New to reloading. 9mm question

Mitchw123456 · January 10, 2013, 08:46 PM

I recently purchased a dillon 650 and made my first trial run of 30ish rounds to test. I'm using Berrys brass, accurate no 2 powder, Winchester primers, and friendswood bullet company 115gr lead bullets.

My first batch I made I used 3.4 grains of powder and went by accurates websites stated oal of 1.070. The rounds barely cycled my pistol and the shot brass literally fell at my feet versus it's typical 10-15'. The max load according to accurate is 4.4gr. After I get my new primer indexer from dillon in I'm thinking about trying another batch at 4.0 gr.

Does this sounds logical to everyone as a next step or is there something else I could be missing? I've done tons of reading ad researching prior to my purchase but I just wanted to make sure I was going in the right direction.

Thanks in advance for any help!

chris in va · January 10, 2013, 09:04 PM

There's a reason why 3.4gr is a starting load, and you found out why. 4.0 sounds like a fine mid load, go for it.

BTW AA2 really isn't known for 9mm. Try 231, Universal, Bullseye etc.

factoryrat · January 10, 2013, 09:23 PM

I'm not going to look up the load data. I'll just assume you got your numbers right. I have used AA#2 in 9mm. I liked it. I don't shoot lead in 9mm. Your starting load of 3.4gr does sound light, as your results w/cycling and ejection indicated. I run 4.8gr AA#2 under 115 XTP. I also run a OAL of 1.118" w/the XTP. I run 115 JHP at 1.125". OAL is gun specific, that's just what I run in my P7. What I would say is there is no need to jump from 3.4gr to 4.0gr. I prefer to work up slower. I usually run 5 rounds for every tenth of a grain increase once I decide where I want to shoot for in the recommended loadings. So maybe run 5 each @ 3.6 - 3.8 - then 4.0. I don't like to make big jumps like 3.4 - 4.0. I guess you would be ok, but why take the chance? You may find 3.8 is what works best (I don't know, just saying that as an example).

the led farmer · January 10, 2013, 09:48 PM

it was me i would make 5 rounds each for 3.6, 3.8, 4.0, 4.2 and 4.4 grains and see what you and your gun like best, then make lots more

Mitchw123456 · January 10, 2013, 10:47 PM

Thanks everyone for the info. I think I will try making a few at different weights versus making the jump to 4.0. Maybe I'm missing something but here are the recommended loads for no 2 from accurates website.

chris in va · January 10, 2013, 11:00 PM

I saw that chart, hence the 4.0 recommendation.

Misssissippi Dave · January 10, 2013, 11:07 PM

AA2 works fairly well near mid range or slightly above mid range from what I have seen so far. You will find something much better than the starting load as you work your way up. Each pistol is different so what I have used in mine might not work as well in yours. Make 5 to 10 rounds in your step increases. I would not jump more than .2 grains at a time. You might miss a good load that way.

+1k ammo · January 10, 2013, 11:36 PM

Yes, the Dillon 650 is a fine machine.

Doing 147gr at moment, so can't help with the data, but like all ammo, some run better in differnt guns and I start low on the chart as well. Unfortunately it takes some time to do small batches and test just becuase of a time thing, so I did like you and ran off 20-30 rounds and they were decent, so did not really change anything except playing with OAL.

With the lighter load my Caracal would sometimes not lock back on last round, but otherwise was fine. I would see no problem in increasing to 4.0

Mitchw123456 · January 11, 2013, 12:21 AM

Thanks for the info. That's another thing that irked me was the slide not locking back.

the led farmer · January 11, 2013, 12:22 AM

I forgot to add for plinking I am now loading to the minimum powder requirements for reliable operation. Every little bit saved adds up especially when you start multiplying by the hundreds or thousands so something to consider also

For me precision rounds I don't skimp

Misssissippi Dave · January 11, 2013, 07:57 PM

Powder is the cheapest component in loading. With the exception of VV powders trying to save money on powder seems to be a wasted effort. If you want to save money the best place is to use cheaper bullets or possibly a cheaper round to load. I prefer to just use as much powder as I need to for the loads I am trying to make. I mostly am looking for a clean burn and accurate load. Soft shooting is nice with some pistols but it has to cycle properly.

Mitchw123456 · January 11, 2013, 09:56 PM

Well good news is my dillon parts came in and I was able to make a few rounds. Looks like the 4.0 is going to do the trick. Maybe it's just me or the foggy day but this accurate no 2 powder seems to smoke like crazy! Thanks for all the advice.

Misssissippi Dave · January 11, 2013, 11:13 PM

When loading lead bullets, most of the smoke you get is from the lube used with the lead bullet. AA2 has very little smoke when load for an accurate load with a jacketed bullet.

jimbob86 · January 11, 2013, 11:24 PM

Quote:

There's a reason why 3.4gr is a starting load, and you found out why. 4.0 sounds like a fine mid load, go for it.

