Firearms in cabins -- re the two escapees

willr · June 29, 2015, 11:04 AM

We've understood from news reports that the two escapees in NY obtained firearms from unoccupied cabins in the forest. Having owned a cabin in a National Forest some years ago, it is beyond my understanding that anyone would leave firearms in an unoccupied cabin. Of course, we were broken into several times while we owned it. Hence learned not to leave anything of value there while we were gone. Can anyone justify what happened in NY?
willr

g.willikers · June 29, 2015, 11:46 AM

It's understandable for folks to leave things in their hunting or retreat cabins.
Maybe to have a spare weapon during hunting season for guests, or as a backup in case their main gun becomes disabled.
Or to have a weapon in place in case of emergency.
Obviously not the best of ideas in this instance.
Having them locked up and hidden would have been better, though.

Sparks1957 · June 29, 2015, 11:59 AM

My gal and I were talking about this yesterday, and both of us found it astonishing that someone would be so irresponsible as to leave guns in a cabin in the woods like that. Ammo, maybe, but the guns themselves? It's practically asking for trouble.

Colt46 · June 29, 2015, 01:06 PM

While we don't leave firearms in it(there have been a few break ins over the years)how is it my responsibility to keep other people from stealing my property?

dyl · June 29, 2015, 02:06 PM

"how is it my responsibility to keep others from stealing your property"

I think what you're getting at is that a thief or robber is the one to blame, as they are the ones who went out of their way to commit a crime. Yes, you're correct. You are not a criminal's parent or guardian and shouldn't be held responsible for their actions unless you knowingly aid someone commit a crime.

But if you take your statement literally, it's always been our responsibility, or choice. If you don't want your property stolen. I mean, no one else would do that for you. If you don't care that much, you don't have to lock things away. If you hire a company to provide security for your house it becomes their responsibility... but you're still showing you are being responsible by hiring them. I bet you lock your doors, so I don't think that's what you meant

Anything else you do on top is out of being considerate and gracious. Wouldn't want to tempt others from doing something even if they *know* they're not supposed to.

At the same time we do see people held responsible for others' actions. Doctors get bad reputations because some patients lie then abuse/sell the narcotics they are prescribed. Luckygunner was sued (it failed) because someone wanted to blame them for selling ammo to a future mass shooter.

Sparks1957 · June 29, 2015, 02:07 PM

Quote:

how is it my responsibility to keep other people from stealing my property?

It's not. I agree with you on that. However, studying human behavior for 58 years has taught me that many people cannot be trusted to respect my property. It follows that I have a responsibility to not make theft of my property easy for them, or something I might regret if a weapon falls into the wrong hands.

kilimanjaro · June 29, 2015, 03:37 PM

I guess it's just as irresponsible to go out shopping for the day and leave your guns in your house, waiting to be stolen.

Or park your car in your driveway at night, instead of in the garage.

Or carry more than one credit card or a blank check in your wallet, just in case you need them.

g.willikers · June 29, 2015, 04:20 PM

No one is suggesting that the prison is at fault for letting them escape, are they?

Skans · June 29, 2015, 05:11 PM

I'm with those that see nothing wrong with keeping a firearm stored in a cabin that they own on their land that they pay taxes on. I'm assuming that the cabin itself can be locked up somehow. How is this different than keeping a firearm at hidden away at my home when I go on vacation? Are we going to mandate that EVERYONE who owns a firearm must have a gun safe with a rating of XYZ?

Because, that's what folks are really saying.

skizzums · June 29, 2015, 05:24 PM

If I was fortunate to own a vacation home, I would likely keep a couple arms there, just in case something happened to my main residence. But, they would be hidden in a false stair or shelf or something similar. Lots of cool options for hiding guns, especially in a wood cabin.

Your house could just as likely get broken into as a rarely used cabin, so I don't see why there would be an exclusion to keeping firearms there.

jmr40 · June 29, 2015, 05:29 PM

I don't pack up and take my guns with me when I leave the house for a few hours or go on vacations for a few days. There is nothing irresponsible about it. The bad guys broke in and stole from legal gun owners. Lets remember who the criminals are here.

