Best substitute for 231 in 45 ACP?

hodaka · May 11, 2013, 12:50 PM

Which do you prefer between Unique, International Clays or Nitro 100? I know there are others but these are the ones that I currently have available. I shoot mostly 200 gr. LSWC. Thanks.

Bart B. · May 11, 2013, 01:10 PM

Bullseye used to be king.

Sometimes, Unique would perform almost as well.

AFK · May 11, 2013, 01:53 PM

I use 231 primarily in my .45 as well. I can also sub 5.8 gr Unique under a 230 gr round nose bullet. Work up a load for the 200 gr bullets that you have. I have worked up Unique loads for 380, 9mm, 45, and 20 gauge, it is a great all around powder.

Misssissippi Dave · May 11, 2013, 03:08 PM

My first choice would be WST. There website lists 4.4 to 5.1 grains with LSWC. 4.6 to 4.8 grains should be close to where you want to be. This is a little faster burning powder but it is also a little cleaner too. I prefer this powder over W231 and AA2 for range use. It will also be sub-sonic if that is important to you. I don't know of anyone using more than 5.0 grains of WST with a 200 grain LSWC. WST works well with lead bullets.

Mike40-11 · May 11, 2013, 06:01 PM

Unique is a great .45 powder. A little dirty if you load it light, cleaner with higher pressures. While Clays is great for .45 and Universal Clays is ok, International Clays is NOT recommended for pistol loads, per Hodgdon.

hodaka · May 11, 2013, 06:02 PM

Thanks for the input. I've been leaning towards Unique because it is easy to find locally. I had heard that it doesn't measure well through a measure. I just checked my Lee Pro Disk that I have on my .45 Dillon 550 block. The measure is set for 5.2 of 231 and it threw 3.7 grains of Unique pretty consistently for 9 throws with one at 3.8. That works for me. Now to find which disk throws the right amount of Unique and I'll give it a try.

Crankylove · May 11, 2013, 06:54 PM

I use mainly Bullseye and Titegroup for my .45 Auto loads.

noylj · May 11, 2013, 07:07 PM

Bullseye or AA2. 231/HP38 is first choice.
Unique is very good when gun likes it--some of mine love it and the rest are very indifferent to it.
International has no loading data for pistols, but it would probably be a very good powder.
Clays has pressure spikes, as does Titegroup at times. Titegroup doesn't always play nice with lead.
Nitro100 is very fast--prefer Solo 1000 (very "well behaved").
Red Dot is very good. It is my third choice after 231/HP38 and AA2.
Promo is Red Dot.
700X and Green Dot are also good.
PB and AA5 are getting a little slow for target velocity accuracy, but they will do the job at 775+ fps.
VV N320 is you are rich.
Right now, its any powder you can find.

Fatelvis · May 11, 2013, 07:30 PM

HP-38 is the exact same powder as W231, just different labels. That would be the best substitute. Unique is the best choice of the three mentioned though.

57K · May 11, 2013, 08:39 PM

IMO, the very best replacement for W231 is Ramshot ZIP. They're nearly identical in appearance but ZIP will give you better performance with jacketed bullets and burns cleaner than 231. Check out the data here:www.ramshot.com I know it's not one of the powders you mentioned and very few here have tried it. Those that have are as sold on it as I am as it will cover any ground for .45 ACP loads from light cast to fast JHPs. It's worth looking for.

lamarw · May 11, 2013, 08:52 PM

I use either 231 or Unique. Unique has a little more velocity, but 231 is better metering.

arch308 · May 11, 2013, 09:04 PM

I like Unique myself. I have no problems with metering thru my charge thrower. I also like the way it tends to fill the case.

Ben Dover · May 11, 2013, 10:44 PM

Unique is well liked. Bullseye is superior for mid-range target loads, but I consioder Unique the better propellant for standard loads.

Silver00LT · May 12, 2013, 12:25 AM

HP-38 is same stuff as W231. Local store had 10+ bottles of HP-38 but none of W231.

IDK rules on posting company info so I am sending you a PM instead.