BTW AA2 really isn't known for 9mm. Try 231, Universal, Bullseye etc.

I've seen AA#2 start loads as high as 4.4 .... and even that fills less than 1/2 the case.

I'd find a more suitable powder. Low load densities don't make for consistant loads, and leave room for a double charge.

the led farmer · January 11, 2013, 11:46 PM

Quote:

I mostly am looking for a clean burn and accurate load. Soft shooting is nice with some pistols but it has to cycle properly.

like i said for plinking loads i load to the minimum RELIABLE load. if i can shoot a 3.8 gr load reliably vs a 4.2 gr that might have yielded slightly better results (and please with handgun who can really tell if it's the ammo or just too much coffee or the hangover perhaps) i am going to go with 3.8 gr. after 1000 rounds i thats 400 gr of powder saved. thats enough for over 100 more rounds.

so yes, i am currently skimping powder for minimum reliability on plinking ammo. i wish i had money to burn but i don't. not saying everyone else needs to or even wants to. but it's friggin' crunch time out there fellas, waste not want not.

Shootest · January 11, 2013, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Well good news is my dillon parts came in and I was able to make a few rounds.

Mitchw123456, did Dillon send more than 1 primer indexer to you. I have a 18 year old XL650 and had the same trouble/problem and they sent 3 indexers, 4 of the curved washers and a return spring. I was thinking they don’t want to hear from me again for a long time. lol

p.s. it don’t matter what powder you use, cast bullets just smoke like a chimney.

RC20 · January 12, 2013, 12:45 PM

If it helps perspecvi wise, I tend not to start at the lowest load for a semi auto.

They do not eject right and some not at all.

And as long as its a safe mid load, I would not hesitate to do the jump you did when you found that Alvinia low load was not working.

Part of the accuracy of a semi auto is the slide cycling reliably and getting the bullet seated in the chamber the same for the next round.

There is a contention that the first bullet seated from a new mag using the slide release is going to be off from an auto shot seating and serious shooting will shoot the berm with that round first and then shoot for accuracy..

Once I get up to the 75% level then I do get cautious on the loads (new pistols).

k4swb · January 12, 2013, 12:53 PM

Quote:

My first batch I made I used 3.4 grains of powder and went by accurates websites stated oal of 1.070. The rounds barely cycled my pistol and the shot brass literally fell at my feet versus it's typical 10-15'. The max load according to accurate is 4.4gr. After I get my new primer indexer from dillon in I'm thinking about trying another batch at 4.0 gr.

If the load actually did cycle 100% and the bullet reached the target and the brass fell close by where you had no trouble fetching it, that sounds like the perfect load for that gun to me.

the led farmer · January 12, 2013, 02:08 PM

fat fingers

Mitchw123456 · January 12, 2013, 09:13 PM

Shootest, Dillon only sent me one primer indexer.

Thanks again everyone for the info. I loaded up the other 450 or so lead round I had today before coming into work. I did stop in and buy some titegroup to give it a try as it seems no one is a fan of the accurate no 2. Now, if only my local gun shop guy would get over the flu and open his doors up I'll be ready to be back at it again.

By the way, is there a list of acronyms anywhere here?

January 10, 2013, 08:46 PM	#1
Mitchw123456 Junior Member Join Date: January 10, 2013 Posts: 6	New to reloading. 9mm question I recently purchased a dillon 650 and made my first trial run of 30ish rounds to test. I'm using Berrys brass, accurate no 2 powder, Winchester primers, and friendswood bullet company 115gr lead bullets. My first batch I made I used 3.4 grains of powder and went by accurates websites stated oal of 1.070. The rounds barely cycled my pistol and the shot brass literally fell at my feet versus it's typical 10-15'. The max load according to accurate is 4.4gr. After I get my new primer indexer from dillon in I'm thinking about trying another batch at 4.0 gr. Does this sounds logical to everyone as a next step or is there something else I could be missing? I've done tons of reading ad researching prior to my purchase but I just wanted to make sure I was going in the right direction. Thanks in advance for any help!

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January 10, 2013, 09:04 PM	#2
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	There's a reason why 3.4gr is a starting load, and you found out why. 4.0 sounds like a fine mid load, go for it. BTW AA2 really isn't known for 9mm. Try 231, Universal, Bullseye etc.

