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Old December 1, 2011, 04:31 AM   #1
DBLAction454
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Why I don't buy used...

FIRST: This thread is not intended to bash anyone who has previously bought used weapons or sells their weapons so please DO NOT turn it into a BS match

This thread is solely a report of another story on another firearms forum that I am a member of and I want to share it with this community.

That being said. I've been a member of HKpro since I purchased my USP.45 earlier this year. Great handgun and now my favorite. Goes bang everytime etc etc etc...USP's are built like tanks. Trust me I did my homework before dropping close to $1000 for it.

Recently on the forums a guy experience a horrible failure of his used USP.40. The front of the slide that captures the recoil spring snapped off (See picture below) and he didn't notice it till he field stripped it after a range trip. Another testament to their reliability. The gun still functioned with that failure.

He reportedly bought the gun recently, date coded 1996, and the previous owner said it only had 600 rounds through it. The new owner put another 200 rounds through it when this happen so only 800 rounds total.

That kind of failure is UNACCEPTABLE for quality weapons that cost around $1000 and after only 800 rounds.

I asked him if he dropped the slide on its face or if there was any way the gun was tampered with (by kids or a friend) without him knowing and he assured us it was not and blamed manufacture defect.

I told him to call HK and see what they would do but I was betting that the original owner messed it up big time and got rid of it.

Long story short... He took it to a local gunsmith and the slide had been refinished... Doing this is a HUGE NO NO for HK and voids the warranty. However, HK's customer service has vastly improved and after calling them and explaining they have had him send the entire pistol and are replacing the slide and other internals that need replacing under warranty...HK also reported that the springs should be replaced...Something they recommend every 10,000 rounds...That's a little more than 600.

MERRY CHRISTMAS! I think he is extremely lucky that they still honored this for him... A new slide from HK? $330

I believe that the original owner covered up his damage to the gun with refinishing the slide. I feel awful that the guy got cheated but I'm happy hes getting it rectified.

This is why I don't buy used. Unfortunately I feel that there are too many people out there that just want to screw you over. I think the only used weapons I'd ever consider is maybe a .22 for plinking ONLY. And even then I'd try to learn as much about the gun as I could. After seeing this and hearing some other stories I can't justify buying a used gun for my CCW/HD. If it has to go bang when I need it I just can't trust someones "Oh yeah its got less than 1000 rounds through it and I babied the crap out of it"

So to everyone who buys used... I wish you the best of luck with all your weapons and I truly hope that some guy doesn't try or succeed in cheating you like this.

Merry Christmas

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Old December 1, 2011, 05:46 AM   #2
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Why I don't buy used...
Meh...I wouldn't let one instance of a guy who got scammed make me pass up what I want.

I've had NIB pieces go TU on me as well. So if your concern is "it has to go bang..." (lord, that expression has become so tiresome) it's always a crap shoot. New may offer a warranty, but it certainly doesn't offer a guarantee.
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Old December 1, 2011, 05:57 AM   #3
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Yes, there are unscrupulous scoundrels out there, but for every one of them there are many, many more folks who trade guns like baseball cards, and simply want different guns to own from time to time. Most of my guns have been purchased used. Some at very good prices not remotely possible if purchasing a new pistol.
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Old December 1, 2011, 07:36 AM   #4
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Every gun I've ever traded or sold has had under 500 rounds through it. If I love or use the gun a lot, I'm keeping it! I fall in love with most of my guns, but some I just don't. They end up in the classified section...
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Old December 1, 2011, 07:42 AM   #5
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Perhaps I've just been lucky, but with one or two exceptions, many of my guns were pre-owned. That includes a couple of surplus guns. I haven't had a problem with any of them.
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Old December 1, 2011, 07:59 AM   #6
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I've lost count of the guns I've owned. I don't keep a LARGE inventory, but I generally have 10-12 handguns and a few long guns.

I've only bought one or two NEW guns in the past 10-12 years, and have had only two marginal experiences -- with a SIG 239 with a crappy trigger, and an AT84s, that needed a new sear. In the meantime I've had a lot of good service out of guns that cost, literally, thousands less than their new counterparts.

