for 100 years "uncommon" and then cite a "disproportionate use in crime" (85% of all gun crimes involve them) - Well, duh... That's because they've been around for 100 years and every damn magazine fed firearm in the U.S. uses them - they are in fact, extremely common. One more disputed statement of material fact where the Judge swallowed the Defendant's argument whole while barely acknowledging the Plaintiff's facts to the contrary. I wouldn't be surprised if it got remanded just on the MSJ issue, though that would delay any ultimate decision on the real Second Amendment question - which may well have crossed her mind given the current political realities and court makeup. |
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August 13, 2014, 09:24 AM | #10 | |
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As wacky as the Maryland law is i expect it to stand.
Heller was not a resounding win for us. Heller was watered down in order to get a fifth justice on board. From the Heller decision (paragraphed for easier reading): Quote:
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August 13, 2014, 11:23 AM | #11 | |
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Problem #1: Scalia's nebulous "presumptively lawful" language implies that feature-focused prohibitions could stand. Problem #2: Our own rhetoric works against us. Us: "No decent shot requires 18 rounds to stop a burglar." Them: "Then you can make do with 10 and get more practice." (This, and you can get 10rd mags for almost any semi-auto sold in large numbers after 1990 or so; hence, such mags are certainly in "common use", to use another Heller phrase.) Us: "The magazine ban is pointless because, with practice, I can shoot a semi-auto with 10-round mags almost as fast as I can shoot with 17-round mags." Them: "Then what's the problem with the magazine ban? It sounds like the problem is that YOU need more practice." Us: "Banning flash hiders, bayonet lugs, and pistol grips is stupid, because they're just cosmetic, and the basic gun still works without them." Them: "If those features are just cosmetic, and the basic gun still works without them, then you don't really need 'em. Stop yer whining." IMHO we need to draw a lesson from recent setbacks for the pro-choice* movement, and NOT assume that we can rest on our laurels when faced with new legislation, simply because we've prevailed in the courts against past legislation. (*Let's NOT discuss this issue further- I'm just drawing a comparison.)
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August 13, 2014, 02:10 PM | #12 |
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But if Walmart sells them (AR-15 type rifles) isn't that proof that it is a common weapon? Also the fact that 8 Million people have them?
I would love to see the source of the statistic the judge used to make her ruling.
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August 13, 2014, 03:29 PM | #13 | |
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August 13, 2014, 08:57 PM | #14 | |
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August 14, 2014, 09:46 AM | #15 | |||
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/236628112/...urt-gun-ruling Quote:
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Note the flexibility in reasoning: 8.2 Million items legally possessed isn't common, but 5 "mass shootings" in two years is frequent. She really leans heavily on the concept of appellate deference to trial court factual determinations, but it is her reasoning that is egregious. She can't find an instance except for one she assures us does not apply, of a defensive use of an AR in MD. She then concludes that since this specific employment isn't present, "common use for lawful purposes" is substantially absent. It isn't a finding of fact that she asserts, but an argument resting on a misreading of Heller. According to her reasoning, second amendment protections would not survive an absence of crime, since the common use (employment) for self defense would evanesce and take the right along with it. Of course, the lawful purpose present in keeping (as in "keep and bear") an AR can be defensive even where it is never employed that way. Spare tires are common, and are kept for the purpose of replacing flats, even though flats are rare. The appellate brief should be a good read.
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http://www.npboards.com/index.php Last edited by zukiphile; August 14, 2014 at 10:05 AM. |
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August 22, 2014, 07:07 AM | #16 | |
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I don't support the ruling but predict the ruling will stand including at SCOTUS.
As far as this: Quote:
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August 23, 2014, 07:23 PM | #17 |
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Awhile ago, I started a thread that stated that Scalia's prose had major weaknesses and not an unconditional Gift from the Gun Deity. Some person - who we haven't seen again - chose to argue that Scalia was a wonder wily old bird and his decision would be the the road to the promised land.
Hmmm? As I also have ranted about, the claim that the AR and AK pattern guns are modern sporting rifles as a defense against the prose we see in MD or CO is again shown to be ludicrous. They must defended on the grounds to have such. I've started to see media call the gun in police hands military style rifles. I think incidents like Ferguson and the pictures of the officers' guns will flush the modern sporting rifle whine down the toilet of history. To identify them with sport is giving folks a perfect reason to ban them.
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August 26, 2014, 09:29 PM | #18 | |
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Scalia's decision was not a gift from a "gun deity" but we have not had a appropriate high level decision on common use yet. As far as predictions, the cultural trend shows an evolving existential threat to lawful civilian gun ownership. Actuary tables on liberal and conservative justices on SCOTUS indicate next presidential election will shape the court for a generation |
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August 26, 2014, 11:58 PM | #19 |
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Scalia's decision wasn't a "gift from the gun diety" perhaps, but the alternative might have been to see the majority opinion written by Brennan or Ginsberg. THAT would have been a gift from the anti-gun diety.
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August 27, 2014, 01:09 AM | #20 | ||
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August 27, 2014, 10:05 AM | #21 |
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The risk of Heller going the wrong way was one reason why the NRA didn't want to go to the SCOTUS. Heller was on the knife's edge.
My point is that we shouldn't overestimate it. I'm betting that we don't see another major victory that overturns the majority of current laws to lead us to the promised land of no permits needed, total reciprocity, FA for all, or overturning state AWBs. Like to be wrong but I didn't see Heller as a precursor to more great rulings. I think we will see total handgun bans disallowed and states will have to offer some kind of shall issue (whose rules may be onerous). But the CA, NY, MA, CO, CT, etc. gun type rules will stand.
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August 27, 2014, 10:08 AM | #22 | |
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August 27, 2014, 10:15 AM | #23 |
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Good thought, my read of the research on attitudes in those areas suggest that the urban populations are for the most part antigun. This isn't race, BTW - it seems to be urban east coast and parts of CA.
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August 27, 2014, 02:27 PM | #24 |
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While Scalia certainly wrote parts of Heller that can be criticized, his "presumptively lawful" language has been both a blessing and a curse. Courts aren't doing the required analysis - they are just blessing the regulation and quoting the presumptively lawful language.
On the one hand, it has screened out a lot of undesirable plaintiffs who might have made bad case law at the appellate level. On the other hand, we're still getting bad case law at the appelate level because those courts aren't really going much further in analysis either. Either way, the decision was going to have to have language like that or you wouldn't have lost one Justice but several. Thomas is really the only Justice whose shown an interest in interpreting things even if it upsets the apple cart. |
September 4, 2014, 11:05 PM | #25 | |
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The first clear demographic is that anti gun views are a profoundly gender based. The next clear determinate is political orientation. Third, but still very significant is urban/not urban |
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