January 10, 2013, 09:23 PM	#3
factoryrat Member Join Date: March 1, 2011 Posts: 54	I'm not going to look up the load data. I'll just assume you got your numbers right. I have used AA#2 in 9mm. I liked it. I don't shoot lead in 9mm. Your starting load of 3.4gr does sound light, as your results w/cycling and ejection indicated. I run 4.8gr AA#2 under 115 XTP. I also run a OAL of 1.118" w/the XTP. I run 115 JHP at 1.125". OAL is gun specific, that's just what I run in my P7. What I would say is there is no need to jump from 3.4gr to 4.0gr. I prefer to work up slower. I usually run 5 rounds for every tenth of a grain increase once I decide where I want to shoot for in the recommended loadings. So maybe run 5 each @ 3.6 - 3.8 - then 4.0. I don't like to make big jumps like 3.4 - 4.0. I guess you would be ok, but why take the chance? You may find 3.8 is what works best (I don't know, just saying that as an example).

January 10, 2013, 09:48 PM	#4
the led farmer Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2012 Location: so cal Posts: 246	it was me i would make 5 rounds each for 3.6, 3.8, 4.0, 4.2 and 4.4 grains and see what you and your gun like best, then make lots more

January 10, 2013, 10:47 PM	#5
Mitchw123456 Junior Member Join Date: January 10, 2013 Posts: 6	Thanks everyone for the info. I think I will try making a few at different weights versus making the jump to 4.0. Maybe I'm missing something but here are the recommended loads for no 2 from accurates website.

January 10, 2013, 11:00 PM	#6
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	I saw that chart, hence the 4.0 recommendation.

January 10, 2013, 11:07 PM	#7
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	AA2 works fairly well near mid range or slightly above mid range from what I have seen so far. You will find something much better than the starting load as you work your way up. Each pistol is different so what I have used in mine might not work as well in yours. Make 5 to 10 rounds in your step increases. I would not jump more than .2 grains at a time. You might miss a good load that way.

January 10, 2013, 11:36 PM	#8
+1k ammo Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2013 Posts: 235	Yes, the Dillon 650 is a fine machine. Doing 147gr at moment, so can't help with the data, but like all ammo, some run better in differnt guns and I start low on the chart as well. Unfortunately it takes some time to do small batches and test just becuase of a time thing, so I did like you and ran off 20-30 rounds and they were decent, so did not really change anything except playing with OAL. With the lighter load my Caracal would sometimes not lock back on last round, but otherwise was fine. I would see no problem in increasing to 4.0

January 11, 2013, 12:21 AM	#9
Mitchw123456 Junior Member Join Date: January 10, 2013 Posts: 6	Thanks for the info. That's another thing that irked me was the slide not locking back.

January 11, 2013, 12:22 AM	#10
the led farmer Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2012 Location: so cal Posts: 246	I forgot to add for plinking I am now loading to the minimum powder requirements for reliable operation. Every little bit saved adds up especially when you start multiplying by the hundreds or thousands so something to consider also For me precision rounds I don't skimp

January 11, 2013, 07:57 PM	#11
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	Powder is the cheapest component in loading. With the exception of VV powders trying to save money on powder seems to be a wasted effort. If you want to save money the best place is to use cheaper bullets or possibly a cheaper round to load. I prefer to just use as much powder as I need to for the loads I am trying to make. I mostly am looking for a clean burn and accurate load. Soft shooting is nice with some pistols but it has to cycle properly.

January 11, 2013, 09:56 PM	#12
Mitchw123456 Junior Member Join Date: January 10, 2013 Posts: 6	Well good news is my dillon parts came in and I was able to make a few rounds. Looks like the 4.0 is going to do the trick. Maybe it's just me or the foggy day but this accurate no 2 powder seems to smoke like crazy! Thanks for all the advice.

January 11, 2013, 11:13 PM	#13
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	When loading lead bullets, most of the smoke you get is from the lube used with the lead bullet. AA2 has very little smoke when load for an accurate load with a jacketed bullet.

January 12, 2013, 12:45 PM	#17
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	If it helps perspecvi wise, I tend not to start at the lowest load for a semi auto. They do not eject right and some not at all. And as long as its a safe mid load, I would not hesitate to do the jump you did when you found that Alvinia low load was not working. Part of the accuracy of a semi auto is the slide cycling reliably and getting the bullet seated in the chamber the same for the next round. There is a contention that the first bullet seated from a new mag using the slide release is going to be off from an auto shot seating and serious shooting will shoot the berm with that round first and then shoot for accuracy.. Once I get up to the 75% level then I do get cautious on the loads (new pistols).

January 12, 2013, 02:08 PM	#19
the led farmer Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2012 Location: so cal Posts: 246	fat fingers

January 12, 2013, 09:13 PM	#20
Mitchw123456 Junior Member Join Date: January 10, 2013 Posts: 6	Shootest, Dillon only sent me one primer indexer. Thanks again everyone for the info. I loaded up the other 450 or so lead round I had today before coming into work. I did stop in and buy some titegroup to give it a try as it seems no one is a fan of the accurate no 2. Now, if only my local gun shop guy would get over the flu and open his doors up I'll be ready to be back at it again. By the way, is there a list of acronyms anywhere here?