RO's / SO's - fast question - IDPA

HiPowering Along · March 18, 2006, 08:02 PM

Hey guys -

With a competitor who is shooting a Hi-Power (with the danged mag disconnect intact, as the rulebook dictates) - is the competitor required to unload the magazine before going "hammer down", or may the competitor keep the mag partially out of the gun by about an inch (just enough to tag the danged release)? I've heard it both ways...

My personal technique is to wrap the index finger around the bottom of the mag and only insert it to that point - just enough to hit the disconnect and allow the hammer to drop. Will this fly with the majority of RO's / SO's? The slide is already down, so a round will not be chambered when this is done.

Go ahead and add your $0.02....thanks!

HP'ing

Along

HSMITH · March 18, 2006, 09:56 PM

I would get a 'safety mag', paint it orange, wrap it with yellow tape, something to distinguish it. I would keep that mag EMPTY in my back pocket, at the 'unload and show clear' I would do that, then insert the 'safety mag' and drop the hammer when commanded, remove the mag and holster.

Don't take a chance on an AD with a mag you use normally and the DQ that comes with it, get a mag that will ONLY ever be used to clear and holster the gun. Keep things consistent and simple, make it a routine you are used to.

Jim Watson · March 18, 2006, 10:17 PM

I have seen people allowed to insert a loaded magazine to get the hammer down on a BHP or S&W but I do not approve of it and would not allow it on my range. Get a cheap extra magazine to leave empty and use for Unload and Show Clear. That is required for IPSC and should be for IDPA since they are too lawyerwhipped to let you take the dam' things out. I put the "ejector depressor" (magazine disconnector) back in my 5906 and sold it when they came out with that rule.

Paint it like HSMITH says if it makes you feel better.

Joe D · March 19, 2006, 07:21 AM

Is the mag disconnect really a "safety"? All it does is keep the gun from firing with the mag out. I can see the benefit of a disconnect for a LEO. Drop the mag if you are in a fight and the gun won't fire. Maybe that gives you a chance to get to your backup gun.
I could care less if I am the SO and your BHP does not have the mag disconnect. Yeah, I know I am not enforcing the rules, but you won't get a FTDR from me for dumping rounds either. I have a real problem with dumb rules.
How many 1911s are being shot in competition with a nonfunctional grip safety? I have a problem with that as that is a true safety issue. If that gun hits the ground there is no safety to prevent an accidental discharge.
Please someone turn me in to IDPA HQ. That way I can focus on shooting and not SOing a squad.

motorep · March 19, 2006, 09:49 AM

Joe D- if "that gun hits the ground" a grip safety will have nothing to do with whether it discharges or not. The grip safety on a 1911 prevents the rearward movement of the trigger, only. A firing pin block- Series 80 style, a trigger job that will not let the hammer fall past half-cock, and hopefully a proper firing pin spring will prevent that 1911 from going boom if it hits the dirt.

Joe D · March 19, 2006, 11:24 AM

Guess I should have explained it a bit more. I have seen shooters lose control of their gun and try to grab it as it heads for the ground. It is real easy for a finger to get on the trigger on the way down.

HiPowering Along · March 19, 2006, 11:50 AM

Thanks for the input - have been contempleting ways to accomplish this without "holding up the works" at the match - it is a pain to have to insert the mag again, but I'm not switching from my beloved (and well-shot) Browning due to this rule.

Finally, HSmith - a good use for that crappy Pro-Mag I bought from a 'friend'. I have one left that hasn't seen the "Jawz of Death" from the 10" vice in my garage yet....

