BPCR bullet

458winshooter · May 23, 2010, 06:28 PM

Does anyone here shoot BPCR?If so what bullet do you use?Do you cast your own?If so what mold is your preferance?Do you use pure lead, wheelweight,or linotype?thanks

Jim Watson · May 23, 2010, 07:03 PM

I shoot BPCR with a .38-55 and .40-65.
Lyman 358674 335 grain is good in my rebored barrel with 15" twist. A stock 18" twist might not stabilize it (but one source says it will.)
The Lyman 410663 400 grain Snover is great in .40-65, not much to beat it until you start getting into some of the "NASA" designs.
I don't shoot .45-70 but one of the Creedmoor or Postell styles would be good, and the original 500 grain government design nearly always works.

If you don't mind paying for a custom mould, Paul Jones makes the best I have seen.

I have cast bullets out of 20:1 lead:tin alloy; most BPCR shooters favor that or something a bit softer down to 25:1 or 30:1. A paper patch loader will go as soft as 40:1. I don't know anybody using pure lead, a little tin helps the casting as well as hardening the alloy a bit.

I have bought bullets made with antimonial lead and they do ok, but would not use it myself.

Wheelweights are inconsistent and linotype is way harder than you want for BPCR.

kraigwy · May 23, 2010, 09:09 PM

I just got back from shooting my first BP Creedmoor Match this weekend.

Now I've been shooting high power and loading match ammo for HP and 1000 yard shooting for over 30 years, I learned when dealing with BPCR Shooting, you best forget everything you learned about match rifle shooting. BP and Conventional rifle shooting is as differant as night and day.

I would recommend you go to a BPCR and talk to the shooters. They had some great ones at this match, One is on the US Creedmoor team, they are more then willing to help.

I just cast up a bunch of bullets, stuff the cases with powder, They shot pretty good up to 200 yards. They shot totally differant at 800-1000. Back to the drawing board for me, with my new found, humbling knowledge.

Powderman · May 23, 2010, 09:12 PM

I cast a 500 grain spire point, paper patched w/ 9lb. onionskin to .458. I also shoot 500 grain round nose Postell-type bullets, with 4 grooves.

I load these on 115 grains of Goex 1F, .030 veg. wad and .600 compression. A big grease cookie (almost 1/8") to keep fouling soft in that long barrel. Another .030 veg. wad. Bullets are seated by hand.

By the way, I do NOT size my cases anymore. Treat the loaded rounds gently, and they'll be fine.

The rifle is a .45-120 Sharps, made by C. Sharps; 30" heavy octagon barrel and LR sights.

458winshooter · June 8, 2010, 08:26 AM

What rifle type is the most prevailant,Sharps,Highwall,Rolling block?Can a lever action be used?How about duplex loads?thanks Russ

Jim Watson · June 8, 2010, 08:45 AM

The 1874 Sharps is the most common, Made in America Shiloh and C. Sharps preferred, Pedersoli the best of the imports.
Even though they haven't been made in 10+ years, the Browning BPCR on a modified Highwall action is very popular. There have been a few the same with Winchester markings.
Otherwise, real Winchesters and new or old Rolling Blocks are pretty common; along with a few CPA Stevens and Ballards. The C. Sharps 1875 is a good deal, less expensive than their 1874s but just as accurate even though not as pretty. There are a few Remington Hepburns around and I have seen one ever Miller Model F on the Farrow design. There is a Peabody reproduction but I have not seen one in use.

An NRA Black Powder Silhouette or Target Rifle must be a single shot.
The Silhouette rifle must have an exposed hammer and be of a type available in the 19th century. The Target rifle can be hammerless like an 1878 Sharps Borchardt and even of modern design as long as it shoots a period caliber.
No bolt actions allowed, even early ones.
There is a separate Cowboy Lever Action Silhouette event.

No duplex black over smokeless loads may be used in NRA competition. Only black or Pyrodex can be used for Silhouette, other "substitutes" appear to be allowed in Target shooting. Some of the outlaw matches like The Q will allow duplex or smokeless loads but not many.

458winshooter · June 8, 2010, 09:42 AM

Thanks Jim, I have been looking on gun broker alot at the Sharps but recently I have been smitten by the Highwalls.Maybe cause I had a feeling that the Sharps get all the publicity and a Highwall doesn't.I always wanted a Sharps.What barrel length do you suggest?I see a bunch with 28" barrels but kinda discount them as not real BPCR guns.I have it in my mind that the barrel needs to be 30" or 32".Am I wrong?thanks Russ

darkgael · June 8, 2010, 01:38 PM

I swage mine and pp them. I use a Corbin press and a .452 swage die to produce a round nosed bullet with a shoulder like a SWC. It has a cupped base and, pure lead, comes from the die at 480 grains.
They are patched to .459 and seated over 65 grains of FFg Goex with grease cookie (made of two 0.030" wads with 1/8" beewax between them).
I seat these by hand in unsized .45-70 cases for use in my Browning BPCR.
Pete

Jim Watson · June 8, 2010, 03:30 PM

I think the 30" is basic to BPCR. 32" is ok, but the 34" is just awkward and subject to fouling out in the extra length. A friend has one and says he would have it cut off, if it were not so accurate. Most of the 28" I see are hunting type rifles.

I prefer the Highwall, and have a real Winchester .38-55 and a Browning .40-65.

