Powder Shapes

RickV · August 24, 2009, 04:30 AM

Does anyone know if there is somewhere I can find a listing of the all Smokeless Powderss shapes? I am particularly interested in the powders that have a "ball" shape. I use a Lee auto disk and know that ball powders are the best for metering with it and would like to know which powders have this shape.

Nightowl · August 24, 2009, 04:59 AM

RickV, there are so many different powders that all have different characteristics and properties and all yield different results. I use the Lyman Reloading Handbook (49th Edition) that has an entire chapter devoted to powders complete with data, pictures, etc. It also has loads of other valuable data at your disposal. There are also other reloading guides available that contain info on powders. The specific info that you are looking for may be available on the Internet if you visit each powder manufacturer's web site, although a book has all the information right at your fingertips.

rwilson452 · August 24, 2009, 05:33 AM

'Ball" powders may also be called spherical powders.

Assuming your loading for pistol, my go to powder is W231.

jimkim · August 24, 2009, 06:25 AM

Look in your manual, the description should be in the front.

RickV · August 24, 2009, 06:51 AM

I use W231, Titegroup, Power Pistol & 2400. Just curious as to what other powders have the same shape (round/sperical). I read posts where people talk about this or that powder being good for a certain caliber and want to know the shape of said powders. I have the Lee 2nd edition and Speer #14 and don't remember seeing anything in them. I will "Peruse"

them when I get home tonight to make sure.

Sport45 · August 24, 2009, 07:28 AM

You can also check out the websites for the powder companies. They often give descriptions of their powders.

Sevens · August 24, 2009, 08:35 AM

I, too would like to see a single gathering place for listing of powder types and even decent pictures.

One thing I'd like to add is that as good as ball (spherical) powders can be to work with, others work well too.

A good example? Two that you listed... Titegroup and Power Pistol. These aren't ball powders... they are flake powders. Minced up nicely-- they meter well!

A couple more actual ball powders used for handgun that you might investigate: Accurate powders... like #2, #5, #7. (#9, yes? I don't know!)

**Mike Irwin** · August 24, 2009, 08:39 AM

All Winchester and Accurate Arms powders are, to the best of my knowledge, are ball powders.

I think all of Alliant's powders are flake powders, but some of the newer ones may not be.

Jim Watson · August 24, 2009, 08:46 AM

Ball Powder describes the manufacturing process, not the finished shape.
Win 231 is a Ball powder but the round granules coming out of the dryer are rolled flat as part of the burn rate control process. They are still a good shape and size for precise measuring, though.

"Spherical Powder" is the Hodgdon trademark for ball process powder they get from Winchester/Olin/St Marks because "Ball Powder" is a Winchester trademark.

Ramshot calls their ball process powders from Belgium "spherical shaped" and Accurate Arms calls their ball process powders from all over "ball propellants" so as to not infringe on Winchester or Hodgdon trademarks.

By manufacturing process, not appearance, Titegroup is a ball powder, Power Pistol is not, it is a short extrusion or thick flake, depending on how you want to look at it. 2400 is an extruded powder. AA #2, 5, 7, and 9 are ball process.

**Mike Irwin** · August 24, 2009, 08:55 AM

Yep, you're absolutely correct about the shape of ball powders, Jim.

But, just about anything made to the ball process will meter far better than flake powders because the fininshed granules, whether they're spherical or flattened, are a lot smaller than, say, Unique or Red Dot.

WW296 is a combination of spherical and flattened spheres, but it's so darned fine that it's like dust.

RickV · August 24, 2009, 08:57 AM

I guess the bottom line is I know that the powders I mentioned above meter good in my Pro Auto Disk but, I have read on here and other sites that some powders ie Unique do not meter quite so well in the Pro Auto Disk (larger than normal variations in charge rates). So maybe what I should have asked to begin with was for opinions of pistol powders that meter well thru the Auto Disks. With some of the responses I have recieved so far it apprears that #2, #5, #7 and possibly #9 would meter well also. I load 38spl, 357 mag, 9mm, 40 SW and 45acp.

I guess with my old eyes

W231, Power Pistol and 2400 seem round to me, I guess the small size of the granules makes them appear that way.