March 18, 2006, 08:02 PM	#1
HiPowering Along Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2006 Location: PA - Land of taxes, potholes and unfortunately Ed "Gun Grabbin' Fast Eddie" Rendell Posts: 254	RO's / SO's - fast question - IDPA Hey guys - With a competitor who is shooting a Hi-Power (with the danged mag disconnect intact, as the rulebook dictates) - is the competitor required to unload the magazine before going "hammer down", or may the competitor keep the mag partially out of the gun by about an inch (just enough to tag the danged release)? I've heard it both ways... My personal technique is to wrap the index finger around the bottom of the mag and only insert it to that point - just enough to hit the disconnect and allow the hammer to drop. Will this fly with the majority of RO's / SO's? The slide is already down, so a round will not be chambered when this is done. Go ahead and add your $0.02....thanks! HP'ing Along __________________ HP'ing Along - - - - - - - - - - - - - *"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."* - One of the greatest sentences ever written into an instrument of democracy.

March 19, 2006, 07:21 AM	#4
Joe D Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 1999 Location: Alabama Posts: 455	Is the mag disconnect really a "safety"? All it does is keep the gun from firing with the mag out. I can see the benefit of a disconnect for a LEO. Drop the mag if you are in a fight and the gun won't fire. Maybe that gives you a chance to get to your backup gun. I could care less if I am the SO and your BHP does not have the mag disconnect. Yeah, I know I am not enforcing the rules, but you won't get a FTDR from me for dumping rounds either. I have a real problem with dumb rules. How many 1911s are being shot in competition with a nonfunctional grip safety? I have a problem with that as that is a true safety issue. If that gun hits the ground there is no safety to prevent an accidental discharge. Please someone turn me in to IDPA HQ. That way I can focus on shooting and not SOing a squad. __________________ Miss? That can't be a miss. Looks like a perfect double to me.

March 19, 2006, 11:24 AM	#6
Joe D Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 1999 Location: Alabama Posts: 455	Guess I should have explained it a bit more. I have seen shooters lose control of their gun and try to grab it as it heads for the ground. It is real easy for a finger to get on the trigger on the way down. __________________ Miss? That can't be a miss. Looks like a perfect double to me.

March 19, 2006, 11:50 AM	#7
HiPowering Along Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2006 Location: PA - Land of taxes, potholes and unfortunately Ed "Gun Grabbin' Fast Eddie" Rendell Posts: 254	Thanks for the input, guys! Thanks for the input - have been contempleting ways to accomplish this without "holding up the works" at the match - it is a pain to have to insert the mag again, but I'm not switching from my beloved (and well-shot) Browning due to this rule. Finally, HSmith - a good use for that crappy Pro-Mag I bought from a 'friend'. I have one left that hasn't seen the "Jawz of Death" from the 10" vice in my garage yet.... __________________ HP'ing Along - - - - - - - - - - - - - *"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."* - One of the greatest sentences ever written into an instrument of democracy.

March 18, 2006, 09:56 PM	#2
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	I would get a 'safety mag', paint it orange, wrap it with yellow tape, something to distinguish it. I would keep that mag EMPTY in my back pocket, at the 'unload and show clear' I would do that, then insert the 'safety mag' and drop the hammer when commanded, remove the mag and holster. Don't take a chance on an AD with a mag you use normally and the DQ that comes with it, get a mag that will ONLY ever be used to clear and holster the gun. Keep things consistent and simple, make it a routine you are used to.

March 18, 2006, 10:17 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	I have seen people allowed to insert a loaded magazine to get the hammer down on a BHP or S&W but I do not approve of it and would not allow it on my range. Get a cheap extra magazine to leave empty and use for Unload and Show Clear. That is required for IPSC and should be for IDPA since they are too lawyerwhipped to let you take the dam' things out. I put the "ejector depressor" (magazine disconnector) back in my 5906 and sold it when they came out with that rule. Paint it like HSMITH says if it makes you feel better.

March 19, 2006, 09:49 AM	#5
motorep Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1998 Location: mid-coast Maine Posts: 546	Joe D- if "that gun hits the ground" a grip safety will have nothing to do with whether it discharges or not. The grip safety on a 1911 prevents the rearward movement of the trigger, only. A firing pin block- Series 80 style, a trigger job that will not let the hammer fall past half-cock, and hopefully a proper firing pin spring will prevent that 1911 from going boom if it hits the dirt.