Floridians....gun show and concealed carry issues...

[Carry_24/7]

I have a serious question for other Florida CCrs....

With our state laws concerning the rights of CCrs, how can someone running a gunshow hire off-duty cops to stand at the door and enforce "no loaded weapons"?

Can the cops actually enforce this or are they simply barking and hoping we comply?

What would be the charge if you lie when asked, and proceed inside?

How can they do this and Walmart can't? Is there a special regulation concerning gun shows?

Is this enforceable, and if so, under what law?

These are real questions....any Florida folks have any answers?

[Tom Servo]

Defying the ban itself does not break any laws, but if you're caught and told to leave, you could be charged with trespassing if you fail to cooperate.

Like it or not, many gun shows ban guns. This is the price we pay for the lowest common denominator cranking rounds off into the ceiling or (in one memorable incident) the planter in the parking lot.

[Carry_24/7]

The last thing I'd want to do is disrespect an officers actual authority by lieing to him. But, if the officer has no actual authority to ban my weapon, and is simply barking a wish of the private organization paying them in their part-time job, then the lie is justified (I feel).

Is the officer justified in banning my weapon at the gun show when state law states otherwise? Why can't Walmart hire the same cops to do the same at their door? Doesn't this overturn state law, and use the police to do it?

I don't want a tussle with the police, I'm making sure I'm on the right side of the law.

[Aikibiker]

Like the movie watching robot above me said; you cannot get in trouble if they catch you with your ccw, only if you refuse to leave when they tell you to.

Me I just jokingly tell whoever is asking that I don't have anything illegal on me. It is the truth and dodges the question in a friendly way.

[Carry_24/7]

Aikibiker; Tom; thanks for the feedback....

[Tommy Vercetti]

armed trespass in Florida is a third degree felony and since you've already decided to ignore posted warnings you'd best "lawyer up" if you get caught

[Standing Wolf]

Having to be disarmed is one of the reasons I don't still go to gun shows.

[Carry_24/7]

Tommy; nobody said they were going to ignore anything. This is an attempt by me to gather info from other folks that may know more about this than myself......nothing more, okay? Thanks...

[Aikibiker]

In Florida it only becomes armed trespass if you refuse to leave when asked. In Fl a sign is just a pretty painting, it has no legal effect. Same for the cop at the front asking if you have a weapon, he is just some guy that likes donuts making conversation with you as you pay your entry fee.

Now if the gunshow is being held in a bar, court house, airport, polling place, police station, etc. then you had better read the signs and listen to the nice fellow with the badge.

Welcome to America.

[Tommy Vercetti]

good luck convincing judges and juries to look at it from your point of view, I'm afraid you might need it

[Carry_24/7]

Biker, agreed. What I'm interested in is the law, and nothing else.

Standing Wolf; true, these rules do make gun shows unattractive, my LGS is not so restrictive, and they don't walk over Florida law. The state has enacted laws that private citizens then pay off-duty police to step on.

Thanks again.

[vranasaurus]

Is it illegal to lie to law enforcement in Florida?

[Carry_24/7]

It is illegal to lie to an officer in the course of his official duties...but if he's working part-time, off duty, and advocating something that goes against Florida law just because his private employer wishes it; that's where the waters get murky.

[Don P]

The gun shows I have attended have had a FLA State Trooper at the door, in uniform which to me means he is "on duty"

[Aikibiker]

Originally Posted by Tommy Vercetti

good luck convincing judges and juries to look at it from your point of view, I'm afraid you might need it

Here is a link to Florida's weapons laws: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...entsIndex.html

Under what statute would I be arrested and charged. I would really like to know.

In support of my point of view I would direct your attention to FL statutes 790.06 12A (1-15) and Fl Statutes 790.33 with particular attention to 790.33 3(A-F)

[Carry_24/7]

DonP, maybe the state considers them "on-duty", I stand corrected, but he's still being paid as a part-timer on behalf of the private entity to use his government badge against civilians to kick over Florida law; which is my point. Why dont other businesses do this, which would essentially overturn our CC rights signed by the governor? Trust me, I respect the police, this is not a police bash fest...this is about one specific issue...

Biker, leave Tommy alone, his comments have nothing to do with the spirit of the thread; which is "what is the law" vs. "what is actually happening"?

I'm not trying to win an argument, it's a conversation...not about safety, common sense, or anything else other than actual Florida law.

[Don P]

My take on no loaded firearms at the gun show is to big a crowd along with folks handling guns and all of a sudden BANG. Perhaps it has something to do with the part of the statute about sporting events, concerts, gatherings of a large number of people. Just my take and we all have the freedom to attend or not.

[vranasaurus]

It really depends on how broadly or narrowly statutes or the courts define "official duties".

[Crazy88Fingers]

There isn't anything going against state laws. Private property owners have the right to ban people from carrying weapons on their property, and an officer has a right to remove anyone who doesn't comply with that policy. If Wal-Mart wanted to institute this policy, there's nothing stopping them. And if you don't like it, then don't go to Wal-Mart or the gun show.

And I believe loaded guns aren't allowed into gun shows so that a "sterile" environment can be maintained. Plenty of people handling guns all day long. You don't want someone to get confused and pick up a loaded one without realizing it.

[Carry_24/7]

DonP; good point on the "sporting event" issue, could be a narrow line they're walking...could be it.

Crazy88; "if you don't like it you can".....and "nanny, nanny, poo-poo" type comments are not of assistance, but thanks anyway...

I got some good info out of this, thanks for contributing, I wanted to hear what some other serious gunners thought of this. I do comply with the orders of the officers, and will continue to do so....if I ever visit another gun show in Florida........signing off.

[oneounceload]

Just unloaded your gun before going inside and put your ammo in your pocket, then reload it when you leave - what's the big deal? Too many yahoos bringing guns in to sell and forgetting to remove the round from the chamber

[CowTowner]

From the point of view of an NRA Instructor (yep, I'm a new one), where you have firearms and loaded ammunition, you have 2 of the 3 things required for an incidental discharge. Safety would dictate removing another 1 of those things for everyone's sake when ever possible.

[Doyle]

Carry, what you don't understand is that a person's (or corporation's) property rights will always override any perceived concealed carry rights unless the legislature has give specific precident to carry rights. In the case of a gun show, both the owner of the facility and its leasee (i.e. the gunshow promoter) have property rights that trump your perceived carry right.

[Aikibiker]

Doyle,

Actually the legislature of the State of Florida has specifically over ridden those property rights in favor of carry rights in Fl statute 790.33 as I linked to above.

[Crazy88Fingers]

I didn't mean to "nanny nanny poo poo" on anyone, but it's a very simple concept that some people apparently aren't grasping.

Their house, their rules.

790.33 only establishes that cities and counties can't pass gun laws, it's the state's domain. Nowhere does it mention private property owners.