Accurate Powder Measures? Bogus!?

[Slamfire]

I have this ancient Bonanza powder measure. It has a tall reservoir, takes almost a pound of powder in the thing. You can fill a lot of cartridges before having to refill. Over the years I noticed that charge weights vary depending on powder height. It can be as much as a half a grain between a full column and an almost empty column. If I make an attempt to keep the powder column above the middle mark, charge weights vary maybe tenth of a grain, two tenths of a grain.

Then I acquired two more measures: The Lyman 550 in the background and a Redding “benchrest” measure.

Well the Lyman and Redding will throw well, and I think the reason is the short reservoirs. They simply reduced the measure capacity knowing that throw weight varies depending on reservoir height. However, these measures require frequent filling.

I have a friend with a Harrell’s. He claims it throws H4895 no better than anyone else's powder measure but costs several times more. He had a cheap Lee measure, claimed it threw very well.

Manufacturers play tricks with their products, like the short reservoir, to give the impression that there is something intrinsically better to their measure, but they really have not changed gravity in any significant fashion.

I am getting to be of the opinion that no powder measure is all that more accurate than any other powder measure, and that the major differences between measures is advertizing and cost.

[Conservadude]

Yes, but....

Isn't the whole reason for the baffles inside the powder measure to control the height/weight/settling of the powder in the lowest portion of the tube (where the measure will come from)? A friend of mine has a powder measure, and he's used several, that he says really does a fine job ...but I need to ask him which one it is again (bad memory on my part.) He seemed to think that the baffles were key, and he said that his powder measure was very consistent (even with extruded longer-grain stuff). Got me curious now...

Brian

[snuffy]

Use a powder baffle if you're concerned about varying columns of powder changing the set throw weight. The baffle keeps the main column from affecting the pressure on the cavity in the drum, which causes the powder to pack into the cavity.

[Unclenick]

And, the cheap Lee flows powder sideways to reduce the effect of powder columns, thereby having the equivalent of an internal baffle. Another measure that does that is the Quick Measure which has the unique quality that it doesn't cut stick grains at all. I have one of these, and it is more trouble to set up than a standard measure, but works with stick powders as claimed.

To improve your old measure, you can download my roll-your-own baffle templates and instructions in .PDF format from the Shooters Forum here. I recommend you try the double baffle illustrated at the end of the instructions for best results.

[TexasSeaRay]

I've used the inexpensive Lee powder measure for over twenty years. It's mounted on my reloading bench (never used one mounted on a press). Once I have it set and have verified the output, I have never had a variance of more than a quarter of a grain (verified with electronic scales) during the entire reloading process for that particular session.

It is kind of a pain in the butt to get set in terms of output, but once set, it's the most stable powder throwing device I've ever used.

I do keep it at least half full at all times, however.

Jeff

[Slamfire]

If you look, there is a "home made" baffle in the Bonanza measure. The measure came without a baffle, or maybe I did not know what it was and tossed it out.

I have played moving that baffle up and down the reservoir. I think the main effect is psychological.

The Redding has a baffle, the Lyman does not. And my Dillion 550 B powder measure has a baffle. So I am 50/50 on measures with baffles. And 100% uncertain whether they do anything.

[brickeyee]

"I have never had a variance of more than a quarter of a grain"

That is actually rather poor.
A uniflow with a baffel and ball powder (or smaller granules) should routinely do +/- 0.1 grains.

[30Cal]

I have a Harrell and like it the best simply because I can clickity-click in my setting and away we go.

I think charge weight consistancy is incredibly overrated. Many people make the claim that it's paramount to accuracy when in fact, it merely plays a minor role (at best).

[Unclenick]

Slamfire,

Try the double baffles at 90° angles.

[BigJimP]

I understand your frustration - but I can tell you that I get much better consistency than that from a Dillon 650 powder measure - of less than 0.1 grain.

I think your problem might have something to do with static / so I store a couple of the "anti static dryer sheets" from the wife's laundry room into my powder cannister / I also wipe the outside of the plastic powder storage container with the dryer sheets / and I wipe down the powder measure on the press with the dryer sheets.

I don't frankly know if the 650 powder measure is any different than the 550 or not - but if it isn't - consistency is possible with it.

The powder check station on the 650 - is worth every penny as well - and if its properly adjusted, and depending on the powder used - it will detect a change as small as 0.1 grain ( even using a small volume powder like Hodgdon Titegroup in a 9mm ).

I would do some work to control the static, if you aren't already / maybe investigate if there is some movement in your loading bench as you cycle the press / and get to the bottom of this - because on loads like Hodgdon Titegroup for 9mm ( min is 4.1 grains - and max is 4.4 grains ) with my personal target at 4.3 grains ) and varying even 0.1 grain is too much variation - so I'd recommend not giving up. Talk to the guys at Dillon, if you haven't, since you have a 550 - there are a lot of little adjustments ( like the blue nut at the bottom of the actuator rod on the 650 powder measure, if its too far down the rod, the bar will not travel its full length causing all kinds of variation ) ... I've done it and felt a little foolish .

