loads for M1A

USMC Vet · August 10, 2009, 10:22 PM

Recently purchased a new Springfield M1A Nat'l. match. It has been a lo-o-ong time since I have loaded for a military style semi auto, and I am seeking some sugestions for load data. Most of the local shops seem to carry a good supply of Hornady bullets, and would like to develop loads using the Hornady 150 gr.FMJBT and the Hornady 168 BTHP. This rifle has a 1/11 twist. The Hornady manual has a section devoted to the M1A, but many of the loads seem ultra-conservative. Thanks. USMC Vet

Mark whiz · August 11, 2009, 12:08 AM

I have to agree that Hornady's data does seem low most of the time.
A standard accepted M1A load is 168gr bthps like Sierra matchkings over 41.5 to 42.5gr of IMR 4895 using mil-spec cases.

Here is a link to Zediker's article on loading for the M1A - so it should give you about all the refreshing you might need:
http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf

bfoosh006 · August 11, 2009, 12:12 AM

Read the first two articles at this link, (actually save them to your computer)...http://www.zediker.com/downloads/m14.html...and at the risk of being improper to the rules here...this website...http://www.m14tfl.com..is dedicated to the M14 platform, you'll have to join ...but its worth it.

30Cal · August 11, 2009, 04:15 PM

I shoot 41.5gr IMR4895 under the Sierra/Nosler 168gr with a LC case and WLR or Rem primer @ 2.81". Same for the 150/155gr match bullets and also for the 125gr Speer TNT (2.75") which is a superb bullet for 200yds and less (cheap, match-grade accurate, very low recoil). All of those shoot about a minute or better from my Supermatch w/ 1:12" Kreiger.

USMC Vet · August 11, 2009, 06:34 PM

Mark whiz, bfoosh006, 30Cal: Thanks to you for your quick response to my search for an M1A load. Thanks also for the zediker link. I'll check it out. USMC Vet

Longdayjake · August 12, 2009, 10:51 AM

I have always just looked up the load for the m118 or the other that shoots the 168 grain. Both have been great from my m1a loaded.

**Unclenick** · August 12, 2009, 11:12 AM

M118 used the 173 grain FMJ BT (I still have some from the early 90's). M852 used the Sierra 168 grain MK. The new M118 LR uses the 175 grain Sierra MK. I don't recall any of their loads being listed with canister grade reloader's powders, but Jeff Bartlett has had all the surplus non-canister stuff from time to time.

What powder and charge you use depends on case capacity. I recommend you get the CCI #34 primers for the gas gun. I ran Federal 150's for years, but had some trouble with velocity variance in some loads (Accurate 2520 ball powder, mainly) where deburring flashholes made quite a significant improvement in group size with those primers. Just this week I read the article Hardcase linked to in this thread, and it suggests I could have got the same result from running magnum primers all along (the #34 is made with a magnum level primer pellet). Federal 215M's are another to try, but they aren't military hard like the #34's, and unless I see a drawback to the #34's, the extra hardness as slamfire prevention insurance isn't a bad idea. Just be sure you get them seated 0.003"-0.005" below flush with the face of the case head. Lacking that proper seating depth is what causes most slamfires, and not softness of the primer cup.

If you use Federal cases, their 168 grain GM load runs up closer to the equivalent of 44 grains of IMR 4895, but their cases have a little more room than the Lake City match brass has. My particular M1A liked 43.6 grains of IMR 4895 in the Federal cases better, and an even 43 grains in Lake City.

Winchester cases have even more room, and I use them for long range loads with the 175 grain SMK. I show 44.4 grains of IMR 4895 and 45.3 grains of Hodgdon Varget under that bullet as the last recorded loads. These are in a relatively tight Krieger barrel that replaced my original, so YMMV.

BHP9 · September 4, 2009, 09:58 AM

The current M118LR indeed uses the 175gr Sierra MK but it is loaded with 43.1 grains of RL15.

The original load had more powder but it was found to be TOO hot for the M14's used in Iraq so it was lowered to the current charge weight. The original load was published on Alliant's web site for about 2 months.

medalguy · September 4, 2009, 11:20 AM

For my M1A rifle I use 42 gr IMR 4895 under the Hornady 150 gr FMJBT bullet. The load gives me good accuracy without beating the rifle up too much (and my shoulder). Obviously this load is just for plinking but remember you only need a load hot enough to work the action. Anything more is hard on the op rod and unnecessary.

**Unclenick** · September 4, 2009, 03:56 PM

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

BHP9,

Alliant's site still boasts of RL15 being selected by the military for M118 LR (apparently it is also used in more recent lots of Federal GM match .308), but they don't say whether it is a canister grade or not? This discussion has the charge anywhere from 42.7 grains to 44.3 grains. There is also mention of the LC M118 LR cases having extra capacity, which would affect pressure, too, if accurate. I don't have any to weigh the water capacity of; I just have old M118 and M852 cases, which are no different from other LC 7.62x51 brass, capacity-wise. That thread does mention 42 grains of IMR4895 going into LC M852, for those interested in an alternative using 168 grain bullets.