Stuff happens with guns, and while you generally get well protected by reputable gun companies if something fails on a new gun, some of these same companies will also cover a used gun, or treat you well despite the fact that it's used. (That has certainly been my experience with Kahr and S&W.)

I'm on a waiting list to pick up a Kel-Tec PMR-30, only because I can't find one used. My wife wants to shoot and is very recoil sensitive. This is the only gun I can find that MIGHT do for home defense, if I'm not around, in her hands. So another NEW gun is coming. (I've had a number of Kel-Tecs and have had nothing but good experiences, so I'm not concerned about warranty issues.)

.

Last edited by Walt Sherrill; December 1, 2011 at 08:22 AM.
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Old December 1, 2011, 08:00 AM   #7
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Some of my best guns have been purchased used.....like the one I pick up today. A beretta 86
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Old December 1, 2011, 08:16 AM   #8
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Lately I'm considering changing my policy to be more like this as well. The savings aren't that amazing anyway, and its a dice roll every time.
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Old December 1, 2011, 08:32 AM   #9
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There is a lot to be said about getting a new pistol with a life time warranty.

However my LGS has a 30 day warranty/return on used guns which gives me a lot of piece of mind and their used prices IMO are pretty fair.
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Old December 1, 2011, 08:38 AM   #10
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Buying used isn't a wise idea for someone that isn't familiar with a product - any product.
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Old December 1, 2011, 08:51 AM   #11
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Sometimes used is the only way to get what you want. Manufacturers discontinue stuff all the time, and some of the older stuff is better than the newer stuff.
I understand why you buy new. Good thing some of us buy used, because if you got tired of it, and we all bought new, there would be a lot of unloved guns out there.
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Old December 1, 2011, 08:55 AM   #12
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The last gun I purchased new was a Desert Eagle .44 magnum - this was in 1996. I've had no problems with it, and very few problems with all of the used guns I've purchased since then.

The one used gun that I purchased at an auction used that I had trouble with was a tricked-out custom .45 built on an STI 2011 frame. The sear had something wrong with it - cost me about $90 to get a quality new sear installed and properly repaired. It's so smooth, so accurate - just a dream to shoot, but I never use it and have thought about using it as trading fodder.
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Old December 1, 2011, 09:29 AM   #13
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I have no problem at all purchasing slightly used guns. But I dont just look superficially at the outside and buy it. Anyone that`s well versed in guns can tell where there`s ware, close inspection and field stripping will, 99% of the time, let you know what condition the gun is in.

There are many millions of guns that people rarely if ever shoot and your missing the boat if you reject them.

I happen to be looking at a HK USP now thats like new, I`ll bet it hasn`t had 50 rounds through it and if I decide to buy it I`ll save over $300 from new, now thats a savings and on the right gun I generally don`t pass it up.
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Old December 1, 2011, 09:32 AM   #14
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I won't buy a used semi-auto,,,

Mainly because I don't know how to check them out for proper function,,,
I would not know what to look for to spot excessive wear.

I will buy a used revolver because I have confidence in my ability to spot a problem before I hand over the cash.

Now having said that I wouldn't buy a used semi-auto,,,
I remembered that I just recently bought a used Beretta Model 85,,,
But I got a "buy it back" guarantee from the Evil Pawn Shop Guy before I paid.

Because I knew I wouldn't get stuck with a lemon,,,
I decided to take a chance on a bargain price.

Aarond
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Old December 1, 2011, 09:33 AM   #15
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I've bought a lot of good used guns. Most people buy a gun, shoot maybe a box or two of ammo through it, then sell it the first time they get into a financial bind.

I do look for signs of monkeying. Buggered screws, etc.

I generally avoid used 1911s. Many are victims of botched, ham-handed kitchen table gunsmithing attempts and then the violator sells it off to get rid of it. Hogged out ejection ports with a dremel are easy to spot, but under the hood so to speak you could have crap like if one night the previous owner Cletus T. Judd the Cable Guy after too many Pabst Blue Ribbons decided to take a file to the hammer and sear for that trigger job he had been wanting.

I find people tend to do weird things to Glocks, usually taking dremels or sandpaper to the polymer frame, but that's easy to spot and used Glocks are usually a safe bet.