**Mike Irwin** · August 24, 2009, 09:03 AM

The powders that I've found that meter well in the Lee, based on my own experience:

WW 231

WW 296

H110

AA 7

Clays

Trail Boss -- This one is a unique case. The granules are pretty flat and look like little donuts. But, it meters EXTREMELY well.

The major problem with some of these powders is that they are so fine that they tend to leak through my Lee. I'm sure that rebuilding it would help...

Jim Watson · August 24, 2009, 09:21 AM

The Vihtavuori powders are extruded but most of them are small enough granulations that they meter well.

Plain old Bullseye ain't bad. Its small irregular flakes meter surprisingly well and it gives uniform velocity in light loads that will cause a ball powder's SD to go wild. I haven't used it in years, but it is going to be a shootout between it and Solo 1000 and Clays when the Dillon runs out of 700X. (700X is a large flake that does not measure well in pistol charges. I put up with it for a long time because I keep it for 12 gauge and there is always some on hand. But I have finally realized that it is possible to simplify too much.)

**Mike Irwin** · August 24, 2009, 09:28 AM

I found the same thing with Red Dot.

I use it for my 12 gauge trap loads.

I tried it in 9mm and .38 Special.

It didn't meter worth a damn, and while it produced some turbo accurate ammo, it was just filthy.

Blue Dot and Unique also don't meter well through volumetric measures.

jimkim · August 24, 2009, 09:48 PM

Sorry, my newest manual is Lyman 49. It has the descriptions in it. My old manuals also have descriptions in them. Speer 9(pages 42-43), Speer 10(pages 44-45), and Speer 11(pages 38-39). My Hornady manual doesn't seem to have the info in it and I haven't checked my Sierra manual yet. Look in your table of contents under Components. Find "Powders". It should be in that section. My manuals all have four pictures of the different types of powder with the list of powders under them. Check page 45 in Speer 14 to see if there is anything written under the pictures.

I heard from Speer this afternoon. They said they no longer give descriptions of the powders. Well I guess you could always buy a Lyman manual.

August 24, 2009, 05:33 AM	#3
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	'Ball" powders may also be called spherical powders. Assuming your loading for pistol, my go to powder is W231. __________________ USNRET '61-'81

August 24, 2009, 06:25 AM	#4
jimkim Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Location: middle GA Posts: 326	Look in your manual, the description should be in the front. __________________ Jan. 4, 2007 gasoline $2.10 gal....HMMM?

August 24, 2009, 07:28 AM	#6
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	You can also check out the websites for the powder companies. They often give descriptions of their powders. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

August 24, 2009, 08:39 AM	#8
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	All Winchester and Accurate Arms powders are, to the best of my knowledge, are ball powders. I think all of Alliant's powders are flake powders, but some of the newer ones may not be. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 24, 2009, 08:55 AM	#10
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Yep, you're absolutely correct about the shape of ball powders, Jim. But, just about anything made to the ball process will meter far better than flake powders because the fininshed granules, whether they're spherical or flattened, are a lot smaller than, say, Unique or Red Dot. WW296 is a combination of spherical and flattened spheres, but it's so darned fine that it's like dust. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 24, 2009, 04:30 AM	#1
RickV Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2008 Location: North Florida Posts: 172	Powder Shapes Does anyone know if there is somewhere I can find a listing of the all Smokeless Powderss shapes? I am particularly interested in the powders that have a "ball" shape. I use a Lee auto disk and know that ball powders are the best for metering with it and would like to know which powders have this shape.

August 24, 2009, 04:59 AM	#2
Nightowl Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2009 Location: New England Posts: 113	RickV, there are so many different powders that all have different characteristics and properties and all yield different results. I use the Lyman Reloading Handbook (49th Edition) that has an entire chapter devoted to powders complete with data, pictures, etc. It also has loads of other valuable data at your disposal. There are also other reloading guides available that contain info on powders. The specific info that you are looking for may be available on the Internet if you visit each powder manufacturer's web site, although a book has all the information right at your fingertips. __________________ Nightowl NRA Life Member & GOAL Supporter Proud Veteran Always - Safety First!

August 24, 2009, 06:51 AM	#5
RickV Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2008 Location: North Florida Posts: 172	I use W231, Titegroup, Power Pistol & 2400. Just curious as to what other powders have the same shape (round/sperical). I read posts where people talk about this or that powder being good for a certain caliber and want to know the shape of said powders. I have the Lee 2nd edition and Speer #14 and don't remember seeing anything in them. I will "Peruse" them when I get home tonight to make sure.

