November 2, 2013, 08:10 PM | #26 | |
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But most civilians are not 'into' guns all that much and thus they stick with 9mm, .38 Spl., and to a lessor extent .40 and .45. The .357 Sig is my CCW cartridge of choice as for semi-autos. With loads from Double Tap you get true .357 Magnum performance even from the small Glock 33. I figured why pay $$ for +p+ 9mm that is hard to find when I can get good .357 Sig JHP ammo from most shops and it's more powerful than +p+ 9mm. But again, most citizens are not into guns. Hence even the .380 and .32 are still popular! Deaf
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November 2, 2013, 11:04 PM | #27 |
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A department I worked for issued Glock 32s. I think the only ones who liked it were the ones who decided we would carry it. Pointless caliber.
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November 2, 2013, 11:10 PM | #28 | |
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As for the .380, if that's the size you can carry, a gun is better than no gun.
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November 2, 2013, 11:35 PM | #29 | |
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The way I look it at, a gun that chambers the .357 sig shoots a round that is the same size as a 9mm with more recoil, more flash, while having less capacity. I am in the school of thought that a couple hundred FPS is not going to save my butt. I can put shots on target quicker and with more accuracy with a 9mm than I can with a .357 sig.
It's like the old .308 vs 30-06 argument for hunting. Both rounds at similar distances can accomplish the same exact thing with the same exact results. Sure at longer distances the 30-06 has a slight advantage, as does the .357 sig having a flatter trajectory, but when you are talking about using them both at the same distance, the difference is negligible. If you like the .357 sig that's fine, it's a great round, but 9mm fits my needs better. Quote:
Last edited by Dragline45; November 2, 2013 at 11:41 PM. |
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November 3, 2013, 02:45 AM | #30 |
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It is my winter time EDC in the S&WM&P Full Size with Crimson Trace Laser Grip loaded with Federal 125 gr HST.
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November 3, 2013, 04:07 AM | #31 |
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9mm shoots to POA at 100 meters. What's flatter than that for a pistol?
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November 3, 2013, 05:43 AM | #32 |
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2 Texas DPS officers had to shoot back at a man in up high in an 18 wheeler cab. One officer used a .45 and they did not penetrate the cab door. The other officer had the then new .357 Sig which got through that steel cab door and ended the fight. Most agencies that use .357 Sig are happy with them.
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November 3, 2013, 08:18 AM | #33 |
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That is precisely the reason I don't use the 357 Sig for HD, the ability to pass through many barriers. How many car stops do you conduct?
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November 3, 2013, 08:36 AM | #34 |
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That does not mean it goes through people like a hot knife through butter. We're talking 125 grain gold dot hollow points, not FMJ.
I once had a carload of gangbangers roll up on me while I was walking down the sidewalk in Houston. I did not have to shoot but if I did I want .357 Sig hollow points whether it hits glass, steel, or cholo. Ditto if I get carjacked and have to shoot out of my car. |
November 3, 2013, 09:18 AM | #35 | |
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I'm not a ".45 guy", and I don't dislike .357 Sig. I'm simply pointing out that we have to be objective, and consider variables that come into play. There are MANY questions that come into play when we try to determine which rounds are the best fit for our purpose. Likely context of use is a huge one. As a private citizen, what percentage of encounters are likely to involve shooting through auto material? That's just one of many things for each of us to consider. |
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November 3, 2013, 09:40 AM | #36 | |
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November 3, 2013, 09:46 AM | #37 |
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I will just keep my .40 and be happy with it. I also have a .357 snubbie I carry and I like that too.
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November 3, 2013, 10:04 AM | #38 |
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The .357 Sig will penetrate more barrier material but with the same ammo, on human opponents, will expand and stop inside them.