[The Lovemaster]

I get good consistency without a baffle. Certainly good enough for pistol ammo. I used to check it every ten rounds, now I do it every twenty and am likely going to increase that. Not enough variation to worry about. For rifle loads that I want to be accurate, I set the charge a little low and use a trickler and scale to weigh each charge.

[amamnn]

I've used a lot of measures too, from the Lee auto disk, both regular and pro, plus the Lee perfect powder measure, to the RCBS micro pro adjustable baffled la-de-da green monster, ending with a Harrell Brothers -arm and leg and first born child- expensive unit.

What beats them all hands down-- no competition-- the old ones are not even close for reliability, repeatability, and speed--- are the digital scale dispenser combinations. I've used the RCBS version that belongs to a friend. I own the PACT. Two more people whose opinions I respect own the Lyman. Whichever one is on sale and you can get for the least money is the best one of the three at the moment. They ALL put the other old volumetric type measures in the shade. The only time I use my Harrell's now is if I load on the tailgate at the match and I never do that anymore; I'm keeping it along with my old BB scale in case of a power failure when I just HAVE to load some cases.

[KeithB78]

My Dillon measure is very accurate and doesn't change right down to the baffle.

[TexasSeaRay]

That is actually rather poor.
A uniflow with a baffel and ball powder (or smaller granules) should routinely do +/- 0.1 grains.

Ooops. Bigtime mistake on my part. Me and converting to decimals don't always get along.

What's a quarter of a tenth of a grain? That's what the electric scale showed on a variance a few times, and that was with a flake powder.

Jeff

[kjshank1]

thanks unclenick, i just made a baffle for my lee powder measure, its the cheap one they send with the anniversary kit. It used to vary .7 grains if i filled it up. I just tried it and out of 5 throws, 4 were within .1 grain & one was off by .1 grain. I've been thinking about making one for a while, but when I read that pdf, I had to try it.

[Martyn4802]

All of the well made powder measures will throw charges about the same. Technique is the most important thing for consistency. Technique is not related to the measure, but to the operator.
The reason for buying something like a Harrell's measure is not that it is any more accurate, or consistent, than any other measure. You buy a Harrell's, or any other high end measure, for repeatability. You can record measure settings with a Harrell and return to that setting with confidence that the measure will repeat the charge.
Heck, you can make your own hand held measure out of an old brass case that will be as accurate as any measure sold by reloading tool makers.
Technique is the answer, and consistency from one throw to the next delivers accuracy, with any of the measures available.

Martyn

[Jim Watson]

I have several measures that are all accurate enough for the use they get, except that I never did get any sort of accuracy or repeatability out of the Lee. I use Ball powder whenever possible to eliminate worries about charge uniformity.

I have a PACT dispenser set, the scale and dispenser bought years apart. It works fine and I load target rifle ammunition with it. A friend got one and was very unsatisfied, sent it back for refund. It would drift by up to four grains over an hour's use. No doubt PACT would have tinkered with it or replaced it, but his confidence was shattered. I think they are running at the limit of performance for consumer electronics and a step up in quality would cost a lot of money.

[Alleykat]

What's a quarter of a tenth of a grain? That's what the electric scale showed on a variance a few times, and that was with a flake powder.

Kind of reminds me of those "Texas groups" I see on the internet all the time.

[Crosshair]

I use a Lee Auto Disk for almost all of my powder needs. Very consistent measure, not to mention repeatable. Just slap in the correct disc combination, weigh to confirm the charge, and load away.

[TexasSeaRay]

Kind of reminds me of those "Texas groups" I see on the internet all the time

I'll be fighting the metric system until the day I die. Hell, I can barely handle inches, feet, yards, let alone grains to grams to kilos to ounces (liquid or solid???) to half-a-stock-tank-full to just a dab a this and a pinch of that.

Jeff

[Unclenick]

TexasSeaRay,

You are talking about 0.025 grains. Electronic reloading scales made specifically for the purpose never resolve more than 0.1 grains, except the Acculab sold by Sinclair, which displays 0.02 grain resolution. Common lab scales will resolve 0.001 grams, which equals about 0.015 grains. I don't know which electronic scale you use?


Jim,

Regarding the PACT dispenser, the scales are reported very stable by some and very drift prone by others. The one I recently got will sit on zero very nicely, but the amplifier calibration drifts. If I put the lighter check weight on and off of it over and over again, the reading gradually gets higher by a grain. I have intentionally let it stabilize for hours, and exercised it with the heavier check weight to see if there is load cell stress relieving during use, but I don't see that. If there were, it should show up as hysteresis, causing the zero to be off when I remove the weight, but that doesn't happen. It is actual input amplifier gain drift. I'm going to return my scale (as far as I can tell, the dispenser is doing what the scale tells it). They should be able to correct it. I note that their web site now claims full temperature compensation. Mine does not have that, so an upgrade may be in order?


Kjshank1,

Glad the baffle worked for you, too. My Lee's have had this add-on for some time. I put the double arrangement in all my powder hoppers now as a matter of routine, without even checking.

By the way, which cutout did you wind up using for yours? Not the size, but which long edge profile for passing the powder?

[bhawkeye]

Unclenick,
Thanks for the good tips & the powder baffle templates. I will definately try them out.