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September 15, 2009, 07:50 PM | #1 |
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Dumb statements about Browning Citori
I almost posted this as a reply to a thread about the dumbest things you've heard said in a gun store, but since it is shotgun-specific I thought I would vent here.
Over the years I have heard several stupid things said about the Browning Citori O/U. Not sure what it is about this gun that seems to bring out the clowns, but I can't think of another single gun that has bred more dumb statements (although a .45 cal. 1911 may run second place). First, I don't know why someone with enough money to buy a Citori can't figure out how to pronounce it, but I have heard several people refer to it as a Browning "Century". The next one is sort of an little quirk. When people discuss Browning shotguns, particularly older models like the A-5, they often refer to the shotgun as a "Belgium Browning". Yes I know, they were made in Belgium, and apparently some people think that is prestigious (I don't know of anything else good made in Belgium except for waffles). My question is about grammar. One should say "Belgian Browning", n'est-ce pas? I am going to shut up about that and open a bottle of France wine. Finally, I have heard a fair share of misstatements and lies about the Citori. It is a perfectly fine shotgun in its own right without owners and sellers making up stuff. The other day I was in a small gun store (where one might expect to encounter a knowledgeable owner) looking for a skeet gun. The guy pointed out a Citori that he had "on sale" (still way overpriced) and told me it was the only way to go. After all, "I've had one for years that was made in Belgium, before they started making them in China." What a load. I think the Citori is a fine product, I just can't figure out why they seem to generate such silly statements. |
September 15, 2009, 08:17 PM | #2 |
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Lazy and/or stupid come to mind.
The Belgian Brownings are highly valued because FN is recognized as one of the great gun manufacturers of the world and that's the company that John Moses Browning personally selected to build his guns. Of course, Miroku is also a pretty darn good gunmaker as well. It's just that "Made in Belgium" sounds like old-world craftsmanship while "Made in Japan" sounds like assembly line craftsmanship. I'm plenty happy with my Made in Japan Browning 425. 15 years and many thousands of rounds on the sporting clay range without nary a hiccup.
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September 16, 2009, 09:55 AM | #3 |
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As near as I can tell, the ones made in Japan are as good in finish and tolerances as the Belgians. Wood may be slightly better on the Euro guns, but it's close.
As for how to pronounce "Citori", just be glad they don't call it a "Shottie" That's my tooth grinder.... |
September 16, 2009, 11:00 AM | #4 |
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"Shottie", "Remmy", "Browny", "Mossy"........:barf:
IMO, what separates the Belgian from the Japanese Brownings are the barrels.....the Belgian ones seem to ring like a bell, have fine balance, and excellent fixed chokes that pattern very well and true to constriction Last edited by oneounceload; September 16, 2009 at 11:37 AM. |
September 16, 2009, 11:20 AM | #5 |
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Citori
I've had shotguns that cost 10 times as much as a Citori. I've had shotguns I swore handled quite a bit better. But I've never had as deadly a shotgun on game as the 16 gauge Citori line. I've probably owned 7-8, pretty much every model, and they are killers. Foolish me I've sold them all off. I shoot them better on game than any shotgun I've owned. If anyone reading this has a 16 ga. Citori of any age, or condition, or model, they are selling. Please PM or email me at [email protected] I have cash, also have several long guns I'd trade.
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September 16, 2009, 11:47 AM | #6 |
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I only have 9 Browning Citori's in the safe currently ( all Miroku guns ..) 6 in 12ga, 1 20ga, 1 28ga, 1 .410 .... / I'm feeling under-gunned ..... ( but there are a few BPS pumps, a semi-auto ....
and only 7 1911's ) ... so I guess I have the "misunderstood line of guns" covered ..... ---------------- a Browning isn't the best Skeet gun out there ... I'll reserve that for a Kolar or Krieghoff, with a 2nd carrier barrel, and a full set of Briley or Kolar tubes for the sub-gagues.... and I count 27 models in Brownings Citori lineup of guns these days .... but the Citori XS Skeet, with adj comb, is a very good gun for the money. But it is too bad that more gun shops don't really understand the complete line of Citori's / how they are best utilized ...so they can really help their customers ( but then, that's why we have a forum too )... |
September 17, 2009, 06:26 PM | #7 |
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"Yes I know, they were made in Belgium, and apparently some people think that is prestigious (I don't know of anything else good made in Belgium except for waffles)."