Something about the sideplate screws on classic Smith & Wesson revolvers was like a siren song to legions of Jethros who felt compelled to dig around in their toolboxes for the first rusty screwdriver they could find.
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Old December 1, 2011, 09:44 AM   #16
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Of all the guns used by my fellow cadets at the police academy, an HK USP 40 was the only one that broke. It happened on the first day at the range, the safety literally fell off the gun. It still shot though.

He bought it new before the class started and sent it back to get it replaced under warranty. It took just under a month, so he had it back before we graduated.

He was a geeky anti gun leftist so I wasn't close to him and didn't try to help figure out what happened, but it wouldn't surprise me if he assembled it wrong or did something to cause it to break. I think it's more likely that it was just a manufacturer's defect. I also think that most manufacturer's defects show up pretty quickly (a few hundred rounds). This means that, in my book, a gently used gun (under 5000 rounds) is MORE reliable than a new gun.

I did think it was hilarious that his HK broke and another student's Glock 22 jammed constantly with the cheap reloads they gave us to shoot, but my SIGMA 40F never had a problem and I was able to shoot the 2nd highest qualification score of the class with what conventional wisdom says is a POS. I bought it used with an unknown round count and one of the magazines that came with it immediately caused malfunctions so I replaced the bad mag.

I never had another problem with it except for some failures to fire wolf ammo. That same ammo wouldn't fire in my girlfriends 24/7 or my friends Glock 22. I think it wasjust primers that were too hard for a striker fired gun.

The top gun shot a S&W 5906. I later bought one and it has been the most accurate 9mm I've ever owned.

Last edited by chack; December 1, 2011 at 09:54 AM.
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Old December 1, 2011, 10:17 AM   #17
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If I didn't buy used/preowned (whether fired or unfired), it would have been impossible for me to buy most of the guns I've picked up in the last year, and it would likewise be impossible for me to buy all of the out-of-production guns I'm still trying to find.

Yes, you can get screwed, but there are plenty of steps you can take to limit your chances of having a bad experience. If you're willing to buy from just about any seller and after having seen just two or three photos, you're just not being smart.
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Old December 1, 2011, 10:21 AM   #18
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Something about the sideplate screws on classic Smith & Wesson revolvers was like a siren song to legions of Jethros who felt compelled to dig around in their toolboxes for the first rusty screwdriver they could find.
Can I put this in my signature?
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Old December 1, 2011, 10:40 AM   #19
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I have bought many used guns over the years. I would put the number conservatively over 25 and have had exactly 1 issue. Which was fixable on a gun which was priced too good to be true and I should have known better.

If you are smart look at the gun, the seller and are familar with the signs of trouble for that particular gun you can avoid a lot of headaches.

All poodles are dogs not all dogs are poodles. Do not let one bad experience turn you off from the #1 source of quality firearms at low prices. Most guns sold in this country see less than 1000 rounds in their lifetime. Most guns being sold used have seen very little use and if you know how to determine if a gun is truely LNIB you can save your self a lot of coin. IMHO

Some of my better used purchases are:

-LNIB DW CBOB $750
-LNIB less than 200 rounds Les Baer TRS $1350
-Excellent condition 1972 BHP $450
-LNIB BHP Practical $550
-Remington 870 Police mag with speedfeed stock $195
-Excellent Condition Sig P228 Night Sights with 6 mags and Kramer Leather $450

The list goes on and on..... LOL
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Old December 1, 2011, 11:27 AM   #20
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NO problem buying used; brought a used auto with an axis pin clip that had worn out, didnt affect firing. Called the manufacturer and got sent 3 new clips for free. Just look em over in the store and at home. One LGS guy freaked a little when I stripped the slide to look at the axis clip on the second sample I purchased.
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Old December 1, 2011, 11:31 AM   #21
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Well, I've bought a couple of used guns in my time and I can't say I regret it. One was a .22 that we found was made in 1903 or something. Best $20 I ever spent , the stock was in rough shape but it was silly accurate. Wish I still had that one.