May 23, 2010, 06:28 PM	#1
458winshooter Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Transplanted to Ridgeland,SC Posts: 606	BPCR bullet Does anyone here shoot BPCR?If so what bullet do you use?Do you cast your own?If so what mold is your preferance?Do you use pure lead, wheelweight,or linotype?thanks

May 23, 2010, 09:09 PM	#3
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I just got back from shooting my first BP Creedmoor Match this weekend. Now I've been shooting high power and loading match ammo for HP and 1000 yard shooting for over 30 years, I learned when dealing with BPCR Shooting, you best forget everything you learned about match rifle shooting. BP and Conventional rifle shooting is as differant as night and day. I would recommend you go to a BPCR and talk to the shooters. They had some great ones at this match, One is on the US Creedmoor team, they are more then willing to help. I just cast up a bunch of bullets, stuff the cases with powder, They shot pretty good up to 200 yards. They shot totally differant at 800-1000. Back to the drawing board for me, with my new found, humbling knowledge. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

May 23, 2010, 09:12 PM	#4
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	I cast a 500 grain spire point, paper patched w/ 9lb. onionskin to .458. I also shoot 500 grain round nose Postell-type bullets, with 4 grooves. I load these on 115 grains of Goex 1F, .030 veg. wad and .600 compression. A big grease cookie (almost 1/8") to keep fouling soft in that long barrel. Another .030 veg. wad. Bullets are seated by hand. By the way, I do NOT size my cases anymore. Treat the loaded rounds gently, and they'll be fine. The rifle is a .45-120 Sharps, made by C. Sharps; 30" heavy octagon barrel and LR sights. __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

June 8, 2010, 08:26 AM	#5
458winshooter Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Transplanted to Ridgeland,SC Posts: 606	BPCR match What rifle type is the most prevailant,Sharps,Highwall,Rolling block?Can a lever action be used?How about duplex loads?thanks Russ

June 8, 2010, 09:42 AM	#7
458winshooter Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Transplanted to Ridgeland,SC Posts: 606	questions,questions........ Thanks Jim, I have been looking on gun broker alot at the Sharps but recently I have been smitten by the Highwalls.Maybe cause I had a feeling that the Sharps get all the publicity and a Highwall doesn't.I always wanted a Sharps.What barrel length do you suggest?I see a bunch with 28" barrels but kinda discount them as not real BPCR guns.I have it in my mind that the barrel needs to be 30" or 32".Am I wrong?thanks Russ

May 23, 2010, 07:03 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	I shoot BPCR with a .38-55 and .40-65. Lyman 358674 335 grain is good in my rebored barrel with 15" twist. A stock 18" twist might not stabilize it (but one source says it will.) The Lyman 410663 400 grain Snover is great in .40-65, not much to beat it until you start getting into some of the "NASA" designs. I don't shoot .45-70 but one of the Creedmoor or Postell styles would be good, and the original 500 grain government design nearly always works. If you don't mind paying for a custom mould, Paul Jones makes the best I have seen. I have cast bullets out of 20:1 lead:tin alloy; most BPCR shooters favor that or something a bit softer down to 25:1 or 30:1. A paper patch loader will go as soft as 40:1. I don't know anybody using pure lead, a little tin helps the casting as well as hardening the alloy a bit. I have bought bullets made with antimonial lead and they do ok, but would not use it myself. Wheelweights are inconsistent and linotype is way harder than you want for BPCR.

June 8, 2010, 08:45 AM	#6
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	The 1874 Sharps is the most common, Made in America Shiloh and C. Sharps preferred, Pedersoli the best of the imports. Even though they haven't been made in 10+ years, the Browning BPCR on a modified Highwall action is very popular. There have been a few the same with Winchester markings. Otherwise, real Winchesters and new or old Rolling Blocks are pretty common; along with a few CPA Stevens and Ballards. The C. Sharps 1875 is a good deal, less expensive than their 1874s but just as accurate even though not as pretty. There are a few Remington Hepburns around and I have seen one ever Miller Model F on the Farrow design. There is a Peabody reproduction but I have not seen one in use. An NRA Black Powder Silhouette or Target Rifle must be a single shot. The Silhouette rifle must have an exposed hammer and be of a type available in the 19th century. The Target rifle can be hammerless like an 1878 Sharps Borchardt and even of modern design as long as it shoots a period caliber. No bolt actions allowed, even early ones. There is a separate Cowboy Lever Action Silhouette event. No duplex black over smokeless loads may be used in NRA competition. Only black or Pyrodex can be used for Silhouette, other "substitutes" appear to be allowed in Target shooting. Some of the outlaw matches like The Q will allow duplex or smokeless loads but not many.

June 8, 2010, 01:38 PM	#8
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	BPCR bullets I swage mine and pp them. I use a Corbin press and a .452 swage die to produce a round nosed bullet with a shoulder like a SWC. It has a cupped base and, pure lead, comes from the die at 480 grains. They are patched to .459 and seated over 65 grains of FFg Goex with grease cookie (made of two 0.030" wads with 1/8" beewax between them). I seat these by hand in unsized .45-70 cases for use in my Browning BPCR. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

June 8, 2010, 03:30 PM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	I think the 30" is basic to BPCR. 32" is ok, but the 34" is just awkward and subject to fouling out in the extra length. A friend has one and says he would have it cut off, if it were not so accurate. Most of the 28" I see are hunting type rifles. I prefer the Highwall, and have a real Winchester .38-55 and a Browning .40-65.