It needs to be remembered that unlike commercial ammo, which just uses the pressure upper limit as a constraint, military ammo also checks a lower pressure limit to keep it useful in gas operated guns, and also has a velocity spec. A powder lot they buy has to have a practical charge that meets the velocity spec without exceeding either pressure limit, or it is rejected for the load being tested. That likely accounts for a good bit of lot-to-lot charge variation. I would knock any of the reported military loads down and work them up for that reason.

I notice Alliant used IMI brass in all their listed .308 RL15 loads. The IMI Match cases I bought awhile back are even heavier and have even less capacity than Lake City cases, so the maximums for other cases will be a little greater, I expect. I'm surprised they didn't list one for the 175 gr. SMK?

30Cal · September 5, 2009, 01:36 PM

M118 LR drawing C8597555 Rev. V

The drawing says 44grs (can't decipher what powder) and in the notes, it simply states that can be varied to meet velocity requirement.

plainsman456 · September 5, 2009, 10:12 PM

I have had good luck with imr 4064 powder,somewhere in the 42-48gr range.Good Luck

stracey.f00 · January 18, 2016, 01:24 PM

My starting loads were 35 gr of H4895 results were ok hit paper 4inch moa in horrible very windy weather. My second load up of 38.5 gr in H4895 using LC brass at 2.80 was alot better in same conditions, have 2 bullets hit same hole 3 others were 2 inch apart ... Winds are at 20mph, with temp at 15 degrees . going to work up more when I get home.

1stmar · January 18, 2016, 01:33 PM

42.5gr of 4064 very accurate in my scout m1a 168smk

cw308 · January 18, 2016, 02:11 PM

USMC Vet, l also like IMR 4064 41.5gr. Under a Sierra 168 gr.HPBT bullet OAL 2.800

**44 AMP** · January 21, 2016, 12:10 AM

My 1970s data for the M118 match round says the powder charge is 42gr of IMR 4895.

No idea what is being put in them, today.

Nitescout · January 21, 2016, 03:24 PM

In my 16" SA SOCOM, I use 46.5 H-380 behind 150 gr. fmj LC cases WLR and cci #34 primers.

41.0 IMR 4895 behind 150 gr, in LC brass, and 42.5 4895, in win com`l brass.

42.5 IMR 4064 behind 150 gr, fmj in LC brass...42.0 behind 165 Hornady SST, in LC cases

and 44.5 BL-C2 with the 168 Sierra in LC cases.

Have had no problems with function...

as a side, Springfield Armory says DON`T use reloads in the M1A!!!

**44 AMP** · January 22, 2016, 12:50 AM

Quote:

as a side, Springfield Armory says DON`T use reloads in the M1A!!!

EVERYBODY says don't use reloads in their gun. It's boilerplate.

The usual language is that reloads void the warranty or something like that.

Essentially, its legal language so the gunmaker is not responsible for you being an idiot.

August 10, 2009, 10:22 PM	#1
USMC Vet Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: S.E. New Hampshire Posts: 30	loads for M1A Recently purchased a new Springfield M1A Nat'l. match. It has been a lo-o-ong time since I have loaded for a military style semi auto, and I am seeking some sugestions for load data. Most of the local shops seem to carry a good supply of Hornady bullets, and would like to develop loads using the Hornady 150 gr.FMJBT and the Hornady 168 BTHP. This rifle has a 1/11 twist. The Hornady manual has a section devoted to the M1A, but many of the loads seem ultra-conservative. Thanks. USMC Vet

August 11, 2009, 12:08 AM	#2
Mark whiz Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Wabash, IN Posts: 227	I have to agree that Hornady's data does seem low most of the time. A standard accepted M1A load is 168gr bthps like Sierra matchkings over 41.5 to 42.5gr of IMR 4895 using mil-spec cases. Here is a link to Zediker's article on loading for the M1A - so it should give you about all the refreshing you might need: http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf __________________ "Every moving thing that liveth, I give unto you as meat" (Gen 9:3) Aim small.........miss small. Trust God..........but keep your powder dry!

