OC vs CCW, when and where?

[Nordeste]

Guess this is right sub-forum to make this question.

Starting from the beginning, this is a question asked from a southern european guy who is a LEO, but has his bit of travelling and has shared a bit of time working alongside Americans. However, this issue never came up in any conversation we've had.

Even though I -seriously- envy your regulations in whatever is related to firearms ownership, use of force, self defence and so on, it somehows surprises me the fact that it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a lot of the States in the Union. I'm not against it, just let me make this clear. I'm just wondering that, from the point of view of someone who is so unfamiliar with such a practice (and that, shame on me, hasn't ever been to the US... yet). When, and where, it is acceptable to openly carry a firearm. I remember a conversation with an American cop who told me something like "concealed carry is more socially acceptable". The "when" and "where" comes from the fact that, at least on TV, you don't see people openly carrying a firearm in big cities such as NY, LA, and my guess is that it might be more or less common in rural areas or small towns, isn't it?.

Besides, I read (from your comments) that it is not allowed to CCW in certain places, like restaurants, shopping malls (guess banks too) etc. Therefore, open carry isn't, too.

Looking forward to having your inputs and satisfy my curiosity.

[JACK308]

The reason you dont see people in citys like NYC and LA thats because they cant! like in new york city you want to carry your either a cop,a judge or a well conected person or you just carry and dont worry about it like most of the THUGS do in the bronx and bklyn and so on.I live in Wisconsin and as soon as Nov.1st comes I will get my CCW And since the is America we have an old document the bill of rights that give us the 2nd Admement ulike over seas. And because crime are not punished quickly here some law makers dont like that freedom of the bill of rights gives us so they BLAME a gun that CANT MOVE by itself.

[PawPaw]

The United States is a big place. What is acceptable in NYC or Los Angeles is very different from what is acceptable in my home town in Louisiana.

In Louisiana, open carry is perfectly legal, while concealed carry requires a permit. This is based on the ancient laws that codified the belief that honest men carried their arms openly, while only criminals needed to conceal their firearms. So we have a great tradition of open carry, while concealed carry is something of a new experience for us.

In this state (and every state is different, to an extent), it is illegal to carry a concealed firearm in a bar or casino, although the law is very specific to concealed carry. The way I read the law, it might be legal to openly carry a firearm in those places, because concealed carry is restricted and open carry is not discussed.

So, while we're traveling across our great country, we have to worry about 50 different sets of laws that are continually changing.

[JN01]

Besides, I read (from your comments) that it is not allowed to CCW in certain places, like restaurants, shopping malls (guess banks too) etc. Therefore, open carry isn't, too.

Each state has its own rules on where you can and can't carry. Most of the areas you listed aren't generally prohibited, but most states allow businesses to post a sign prohibiting weapons on their property. Carrying in those posted areas is a criminal offense in some states, a civil offense in others. Until recently, the state of Virginia required that anyone entering an establishment that served alcohol with a firearm HAD to carry it openly, even if you had a concealed carry permit.

Generally, open carry has been much more accepted in the Western US and less populous areas. Since many states do not have laws that specifically prohibit open carry (unlike concealed carry which is generally regulated) there has been a movement in recent years to make open carry more accepted across the nation.

[Nordeste]

So, you see. For me, what's surprising is what you say about open carry. But now, once it is explained that there's a long tradition of open carry (probably older that the country itself), it all makes sense.

Over here, if someone who is concealed carrying a weapong "prints" it, eyebrows will be raised and people will be uncomfortable. He or she will be looked upon so as to find out if he/she looks like a cop, or it makes sense to call the cops and make them find out. Just figure out about open carry. You'd be stopped by the cops at gunpoint straight away. Even hunting firearms like rifles and shotguns have to be carried in cases, disassembled and with the ammo in a separate container. Handgun permits are only granted under very specific circumstances and are looked upon thoroughly. This is no gun friendly country.

[raimius]

It is an interesting mix, in the US. In some places (especially rural/western areas), open carry isn't too much of an issue. In other places, open carry is illegal or unusual enough that people will call the police. I'll give a couple examples. In a small town in Wyoming, people might not care if you had a holstered pistol (provided you did not appear to be looking for trouble). In Chicago, you would be arrested on the spot and prosecuted. In Colorado Springs, Colorado, people might look at you funny.

[Mr. James]

Nordeste,

If I may, how common is concealed carry in Spain, and how easy is it to obtain a concealed carry permit? I live in the great Old Dominion (Virginia), where open carry is perfectly legal. I often avail myself of that opportunity. I also have a Virginia concealed handgun license, which means I'm permitted to carry concealed. If I print, or my shirt rides up, or my cover garment snags on a door knob and someone sees my sidearm, no problem.

The police here have been, by now, well schooled on the actual laws here. We had some problems with officers drawing weapons on perfectly law-abiding citizens. Now, the police are actually educating the public who don't understand the laws here.

[Uncle Buck]

Nordeste:

I openly carry sometimes here in Missouri. I live and farm in the country. I use the gun primarily against critters that threaten my livestock. There have been times that I have forgotten I have my gun with me and have had to run in to town to pick up some supplies or get gas. I have never had anyone say anything. You do not see it often, but once in awhile, us open carry folks leave the farm.

In the fall, during our hunting season, you see trucks and cars with guns (Rifles/shotguns) all over the place. No one really bats an eye. When I was a kid, we used to carry rifles and shotguns in our trucks and cars to school. Again, nothing was ever said and no one played around with them.