**Mike Irwin** · May 12, 2013, 08:17 AM

Of the three powders you list, my first choice would be International.

I've never used Nitro 100, but it has a good reputation, but I'm not finding any Accurate Arms reloading data for it in .45 ACP.

And unless I'm missing something on Hodgdon's reloading site, I'm not finding any info on International Clays for .45, either.

Unique I'm not fond of, primarily because of how it meters.

If, however, you have loading data for all three from a reputable source, then I'd probably base your choice on which powder you have the most of.

Muskamoot · May 13, 2013, 04:50 PM

I like Titegroup at near max loads.Clean and really close to factory target loads.

buck460XVR · May 13, 2013, 06:17 PM

Quote:

I use either 231 or Unique. Unique has a little more velocity, but 231 is better metering.

Same here. Unique is a powder that shoots well when measured by volume. One reason why those that use dippers like it. While a powder thrower may throw charges of Unique that vary in weight, unless the powder is bridging or hanging up in the measure for some other reason, the volume should be consistent if one uses the "double tap" method of dispensing. Also, small variances of +/- .1-.2 grains generally makes little difference in accuracy and pressure even in a small capacity case like .45ACP.

John D · May 13, 2013, 06:47 PM

I load 6.0g of Unique with a 230g FMJ bullet. Plenty of pop without being overpowering. I've heard the complaints about Unique being dirty but don't see it in this load.

LSnSC · May 14, 2013, 06:03 AM

1st choice is Clays, not International. I've loaded thousands of rounds of cast and jacketed bullets over Clays. It shoots soft and is very clean.

A very distant second is Unique

WESHOOT2 · May 14, 2013, 08:41 AM

I find Nitro 100 provides the least recoil 'feel' of any powder I've tested in the 45 ACP case.
I find it offers stellar accuracy potential, superior economy, and burns with little fouling residue.

It meters fercrap.

May 11, 2013, 12:50 PM	#1
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	Best substitute for 231 in 45 ACP? Which do you prefer between Unique, International Clays or Nitro 100? I know there are others but these are the ones that I currently have available. I shoot mostly 200 gr. LSWC. Thanks.

May 11, 2013, 06:01 PM	#5
Mike40-11 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 842	Unique is a great .45 powder. A little dirty if you load it light, cleaner with higher pressures. While Clays is great for .45 and Universal Clays is ok, International Clays is NOT recommended for pistol loads, per Hodgdon. Last edited by Mike40-11; May 13, 2013 at 04:34 PM. Reason: spelling

May 11, 2013, 06:54 PM	#7
Crankylove Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2008 Location: 8B ID Posts: 1,753	I use mainly Bullseye and Titegroup for my .45 Auto loads. __________________ The answer to 1984 is 1776

May 11, 2013, 07:30 PM	#9
Fatelvis Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Lockport, IL Posts: 490	HP-38 is the exact same powder as W231, just different labels. That would be the best substitute. Unique is the best choice of the three mentioned though. __________________ Gun control isn't about guns....It's about CONTROL

May 11, 2013, 10:44 PM	#13
Ben Dover Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2013 Location: High up in the Rocky Moun Posts: 665	Unique is well liked. Bullseye is superior for mid-range target loads, but I consioder Unique the better propellant for standard loads. __________________ The soldier's pack is not so heavy a burden as the prisoner's chains. Dwight Eisenhower It is very important what a man stands for. But it is far more important what a man refuses to stand for.

May 11, 2013, 01:10 PM	#2
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Bullseye used to be king. Sometimes, Unique would perform almost as well.

May 11, 2013, 01:53 PM	#3
AFK Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2010 Posts: 151	I use 231 primarily in my .45 as well. I can also sub 5.8 gr Unique under a 230 gr round nose bullet. Work up a load for the 200 gr bullets that you have. I have worked up Unique loads for 380, 9mm, 45, and 20 gauge, it is a great all around powder.