August 24, 2009, 08:35 AM	#7
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I, too would like to see a single gathering place for listing of powder types and even decent pictures. One thing I'd like to add is that as good as ball (spherical) powders can be to work with, others work well too. A good example? Two that you listed... Titegroup and Power Pistol. These aren't ball powders... they are flake powders. Minced up nicely-- they meter well! A couple more actual ball powders used for handgun that you might investigate: Accurate powders... like #2, #5, #7. (#9, yes? I don't know!) __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 24, 2009, 08:46 AM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Ball Powder describes the manufacturing process, not the finished shape. Win 231 is a Ball powder but the round granules coming out of the dryer are rolled flat as part of the burn rate control process. They are still a good shape and size for precise measuring, though. "Spherical Powder" is the Hodgdon trademark for ball process powder they get from Winchester/Olin/St Marks because "Ball Powder" is a Winchester trademark. Ramshot calls their ball process powders from Belgium "spherical shaped" and Accurate Arms calls their ball process powders from all over "ball propellants" so as to not infringe on Winchester or Hodgdon trademarks. By manufacturing process, not appearance, Titegroup is a ball powder, Power Pistol is not, it is a short extrusion or thick flake, depending on how you want to look at it. 2400 is an extruded powder. AA #2, 5, 7, and 9 are ball process.

August 24, 2009, 08:57 AM	#11
RickV Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2008 Location: North Florida Posts: 172	I guess the bottom line is I know that the powders I mentioned above meter good in my Pro Auto Disk but, I have read on here and other sites that some powders ie Unique do not meter quite so well in the Pro Auto Disk (larger than normal variations in charge rates). So maybe what I should have asked to begin with was for opinions of pistol powders that meter well thru the Auto Disks. With some of the responses I have recieved so far it apprears that #2, #5, #7 and possibly #9 would meter well also. I load 38spl, 357 mag, 9mm, 40 SW and 45acp. I guess with my old eyes W231, Power Pistol and 2400 seem round to me, I guess the small size of the granules makes them appear that way.

August 24, 2009, 09:03 AM	#12
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	The powders that I've found that meter well in the Lee, based on my own experience: WW 231 WW 296 H110 AA 7 Clays Trail Boss -- This one is a unique case. The granules are pretty flat and look like little donuts. But, it meters EXTREMELY well. The major problem with some of these powders is that they are so fine that they tend to leak through my Lee. I'm sure that rebuilding it would help... __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 24, 2009, 09:21 AM	#13
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	The Vihtavuori powders are extruded but most of them are small enough granulations that they meter well. Plain old Bullseye ain't bad. Its small irregular flakes meter surprisingly well and it gives uniform velocity in light loads that will cause a ball powder's SD to go wild. I haven't used it in years, but it is going to be a shootout between it and Solo 1000 and Clays when the Dillon runs out of 700X. (700X is a large flake that does not measure well in pistol charges. I put up with it for a long time because I keep it for 12 gauge and there is always some on hand. But I have finally realized that it is possible to simplify too much.)

August 24, 2009, 09:28 AM	#14
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	I found the same thing with Red Dot. I use it for my 12 gauge trap loads. I tried it in 9mm and .38 Special. It didn't meter worth a damn, and while it produced some turbo accurate ammo, it was just filthy. Blue Dot and Unique also don't meter well through volumetric measures. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 24, 2009, 09:48 PM	#15
jimkim Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Location: middle GA Posts: 326	Sorry, my newest manual is Lyman 49. It has the descriptions in it. My old manuals also have descriptions in them. Speer 9(pages 42-43), Speer 10(pages 44-45), and Speer 11(pages 38-39). My Hornady manual doesn't seem to have the info in it and I haven't checked my Sierra manual yet. Look in your table of contents under Components. Find "Powders". It should be in that section. My manuals all have four pictures of the different types of powder with the list of powders under them. Check page 45 in Speer 14 to see if there is anything written under the pictures. I heard from Speer this afternoon. They said they no longer give descriptions of the powders. Well I guess you could always buy a Lyman manual. __________________ Jan. 4, 2007 gasoline $2.10 gal....HMMM? Last edited by jimkim; August 26, 2009 at 10:26 PM.