Sounds like a personal problem and certainly a lack of research on your part. John |
September 17, 2009, 09:50 PM | #8 | |
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September 18, 2009, 03:14 AM | #9 |
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45 Colt and Crunchy Frog,
I happen to think my Belgium made Browning is superior to my Japanese made Browning. I enjoy both of them though. People also used to think things stamped Made in the U.S.A. were superior but aparently not anymore. I still believe they are though. |
September 18, 2009, 12:05 PM | #10 |
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If I were to comment on the Belgian-made Citori the guy in the gun shop was talking about, it would probably hurt his feelings. Browning Citoris are made in Japan, and have always been made in Japan. The Belgian O/U shotgun was called the Superposed. They are essentially the same design except for ejector cocking mechanism, the forearm metal, and forearm latch. Production was switched to Japan in the early 1970s due to the cost of labor in Europe. While I have never owned a Superposed, I own Citoris, and I like them a lot.
As far as other Belgian-made Browning shotguns, the A-5 from Belgium and the Japanese A-5 compare very nicely. The Japanese A-5 has a bit better metal fitting but is slightly heavier due to the barrel proportions where the removable choke screws in. The Japanese A-5s also have too much wood in the stocks, making them handle like a club. Not to knock Japanese manufacturing, they don't own and shoot firearms, how were they supposed to know? Oh, by the way, it's pronounced "sit O ree", and it's a made-up word. Supposedly, the VP of Marketing for Browning was sitting in a "meeting" with the Japanese VPs trying to decide what to call the gun to differentiate it from the Superposed, and was writing sounds on his cocktail napkin when he came up with the word (another three-beer idea).
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September 18, 2009, 07:48 PM | #11 |
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OP here (no, not the kid from Mayberry). Post was tongue in cheek but still managed to offend so here are the apologies du jour.
Sorry to all our friends in Belgium. I'm sure you produce many quality, um.. non-waffly stuff. No offense intended. Hey, the HQ of the World Court makes it home in Belgium. Although I have always wondered why the city rates an article. It's called "the Hague". In the States we don't have "the Denver"; the UK does not boast "the London". Then again there is "La Paz" so perhaps it's not so unusual. Big "sorry" to owners of Belgian made Browning products. Rightful pride in Old World craftmanship is yours. I once owned a Hi-Power that (I think) was stamped "made in Belgium". Does that make amends? OK, probably not. Big thanks, though, to Scorch for providing the origin of the monkier "Citori". That's a good story. |
September 18, 2009, 08:25 PM | #12 |
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The Hague is in The Netherlands, not Belgium....
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September 18, 2009, 09:30 PM | #13 |
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See, they really are two different countries.
And a Citori is no Superposed. And I like the rib on the Superposed better, too. |
September 18, 2009, 09:37 PM | #14 |
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I like the Belgian barrels - much thinner, swing great, ring like a bell - they are well-struck and well regulated. (The Citoris are also well-regulated). Being fixed chokes, Belgian barrels can be more readily made thinner which means they swing FAST.....
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September 18, 2009, 09:40 PM | #15 |
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Please entertain the new guy for a second...
Im guessing it goes Citori like "Sitory" ??
I don't know, and I don't want to be that guy that is at the gun store making a fool of himself...
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September 19, 2009, 09:46 PM | #16 |
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I've had a Citori Lightning Feather 12-gauge for several years, and it is a great handling and shooting gun.