I used to open carry quite a bit a few years ago in the winter when I ran a trap line. With all the gear I was packing and critters I was hauling out of the woods, a rifle got in the way. A small .22 LR revolver was great for the job. Again, no one batted an eye.

We have cities where I would not open carry, even though it is legal in Missouri to do so. Kansas City and St. Louis are just too much hassle.

[hermannr]

Nordeste:

I live in North Central Washington State, Open Carry (OC) does not need a license, Concealed Carry (CC) does. As another person stated, and as I learned many years ago (I'm retired) Law Enforcement and honest people OC, criminals hide their weapons.

I also have a permit to CC for when the weather is bad and I have a coat on. OC has fallen out of practice in a lot of areas, so when you go to the city sometimes people can get a bit concerned about a firearm on your hip.

I don't worry about it, I have been OCing for over 40 years, never had a problem.

[Standing Wolf]

In Colorado Springs, Colorado, people might look at you funny.

Hah! I live on the outskirts of Colorado Springs. I carry openly a third or half the time. Someone notices about once a year. I receive an occasional pure curiosity question, but haven't ever received a hostile or skeptical remark.

[Nordeste]

Thanks for your kind answers, gentlemen. Now it makes perfect sense, provided that you are willing to understand it, which is my case. Particularly that "honest people OC carry" thing. It explains it all.

Mr. James, as a, say, "regular" civilian, there is no way you can own a handgun in Spain for self defence purposes. The only exceptions are people who might need it due to professional/personal reasons. This could be, for example, judges/prosecutors, jewellers, private investigators/licenced bodyguards or people who is under threat by a terrorist organization (businessmen blackmailed by the basque separatists, for example), gun shop owners, etc. Every application is thoroughly looked into and conditions will apply on when and where they can carry. The only way you can own a handgun, outside of this, would be if you apply for an "F Type" (as it's called here) licence. It's just for sporting (range, IPSC) purposes and you won't be entitled to carry the weapon on you. At home it has to be stored in an standardized locker, fixed to the wall. Whenever you transport it, it has to be in its case, unloaded, magazine out, ammo in a separate container and if driving, it has to be in the boot of the car. They can even tell you what itineraries you have to follow from the range/s to your place.

As for hunters, similar conditions apply. And don't think farmers are the exception. You cannot carry a shotgun/rifle around in your property, unless part -or all- of it is a legally authorized hunting area, and if so, don't go around with your shotgun if it's not hunting season, or you'll get your guns withdrawn (and a serious fine). If you have an air gun, bow, crossbow, etc... use it at a range. Do it in your property, have someone complaining (neighbour, someone walking along and watching you, etc... and you'll probably have the cops finding out) and you'll see. It's as stupid as that.

I could go on, but I wouldn't wanna cause you guys to lose the will to live reading disgraces , but put it in short, ANYTHING that can be harmful is illegal to carry in this country, exception made of approved pepper sprays. Looks like they want to discourage people to carry dangerous objects on the streets, but what happens is that law-abiding citizens do not carry those objects because it's illegal. Then, bad guys do carry them (why should they care about breaking the law?) and honest citizens are defenseless unless the cops are present. And bad guys tend to make sure there are no cops around before doing anything illegal, don't they?.

It's really bad, since the people who make the regulations will never understand this. Their a**es are in safe havens, with properly trained people making sure they're safe.

[kraigwy]

I conceal carry all the time.

The only time I open carry is at a pistol competition or practicing for pistol competition.

[vranasaurus]

While I could open carry in many places I just choose not to so I don't have to deal with the possibility of being hassled.

I feel for many Europeans that the majority have enacted the firearms laws that you have. James Madison, among others, was extremely concerned about the tyranny of the majority. Just because the majority of the people want something doesn't make it right.

When you do make it to the States make sure and let everyone her know because I am sure there are members of this community who would love to take you to the range. We have all kinds of fun toys over here.

You'll find that American gun owners, by and large, love to share the sport with others.

[Nordeste]

Vranasaurus, you bet that whenever I hit the States, I'll let you guys know. It would be a great pleasure to share a shooting day with any of you guys.

As for the rest, just think about something. The freedom you enjoy in the U.S., in whatever is related to firearms, and in some other aspects, is quite related to how the country itself was founded (and this is just my point of view). It's a -relatively speaking- young country. A lot of people who was in the search of the chance of their lives migrated there, settled there, and there was a huge territory to be discovered, lots of opportunities to take advantage from... and there were a lot of hazards to be faced. You needed firearms if you wanted your family to stay safe. Kids grew up learning how to handle rifles and revolvers, and I think that evolved in the fine gun culture you've got by now. Even your Constitution states your right to have firearms to defend yourselves. Nothing of that happens/happened here.

Besides, put aside your civil war (correct me if I'm wrong, please) and perhaps the conflict with Mexico, there have been no other conflict fought on your own soil. In the European case, we've fought each other countless times and had civil wars every now and then. In Spain, the last one was during last century (1936-1939) left over a million dead and a big trauma in the country's collective memory. These things have undoubtedly influenced the current firearms regulations in both cases... and again, this is just my point of view on the matter.

Anyway, I agree with your point about the rule of the majority and what, and what not, is fair. The tide is changing, and now we have a kind of criminality we didn't use to have. Violent and armed. Foreign in most cases. And the fact is that anyone thinking about breaking into a house, would think it twice if they were unsure of what to expect inside. The possibility of being shot as they broke into would surely discourage most of them, but here, they know that is most unlikely.

Kind regards