Snyper · June 29, 2015, 05:30 PM

Everyone seems to be assuming this gun or guns WEREN'T locked up or hidden.
They broke out of a max security prison, so locks don't slow them down much

FITASC · June 29, 2015, 06:34 PM

Quote:

but the guns themselves? It's practically asking for trouble.

Why is it asking for trouble? If you keep a gun in your car, is that asking for trouble as well? Does that mean that cops or bad guys have some super power to detect it?

Maybe some of those folks live in an urban area where having their hunting guns inside the city limits poses more hassle to them than leaving in the cabin......

You're asking for more trouble from bears by leaving peanut butter in there - which from the articles - seems to be a common thing to do.

mete · June 29, 2015, 06:36 PM

Good point snyper !
Times have changed .People's respect for property has changed . Crime induced by drugs are common now. In that part of NY State it was always hard to get to ,without the vehicles and highways which are common now.

Vt.birdhunter · June 29, 2015, 07:41 PM

We have a hunting cabin in the woods with a couple of old .22s and a shotgun.

I can think of at least 2 other vacation homes around here with firearms and no permanent occupants.

Id say its more the norm than an anomaly.

2ndsojourn · June 29, 2015, 08:41 PM

Back in the day that I grew up in, having guns in your cabin was no different than having other tools there. Yes, they'd probably put out of sight but not secured. But just like having a gun display cabinet, you can't do that anymore.

Sparks1957 · June 29, 2015, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Why is it asking for trouble?

Because most people return to their home or car on a frequent basis, and they are more apt to be located in areas where they are watched more closely.
A cabin in the woods is secluded, and might not be visited for weeks or months at a time.

Camps around here suffer from break-ins at a high rate, while home burglaries are relatively rare. That's why I would never leave a gun in a camp, based on that knowledge.

bamaranger · June 30, 2015, 01:34 AM

A "barn gun" is a pretty common thing out in the country. So to a "truck gun". I suppose there could be such a thing as a "cabin gun". I have a .410 shotgun hidden near the back door, where it has dispatched quite a few snakes on and around our place.

Long term absence....I lock'em all up. And I'm opposed to "storing" a PD handgun in an unattended car.

Murphy says when you really need it, it'll still be in the glove box.

Tony Z · June 30, 2015, 05:58 AM

We never leave firearms or alcohol at our hunting camp. Camp is built of stone, with steel shutters on windows and doors, but thieves have been creative in breaking in-once attaching a chain to the door steel shutter and pulling it open, another time, using a chain saw to cut through a section of roof to get inside.

We're to the point, that we may just leave the door open, with a note, to prevent the damage. Nothing of real value inside.

johnelmore · June 30, 2015, 06:35 AM

Lets say you do leave a firearm in a cabin, or at home, for that matter. Wouldnt you try to place it in secure not-so-obvious place? All the firearms in my household are placed in locked containers and in places which are not obvious. So for a cabin, I can imagine the floor or the ceiling might be a good location. A cabin has a lot of places where something could be hidden easily.

In any event, I would not leave firearms in a temporary or seasonal place of occupation. That makes absolutely no sense and its irresponsible. At the very least, if you do leave a firearm in the cabin, you can at least not leave ammo or disassemble the firearm placing the parts in two different areas of the cabin. etc...

cecILL · June 30, 2015, 06:43 AM

People fortunate enough to have a "cabin in the woods" can't pack all their worldly possessions every time they visit. Nothing wrong with an old shotgun or .22, in the closet or on the wall.
Life is full of chances, why spend your time worrying about what might happen to someone else?

Salmoneye · June 30, 2015, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Id say its more the norm than an anomaly.

Maybe it's a Vermont thing, but I agree...

Evan Thomas · June 30, 2015, 06:50 AM

We don't leave firearms in our cabin. On the other hand, ours is a shack compared to those on either side (lake shore properties, so a bit cheek-by-jowl); any self-respecting burglar would pass ours by, and if they didn't, well, there's a thrift-store microwave and a vast quantity of books...

We do keep it locked up, though.