Funniest thing I ever heard was an older friend of mine who was in the market for a new shotgun remarked one day in all seriousness, "I'd like to have me one of them "Browning Clitoris". I didn't have the heart to straighten him out; still not sure he ever figured out the difference... |
September 23, 2009, 03:58 PM | #17 |
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newbie here, and I know nothing about a Browning Citori, other than how to pronounce it, so I may be ahead of a few.
My question is this: A guy has a 12 guage Browning Citori (Belgium made) that he is thinking about selling and threw out $7 to $800. I have not seen the gun yet, says its in good shape. With my limited knowledge of this gun, could I assume it is a fixed choke gun? Probably a mod/Full. Barrel length would possibly be 28, maybe 30? is that possible. What about chambering, would this be a 2 3/4 only, or did they standardly come with a 3 inch chamber? I'm thinking about rounding up the cash. What say you? Thanks, R |
September 23, 2009, 04:06 PM | #18 |
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I'm thinking that if it is great shape with NO salt wood, then that would be a good price, and yes they would be fixed chokes - that does NOT mean you can't have the chokes opened a notch or two if M/F is what they are and that is too tight.
Post pics when you get it |
September 24, 2009, 10:02 AM | #19 |
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I see some mention of "salt wood" in some sales info online. Can someone explain what I am to be looking for?
Does anyone know if it would be chambered for 3" or not? TIA R |
September 24, 2009, 10:55 AM | #20 |
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September 24, 2009, 12:21 PM | #21 |
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If it is chambered for 3 inch shells, it will say so on the barrel
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September 24, 2009, 12:52 PM | #22 |
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The problem with the Citori being made in Japan is that Japan doesn't have a history of turning out some of the world's best guns. Also, Japan is a very anti-gun society, Belgium has earned a reputation for fine old-world craftsmanship with regard to firearms. So has Italy. Russian companies have been making guns and shotguns for years - but they don't have a reputation of making anything top quality.
The bottom line is that, while Citori makes a decent shotgun, I don't feel that there is anything all that special about them that would cause me to pay top dollar for one. If I can't get one for a deep discount, I'd prefer to have something else like a Beretta. Why would I want to support Japan's firearms industry when they aren't offering me something truly outstanding - either in price or in quality? |
September 24, 2009, 01:21 PM | #23 | |||||
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September 24, 2009, 01:29 PM | #24 |
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You should buy what you want... but I'll stack a Japanese ( Miroku ) made Browing up against any Beretta made...shell for shell, fit, finish, etc ...
I primarily buy Browning because the guns fit me / and typically the Beretta does not. Is there a difference in the 2 mfg's / sure .... is it significant, no. Personally, I think the Citori line of guns from Browning is a stronger gun than most of the line of guns offered by Beretta - but that can be debated. The gun the OP is discussing - with fixed chokes - in my area is worth somwhere between $ 650 - $ 750 probably in good condition. My primary Brownings for hunting, Skeet and Sporting clays ... http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...1&d=1253816818 One in 12ga, one in 20ga, one in 28ga and one in .410 - all Browning Citor XS-Skeet models with 30" barrels ... My primary Trap guns http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...7&d=1235590418 Browning XT-Trap models 32" barrels / one with upgraded wood, Gracoil on it. They're not real fancy guns / but all 6 of them have many thousands of shells thru them - and they'll all last well into 2 more generations of shooters in my family when I'm ready to give them up. Last edited by BigJimP; December 14, 2016 at 07:34 PM. |
September 24, 2009, 02:00 PM | #25 |
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Are you telling me that a Japanese Citori retains its resale value on the used market as well as a Beretta? We're not talking high end shotguns here, just the garden variety that most people tend to buy. Why is it that most rentals tend to be Beretta White Onyxes (at least from my observation) if these guns shake apart after a couple thousand rounds?
The bottom line is just tell me why I'd consider a New Japanese Citori over a New Beretta in the same general price range (+/- $400, because if I'm spending $2,000+ on a shotgun, I'm not going to worry too much about price differences of a couple hundred dollars). Please, convince me. |
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