Remington Enfields?

Wrothgar · September 29, 2009, 06:21 PM

Just what are these things? They're Enfields (British), but Remington? Who used these?

Pahoo · September 29, 2009, 07:24 PM

1917 Enfields, WW-I standard US GI issue. Made by:

Winchester; Most desireable
Remington; Next
Eddystone; Least desireable

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1917_Enfield_rifle

Be Safe !!!

RJay · September 29, 2009, 07:25 PM

" What are these things"

You need to get out more.
Those are " US Rifle, 30 caliber, Model of 1917", Primary US Rifle of the US Expediency Force in WWI { more Model 17's used than 03 Springfield's }, they are not P17's, no such animal. Long story made very short. British wanted a new rifle and cartridge to replace the old Lee Enfield 303. It was called the Pattern 14. WWI starts and the British realised that they better stick with the Lee Enfield. The US realising that they would need more rifles, rechambed it to 30-06 { 30 Caliber} and three firms built it, Remington UMC, Remington Arms Co, ( Eddystone ) and Winchester. As stated, more Models 1917's were used than the 03 Springfield. Because there was a Pattern 14, some people mistakenly called it the P { for Pattern } 17. Again, no such animal. This is a very short version of a very long story and a lot has been left out , but it does answer your question, "What are those?".

finfanatic · September 29, 2009, 07:33 PM

Lots of Doughboys used them.

During WWI, they could not make enough 1903 SPringfields fast enough, so somebody came up with the bright idea of converting the machines Remington was using to make P15 Enfields in .303 for the British, to .30-06 and turn out a boatload of 1917 "Enfields" for the US Govt.

Remington, Eddystone (a factory in PA Remington purchased), and Winchester made the 1917 rifles, and I think I read there were more of them made than Springfield's during WWI.

I got my Winchester from CMP. It was labeled rack grade but this rifle is beautiful. And shoots like a dream. For $400 I think I got a tremendous bargain.

And no worry about an "Enfield" M1917 being a low-numbered bad heat treatment kabloom rifle.

Oh, I almost forgot. Supposedly the 1917 was the rifle Sgt. Alvin York used in his medal of honor heroics, though you can find those that will dispute that.

James K · September 29, 2009, 09:30 PM

The design originated at the Royal Small Arms Factory, Enfield Lock, as the Pattern 1913 in .276 Enfield, a fat cartridge not to be confused with the U.S. .276 Pedersen. The P.13 held only five rounds, but the large diameter cartridge (base diameter .528") required a large magazine, resulting in the "pregnant" look of the P.13 and its successors.

With the onset of war, the British gave up the idea of a caliber change and modified the rifle to take the standard .303 British and the standard Lee-Enfield clips. The rifle was then called the Pattern 1914 or P.14. Since all the English arms factories were turning out Lee-Enfield (SMLE) rifles, the British contracted with Remington and Winchester to produce the P.14 in the U.S. (Eddystone was operated by Remington.)

As those contracts were winding down, the U.S. entered the war. Knowing of the vast rifle production facilities involved in making the P.14, and also knowing that the two American government rifle factories, Springfield Armory and Rock Island Arsenal, could never make enough Model 1903 rifles for the army that would be needed, the U.S. Army contracted the makers of the P.14 to modify the rifle to use the U.S. .30-'06 cartridge and the M1903 clips. The modified rifle became the U.S. Rifle, Model of 1917.

American soldiers universally called the Model of 1917 the "Enfield" because of its British origin, and to distinguish it from the Model 1903, always called "the Springfield."

Jim

gyvel · September 30, 2009, 03:35 AM

Roughly 1,500,000 or so U.S. M1917 "Enfields" were made during WWI, as opposed to roughly 900,000 Springfields.

RJay · September 30, 2009, 01:52 PM

Now Wrothar, with all this good information, don't you fell just a little foolish, not being able to identify a U S Main battle rifle?

Just joking, the Enfield thing must have confused you.

Pahoo · September 30, 2009, 02:48 PM

Now RJay, don't you fell just a little foolish, talking down to folks that don't know all there is to know about a U S Main battle rifle? Just joking

Be Safe !!!

RJay · September 30, 2009, 04:54 PM

No, not in this case, The poster knows how to use a computer, he may not have a bookcase of references but he could have let his finger do the walking. A question with a very easy answers. So a little chastising is in order, It will make him a better researcher and much more knowledgeable. Besides I wasn't talking down to him, I was just giving him a little prod.

DT Guy · October 1, 2009, 08:01 PM

You mean the OP should have found a gun forum, asked a civil question and hoped some expert enthusiasts could have given more informed answers than wikipedia or ask.com?

Oh, wait......

Larry

MGMorden · October 5, 2009, 02:06 PM

DTGuy: Also, it's kinda funny, but half the time when I do Google something, I'll pull up a forum post from long in the past (that being anything more than 6 months in computer time

) where I get my answer, along with some post telling the person who asked the question that they should have Googled it first. If that person hadn't asked the question then when *I* Googled it there would have been no answer to pop up. All that stuff Google indexes has to come from somewhere

.

Never be afraid to ask a question. The response you get might answer many other people as they find the page much later

.

September 29, 2009, 06:21 PM	#1
Wrothgar Junior member Join Date: January 28, 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 778	Remington Enfields? Just what are these things? They're Enfields (British), but Remington? Who used these?