May 11, 2013, 03:08 PM	#4
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	My first choice would be WST. There website lists 4.4 to 5.1 grains with LSWC. 4.6 to 4.8 grains should be close to where you want to be. This is a little faster burning powder but it is also a little cleaner too. I prefer this powder over W231 and AA2 for range use. It will also be sub-sonic if that is important to you. I don't know of anyone using more than 5.0 grains of WST with a 200 grain LSWC. WST works well with lead bullets.

May 11, 2013, 06:02 PM	#6
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	Thanks for the input. I've been leaning towards Unique because it is easy to find locally. I had heard that it doesn't measure well through a measure. I just checked my Lee Pro Disk that I have on my .45 Dillon 550 block. The measure is set for 5.2 of 231 and it threw 3.7 grains of Unique pretty consistently for 9 throws with one at 3.8. That works for me. Now to find which disk throws the right amount of Unique and I'll give it a try.

May 11, 2013, 07:07 PM	#8
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 858	Bullseye or AA2. 231/HP38 is first choice. Unique is very good when gun likes it--some of mine love it and the rest are very indifferent to it. International has no loading data for pistols, but it would probably be a very good powder. Clays has pressure spikes, as does Titegroup at times. Titegroup doesn't always play nice with lead. Nitro100 is very fast--prefer Solo 1000 (very "well behaved"). Red Dot is very good. It is my third choice after 231/HP38 and AA2. Promo is Red Dot. 700X and Green Dot are also good. PB and AA5 are getting a little slow for target velocity accuracy, but they will do the job at 775+ fps. VV N320 is you are rich. Right now, its any powder you can find.

May 11, 2013, 08:39 PM	#10
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	IMO, the very best replacement for W231 is Ramshot ZIP. They're nearly identical in appearance but ZIP will give you better performance with jacketed bullets and burns cleaner than 231. Check out the data here:www.ramshot.com I know it's not one of the powders you mentioned and very few here have tried it. Those that have are as sold on it as I am as it will cover any ground for .45 ACP loads from light cast to fast JHPs. It's worth looking for.

May 11, 2013, 08:52 PM	#11
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	I use either 231 or Unique. Unique has a little more velocity, but 231 is better metering.

May 11, 2013, 09:04 PM	#12
arch308 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2011 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 876	I like Unique myself. I have no problems with metering thru my charge thrower. I also like the way it tends to fill the case.

May 12, 2013, 12:25 AM	#14
Silver00LT Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 286	HP-38 is same stuff as W231. Local store had 10+ bottles of HP-38 but none of W231. IDK rules on posting company info so I am sending you a PM instead. __________________ My YouTube MOLON LABE Training pays off...so keep active with your firearm. It could save your life one day.

May 12, 2013, 08:17 AM	#15
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Of the three powders you list, my first choice would be International. I've never used Nitro 100, but it has a good reputation, but I'm not finding any Accurate Arms reloading data for it in .45 ACP. And unless I'm missing something on Hodgdon's reloading site, I'm not finding any info on International Clays for .45, either. Unique I'm not fond of, primarily because of how it meters. If, however, you have loading data for all three from a reputable source, then I'd probably base your choice on which powder you have the most of. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

May 13, 2013, 04:50 PM	#16
Muskamoot Member Join Date: November 11, 2012 Posts: 16	I like Titegroup at near max loads.Clean and really close to factory target loads.

May 13, 2013, 06:47 PM	#18
John D Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2000 Location: No. Arizona Posts: 436	I load 6.0g of Unique with a 230g FMJ bullet. Plenty of pop without being overpowering. I've heard the complaints about Unique being dirty but don't see it in this load.

May 14, 2013, 06:03 AM	#19
LSnSC Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2010 Posts: 514	1st choice is Clays, not International. I've loaded thousands of rounds of cast and jacketed bullets over Clays. It shoots soft and is very clean. A very distant second is Unique

May 14, 2013, 08:41 AM	#20
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	from your three I find Nitro 100 provides the least recoil 'feel' of any powder I've tested in the 45 ACP case. I find it offers stellar accuracy potential, superior economy, and burns with little fouling residue. It meters fercrap. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"