2damnold4this · June 30, 2015, 07:46 AM

The convicts had help escaping. They might have had help obtaining a firearm.

skoro · June 30, 2015, 09:21 AM

I have some firearms in my cabin. They're out of sight and would take some time to find. That said, my cabin is in an area that's very uninviting to thieves.

June 29, 2015, 11:04 AM	#1
willr Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2006 Posts: 356	Firearms in cabins -- re the two escapees We've understood from news reports that the two escapees in NY obtained firearms from unoccupied cabins in the forest. Having owned a cabin in a National Forest some years ago, it is beyond my understanding that anyone would leave firearms in an unoccupied cabin. Of course, we were broken into several times while we owned it. Hence learned not to leave anything of value there while we were gone. Can anyone justify what happened in NY? willr

June 29, 2015, 11:46 AM	#2
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	It's understandable for folks to leave things in their hunting or retreat cabins. Maybe to have a spare weapon during hunting season for guests, or as a backup in case their main gun becomes disabled. Or to have a weapon in place in case of emergency. Obviously not the best of ideas in this instance. Having them locked up and hidden would have been better, though. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

June 29, 2015, 01:06 PM	#4
Colt46 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: Campbell Ca Posts: 1,090	We have a family cabin in the woods While we don't leave firearms in it(there have been a few break ins over the years)how is it my responsibility to keep other people from stealing my property?

June 29, 2015, 02:06 PM	#5
dyl Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,310	"how is it my responsibility to keep others from stealing your property" I think what you're getting at is that a thief or robber is the one to blame, as they are the ones who went out of their way to commit a crime. Yes, you're correct. You are not a criminal's parent or guardian and shouldn't be held responsible for their actions unless you knowingly aid someone commit a crime. But if you take your statement literally, it's always been our responsibility, or choice. If you don't want your property stolen. I mean, no one else would do that for you. If you don't care that much, you don't have to lock things away. If you hire a company to provide security for your house it becomes their responsibility... but you're still showing you are being responsible by hiring them. I bet you lock your doors, so I don't think that's what you meant Anything else you do on top is out of being considerate and gracious. Wouldn't want to tempt others from doing something even if they know they're not supposed to. At the same time we do see people held responsible for others' actions. Doctors get bad reputations because some patients lie then abuse/sell the narcotics they are prescribed. Luckygunner was sued (it failed) because someone wanted to blame them for selling ammo to a future mass shooter. Last edited by dyl; June 29, 2015 at 02:13 PM.

June 29, 2015, 04:20 PM	#8
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	No one is suggesting that the prison is at fault for letting them escape, are they? __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

June 29, 2015, 11:59 AM	#3
Sparks1957 Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,552	My gal and I were talking about this yesterday, and both of us found it astonishing that someone would be so irresponsible as to leave guns in a cabin in the woods like that. Ammo, maybe, but the guns themselves? It's practically asking for trouble.

June 29, 2015, 03:37 PM	#7
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	I guess it's just as irresponsible to go out shopping for the day and leave your guns in your house, waiting to be stolen. Or park your car in your driveway at night, instead of in the garage. Or carry more than one credit card or a blank check in your wallet, just in case you need them.

June 29, 2015, 05:11 PM	#9
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	I'm with those that see nothing wrong with keeping a firearm stored in a cabin that they own on their land that they pay taxes on. I'm assuming that the cabin itself can be locked up somehow. How is this different than keeping a firearm at hidden away at my home when I go on vacation? Are we going to mandate that *EVERYONE* who owns a firearm must have a gun safe with a rating of XYZ? Because, that's what folks are really saying. Last edited by Skans; June 29, 2015 at 05:32 PM.

June 29, 2015, 05:24 PM	#10
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	If I was fortunate to own a vacation home, I would likely keep a couple arms there, just in case something happened to my main residence. But, they would be hidden in a false stair or shelf or something similar. Lots of cool options for hiding guns, especially in a wood cabin. Your house could just as likely get broken into as a rarely used cabin, so I don't see why there would be an exclusion to keeping firearms there. __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

June 29, 2015, 05:29 PM	#11
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,808	I don't pack up and take my guns with me when I leave the house for a few hours or go on vacations for a few days. There is nothing irresponsible about it. The bad guys broke in and stole from legal gun owners. Lets remember who the criminals are here.