The bullets are designed to do just that and work quite well. As for more flash and blast, hey all high powered handguns have flash and blast, be it 9mm, .40 S&W, .357 Sig, .45 ACP, .357 magnum... But as for flash, most high end ammo has flash retardant power. And blast? http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml Table 3. CENTERFIRE PISTOL DATA .25 ACP 155.0 dB .32 LONG 152.4 dB .32 ACP 153.5 dB .380 157.7 dB 9mm 159.8 dB .38 S&W 153.5 dB .38 Spl 156.3 dB .357 Magnum 164.3 dB .41 Magnum 163.2 dB .44 Spl 155.9 dB .45 ACP 157.0 dB .45 COLT 154.7 dB .357 Sig ought to be near the .357 magnum but I doubt more cause there is no flash gap on semi-autos. But also note the 30-06 in the other table as well as the 12 gauge in 18 inch barrel form. GIs's shot lots of 06 in WW2 and Korea, and 7.62 Nato since then. I doubt any loss of hearing from firing a few shots in SD. Deaf
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“To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides Last edited by Deaf Smith; November 3, 2013 at 10:10 AM. |
November 3, 2013, 10:21 AM | #39 | |
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My grandfather who was a WW2 vet spent his whole life with severe tinnitus and a big old hearing aid in each year. Even with the hearing aids he could barely hear. Even today, hearing loss and tinnitus are one of the major disabilities reported by veterans when they return home. Couple tinnitus with PTSD and you have yourself a really tough time. |
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November 3, 2013, 11:04 AM | #40 |
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Interesting image
Probably been posted before, but since so many newbies....
Aside from 9mm & 50 AE, not much difference between 357 Sig, 40 S&W, & 45 ACP. Maybe we should all carry Desert Eagles!
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November 3, 2013, 11:41 AM | #41 | |
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"If someone believes it" it may influence their decision but that doesn't mean we don't question it when we see it, since it isn't true. In terms of loading the Sig, there are a variety of ways to prevent setback. Note first that properly sized cases solve the problem in most instances. Factory ammo doesn't use any special tricks to prevent setback, it's just made correctly. A reloader can also use compressed charges to further prevent it. Lee Factory Crimp die can help if used correctly. In any case, it's nothing particularly special or difficult. |
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November 3, 2013, 06:29 PM | #42 | |
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November 3, 2013, 08:15 PM | #43 | |
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Last edited by Dragline45; November 3, 2013 at 08:36 PM. |
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November 3, 2013, 08:21 PM | #44 |
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There is something to auditory exclusion. I've been in a few firefights and didn't remember or have any perception of injury to the ears but I've shot down a pheasant w/o protection and I had a ringing in my ears afterward.
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November 3, 2013, 08:25 PM | #45 |
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I'm not going to debate you, Dragline, but I will say that I disagree to some extent, as I know the difference in ears ringing and ears NOT ringing. If the ears are ringing for several minutes, and yet at other times, acute hearing is not lost, SOMETHING was different, call it what you will. And I believe that something protects the hearing on those occasions. (And though you may use different terminology, I figure adrenaline plays a part...)
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November 3, 2013, 08:27 PM | #46 | ||
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Last edited by Dragline45; November 3, 2013 at 08:32 PM. |
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November 3, 2013, 08:27 PM | #47 |
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That's somewhat inaccurate. The stapedius muscle as part of the auditory reflex (above 85 dB) contracts and protects the cochlea from transmission of high intensity sound--but its function is variable across the population and it's uncertain if it actually prevents hearing damage. I'm guessing it mitigates it...
With that said, my 357 SIG P229 was a really loud gun and I hated shooting it at an indoor range.
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November 3, 2013, 08:31 PM | #48 | |
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November 3, 2013, 08:36 PM | #49 |
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Oh, totally. I'm just saying that we have a reflex that protects us from loud noises.
Shooting guns without hearing protection can cause damage the first shot you hear. For me it was ratting around in the back of helicopters for two years that killed my hearing. I wear plugs and earmuffs, my wife says I'm deaf like a man twice my age.
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November 3, 2013, 08:41 PM | #50 |
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I can imagine spending a few years in the back of a helicopter will wreak havoc on your ears. Even some factory workers who work in much less noisier environments than you did in helicopters suffer from hearing loss from years of exposure. Like you, I always double up with plugs and muff's at the range.
Sorry to hijack the thread, but hearing loss is no joke and it is extremely important to protect ones ears. |
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