September 29, 2009, 07:24 PM	#2
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	1917 Enfields, WW-I standard US GI issue. Made by: Winchester; Most desireable Remington; Next Eddystone; Least desireable http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1917_Enfield_rifle Be Safe !!! Last edited by Pahoo; September 29, 2009 at 07:30 PM.

September 29, 2009, 07:33 PM	#4
finfanatic Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2008 Posts: 136	Lots of Doughboys Lots of Doughboys used them. During WWI, they could not make enough 1903 SPringfields fast enough, so somebody came up with the bright idea of converting the machines Remington was using to make P15 Enfields in .303 for the British, to .30-06 and turn out a boatload of 1917 "Enfields" for the US Govt. Remington, Eddystone (a factory in PA Remington purchased), and Winchester made the 1917 rifles, and I think I read there were more of them made than Springfield's during WWI. I got my Winchester from CMP. It was labeled rack grade but this rifle is beautiful. And shoots like a dream. For $400 I think I got a tremendous bargain. And no worry about an "Enfield" M1917 being a low-numbered bad heat treatment kabloom rifle. Oh, I almost forgot. Supposedly the 1917 was the rifle Sgt. Alvin York used in his medal of honor heroics, though you can find those that will dispute that. Last edited by finfanatic; September 29, 2009 at 07:37 PM. Reason: Added the Sgt. York bit

October 1, 2009, 08:01 PM	#10
DT Guy Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2001 Posts: 959	You mean the OP should have found a gun forum, asked a civil question and hoped some expert enthusiasts could have given more informed answers than wikipedia or ask.com? Oh, wait...... Larry __________________ He who fights and runs away had better run pretty damn fast. Government, Anarchy and Chaos

September 29, 2009, 07:25 PM	#3
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	" What are these things" You need to get out more. Those are " US Rifle, 30 caliber, Model of 1917", Primary US Rifle of the US Expediency Force in WWI { more Model 17's used than 03 Springfield's }, they are not P17's, no such animal. Long story made very short. British wanted a new rifle and cartridge to replace the old Lee Enfield 303. It was called the Pattern 14. WWI starts and the British realised that they better stick with the Lee Enfield. The US realising that they would need more rifles, rechambed it to 30-06 { 30 Caliber} and three firms built it, Remington UMC, Remington Arms Co, ( Eddystone ) and Winchester. As stated, more Models 1917's were used than the 03 Springfield. Because there was a Pattern 14, some people mistakenly called it the P { for Pattern } 17. Again, no such animal. This is a very short version of a very long story and a lot has been left out , but it does answer your question, "What are those?".

September 29, 2009, 09:30 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The design originated at the Royal Small Arms Factory, Enfield Lock, as the Pattern 1913 in .276 Enfield, a fat cartridge not to be confused with the U.S. .276 Pedersen. The P.13 held only five rounds, but the large diameter cartridge (base diameter .528") required a large magazine, resulting in the "pregnant" look of the P.13 and its successors. With the onset of war, the British gave up the idea of a caliber change and modified the rifle to take the standard .303 British and the standard Lee-Enfield clips. The rifle was then called the Pattern 1914 or P.14. Since all the English arms factories were turning out Lee-Enfield (SMLE) rifles, the British contracted with Remington and Winchester to produce the P.14 in the U.S. (Eddystone was operated by Remington.) As those contracts were winding down, the U.S. entered the war. Knowing of the vast rifle production facilities involved in making the P.14, and also knowing that the two American government rifle factories, Springfield Armory and Rock Island Arsenal, could never make enough Model 1903 rifles for the army that would be needed, the U.S. Army contracted the makers of the P.14 to modify the rifle to use the U.S. .30-'06 cartridge and the M1903 clips. The modified rifle became the U.S. Rifle, Model of 1917. American soldiers universally called the Model of 1917 the "Enfield" because of its British origin, and to distinguish it from the Model 1903, always called "the Springfield." Jim

September 30, 2009, 03:35 AM	#6
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Roughly 1,500,000 or so U.S. M1917 "Enfields" were made during WWI, as opposed to roughly 900,000 Springfields.

September 30, 2009, 01:52 PM	#7
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	Now Wrothar, with all this good information, don't you fell just a little foolish, not being able to identify a U S Main battle rifle? Just joking, the Enfield thing must have confused you.

September 30, 2009, 02:48 PM	#8
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Now RJay, don't you fell just a little foolish, talking down to folks that don't know all there is to know about a U S Main battle rifle? Just joking Be Safe !!!

September 30, 2009, 04:54 PM	#9
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	No, not in this case, The poster knows how to use a computer, he may not have a bookcase of references but he could have let his finger do the walking. A question with a very easy answers. So a little chastising is in order, It will make him a better researcher and much more knowledgeable. Besides I wasn't talking down to him, I was just giving him a little prod.

October 5, 2009, 02:06 PM	#11
MGMorden Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2006 Posts: 158	DTGuy: Also, it's kinda funny, but half the time when I do Google something, I'll pull up a forum post from long in the past (that being anything more than 6 months in computer time ) where I get my answer, along with some post telling the person who asked the question that they should have Googled it first. If that person hadn't asked the question then when I Googled it there would have been no answer to pop up. All that stuff Google indexes has to come from somewhere . Never be afraid to ask a question. The response you get might answer many other people as they find the page much later .