June 29, 2015, 05:30 PM	#12
Snyper Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2013 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 3,047	Everyone seems to be assuming this gun or guns WEREN'T locked up or hidden. They broke out of a max security prison, so locks don't slow them down much __________________ One shot, one kill

June 29, 2015, 06:36 PM	#14
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	Good point snyper ! Times have changed .People's respect for property has changed . Crime induced by drugs are common now. In that part of NY State it was always hard to get to ,without the vehicles and highways which are common now. __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

June 29, 2015, 07:41 PM	#15
Vt.birdhunter Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 637	We have a hunting cabin in the woods with a couple of old .22s and a shotgun. I can think of at least 2 other vacation homes around here with firearms and no permanent occupants. Id say its more the norm than an anomaly. __________________ Maintaining a constant state of cat-like readiness and a heightened state of suspicious alertness.

June 29, 2015, 08:41 PM	#16
2ndsojourn Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,416	Back in the day that I grew up in, having guns in your cabin was no different than having other tools there. Yes, they'd probably put out of sight but not secured. But just like having a gun display cabinet, you can't do that anymore.

June 30, 2015, 01:34 AM	#18
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,308	barn gun A "barn gun" is a pretty common thing out in the country. So to a "truck gun". I suppose there could be such a thing as a "cabin gun". I have a .410 shotgun hidden near the back door, where it has dispatched quite a few snakes on and around our place. Long term absence....I lock'em all up. And I'm opposed to "storing" a PD handgun in an unattended car. Murphy says when you really need it, it'll still be in the glove box.

June 30, 2015, 05:58 AM	#19
Tony Z Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2013 Location: North Central Pennsyltucky Posts: 749	We never leave firearms or alcohol at our hunting camp. Camp is built of stone, with steel shutters on windows and doors, but thieves have been creative in breaking in-once attaching a chain to the door steel shutter and pulling it open, another time, using a chain saw to cut through a section of roof to get inside. We're to the point, that we may just leave the door open, with a note, to prevent the damage. Nothing of real value inside.

June 30, 2015, 06:35 AM	#20
johnelmore Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2013 Posts: 456	Lets say you do leave a firearm in a cabin, or at home, for that matter. Wouldnt you try to place it in secure not-so-obvious place? All the firearms in my household are placed in locked containers and in places which are not obvious. So for a cabin, I can imagine the floor or the ceiling might be a good location. A cabin has a lot of places where something could be hidden easily. In any event, I would not leave firearms in a temporary or seasonal place of occupation. That makes absolutely no sense and its irresponsible. At the very least, if you do leave a firearm in the cabin, you can at least not leave ammo or disassemble the firearm placing the parts in two different areas of the cabin. etc... Last edited by johnelmore; June 30, 2015 at 06:42 AM.

June 30, 2015, 06:43 AM	#21
cecILL Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2001 Location: central IL Posts: 769	People fortunate enough to have a "cabin in the woods" can't pack all their worldly possessions every time they visit. Nothing wrong with an old shotgun or .22, in the closet or on the wall. Life is full of chances, why spend your time worrying about what might happen to someone else?

June 30, 2015, 06:50 AM	#23
Evan Thomas Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2008 Location: Upper midwest Posts: 5,631	We don't leave firearms in our cabin. On the other hand, ours is a shack compared to those on either side (lake shore properties, so a bit cheek-by-jowl); any self-respecting burglar would pass ours by, and if they didn't, well, there's a thrift-store microwave and a vast quantity of books... We do keep it locked up, though. __________________ Never let anything mechanical know you're in a hurry.

June 30, 2015, 07:46 AM	#24
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	The convicts had help escaping. They might have had help obtaining a firearm.

June 30, 2015, 09:21 AM	#25
skoro Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 1,952	Firearms in cabins I have some firearms in my cabin. They're out of sight and would take some time to find. That said, my cabin is in an area that's very uninviting to thieves.