The other was my Delta Elite. It was made in 1989 and is the best shooter I have. I like it better than my springfield 1911 loaded target 9mm, and I like it better than my P226. The guy who had it before me had 3 or 4 of them, and he had work done to it. New trigger, hammer, beaver tail, and probably a few things I don't know about but he had them done RIGHT. The gun is just a great shooter. At much expense and fun, I've put hundreds of rounds through it without a hiccup.

I know where the guy works so it isn't like I couldn't find him if it was a lemon so my risk buying it was minimal , but you get the idea.

The funny thing is if I had to sell all my guns but one, the one I'd keep is a Colt 1911 I bought used that's 20+ years old.

So be careful buying new or used, but don't walk away from a good gun that just needs a loving home just because it has a few rounds down range already
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Old December 1, 2011, 11:48 AM   #22
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I guess I need to return my last three purchases.... Naw I'll keep em. Found a S&W 22A dirty in the case but so cheap I had to take it home, sure glad I did it shoots very well. I also picked up a Winchester Model 94 off the web, I'll know more about it this weekend but everything I can test without a live round works, so for now I'm happy with this one as well. And next weekend I'll have my BHP that I just bought, I can't see any signs on it that would indicate that it was ever used. I came with an additional set of grips and two extra magazines. I can't wait to get it to the range.
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Old December 1, 2011, 11:58 AM   #23
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Buying used isn't a wise idea for someone that isn't familiar with a product - any product.
Exactly. The last 3 firearms I bought have been used. A S&W 637 and a Glock. When you show up with gap gauges and a borelight to check timing and lockup on a revolver, or with a Glock tool before breaking a G19 down into 25 pieces for individual quality check before reassembling it in front of the seller (with permission of course), it really puts some bargaining chips in your corner.

PS, my last purchase was a LNIB Smith and Wesson M&P9 for $375. It wasn't exactly the format I wanted, but then again, the market on used guns needs some room for comprimise.

I like buying Used; but it is surely not a market for the uneducated. You have to know what you're getting into and how to cover yourself.

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Old December 1, 2011, 12:29 PM   #24
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With all the internet stories about problems with new guns (of all kinds), I'm almost scared to buy anything but used!

I look at it this way, used (not abused) means that any problems that show up right away, and the majority of them do, have already been found, and identified, if not fixed.

Also I'm partial a a number of guns that they don't make any more. Got any idea how hard it is to find a new S&W model 28? Or a Luger?, etc... Not easy, my friend.

Now, maybe I have a little bit of an advantage, having been a GI "gunsmith", and having around 40+ years of owning and tinkering, so, some things I can spot and avoid that others might miss.

One pistol I got a couple years back (used) from a shop with a range, and the clerk said it jammed a lot. I looked it over, didn't see anything obivous, and took it home. When I did get around to shooting it a little later, first mag through it, yep! it did jam a lot!

Then I oiled it. And it ran fine for the couple hundred rounds I shot out of it that day, and has every time I've used it since.

Now, maybe the previous owner of that HK did do something to it to cause that failure. Maybe the guy who refinished the slide did it (if a different guy). Then again, looking at the pic, maybe they didn't, and it just broke.

Things like that do happen, even with $1000 German guns. Sometimes. Thats why gun makers have warranties and service depts. The best gun makers on the planet have had guns go out the door that weren't 100%, from time to time. Sometimes its something nobody can spot until it fails.

Now, when failures start happening often, and particularly when it is things that are obivous that should have been caught in QC, then the gun maker has a problem.

The real drawback to buying used is that lots of people sell the gun if they have a problem, rather than getting it fixed. So, yes, there are numbers of guns on the used market that are less than they should be. Learn how to spot problems, and actually take a good look before you buy avoids most of them.
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Old December 1, 2011, 12:34 PM   #25
Alpha Wolf
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You can have issues with new guns too. My Kimber 1911's extractor broke off within 100 rounds. Purchased new Kimber fixed it for free. Something to be said for warranties.

My SKS looked fine when purchased but would stove pipe rounds. New piston and spring and it runs fine.

Check them out as good as you can before purchase.

But if you get a good deal you sometimes have to take the risk to add a gun you want to your safe...
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