August 11, 2009, 06:34 PM	#5
USMC Vet Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: S.E. New Hampshire Posts: 30	Response to M1A load suggestions Mark whiz, bfoosh006, 30Cal: Thanks to you for your quick response to my search for an M1A load. Thanks also for the zediker link. I'll check it out. USMC Vet

August 12, 2009, 11:12 AM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	M118 used the 173 grain FMJ BT (I still have some from the early 90's). M852 used the Sierra 168 grain MK. The new M118 LR uses the 175 grain Sierra MK. I don't recall any of their loads being listed with canister grade reloader's powders, but Jeff Bartlett has had all the surplus non-canister stuff from time to time. What powder and charge you use depends on case capacity. I recommend you get the CCI #34 primers for the gas gun. I ran Federal 150's for years, but had some trouble with velocity variance in some loads (Accurate 2520 ball powder, mainly) where deburring flashholes made quite a significant improvement in group size with those primers. Just this week I read the article Hardcase linked to in this thread, and it suggests I could have got the same result from running magnum primers all along (the #34 is made with a magnum level primer pellet). Federal 215M's are another to try, but they aren't military hard like the #34's, and unless I see a drawback to the #34's, the extra hardness as slamfire prevention insurance isn't a bad idea. Just be sure you get them seated 0.003"-0.005" below flush with the face of the case head. Lacking that proper seating depth is what causes most slamfires, and not softness of the primer cup. If you use Federal cases, their 168 grain GM load runs up closer to the equivalent of 44 grains of IMR 4895, but their cases have a little more room than the Lake City match brass has. My particular M1A liked 43.6 grains of IMR 4895 in the Federal cases better, and an even 43 grains in Lake City. Winchester cases have even more room, and I use them for long range loads with the 175 grain SMK. I show 44.4 grains of IMR 4895 and 45.3 grains of Hodgdon Varget under that bullet as the last recorded loads. These are in a relatively tight Krieger barrel that replaced my original, so YMMV. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; August 12, 2009 at 11:20 AM.

September 4, 2009, 09:58 AM	#8
BHP9 Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Posts: 76	The current M118LR indeed uses the 175gr Sierra MK but it is loaded with 43.1 grains of RL15. The original load had more powder but it was found to be TOO hot for the M14's used in Iraq so it was lowered to the current charge weight. The original load was published on Alliant's web site for about 2 months. __________________ Proud member of the WTFDTSG Club.

August 11, 2009, 12:12 AM	#3
bfoosh006 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 1,089	Read the first two articles at this link, (actually save them to your computer)...http://www.zediker.com/downloads/m14.html...and at the risk of being improper to the rules here...this website...http://www.m14tfl.com..is dedicated to the M14 platform, you'll have to join ...but its worth it.

August 11, 2009, 04:15 PM	#4
30Cal Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2002 Posts: 1,264	I shoot 41.5gr IMR4895 under the Sierra/Nosler 168gr with a LC case and WLR or Rem primer @ 2.81". Same for the 150/155gr match bullets and also for the 125gr Speer TNT (2.75") which is a superb bullet for 200yds and less (cheap, match-grade accurate, very low recoil). All of those shoot about a minute or better from my Supermatch w/ 1:12" Kreiger.

August 12, 2009, 10:51 AM	#6
Longdayjake Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2009 Posts: 619	I have always just looked up the load for the m118 or the other that shoots the 168 grain. Both have been great from my m1a loaded.

September 4, 2009, 11:20 AM	#9
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	For my M1A rifle I use 42 gr IMR 4895 under the Hornady 150 gr FMJBT bullet. The load gives me good accuracy without beating the rifle up too much (and my shoulder). Obviously this load is just for plinking but remember you only need a load hot enough to work the action. Anything more is hard on the op rod and unnecessary.

September 4, 2009, 03:56 PM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information. BHP9, Alliant's site still boasts of RL15 being selected by the military for M118 LR (apparently it is also used in more recent lots of Federal GM match .308), but they don't say whether it is a canister grade or not? This discussion has the charge anywhere from 42.7 grains to 44.3 grains. There is also mention of the LC M118 LR cases having extra capacity, which would affect pressure, too, if accurate. I don't have any to weigh the water capacity of; I just have old M118 and M852 cases, which are no different from other LC 7.62x51 brass, capacity-wise. That thread does mention 42 grains of IMR4895 going into LC M852, for those interested in an alternative using 168 grain bullets. It needs to be remembered that unlike commercial ammo, which just uses the pressure upper limit as a constraint, military ammo also checks a lower pressure limit to keep it useful in gas operated guns, and also has a velocity spec. A powder lot they buy has to have a practical charge that meets the velocity spec without exceeding either pressure limit, or it is rejected for the load being tested. That likely accounts for a good bit of lot-to-lot charge variation. I would knock any of the reported military loads down and work them up for that reason. I notice Alliant used IMI brass in all their listed .308 RL15 loads. The IMI Match cases I bought awhile back are even heavier and have even less capacity than Lake City cases, so the maximums for other cases will be a little greater, I expect. I'm surprised they didn't list one for the 175 gr. SMK? __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; September 4, 2009 at 04:20 PM.

September 5, 2009, 01:36 PM	#11
30Cal Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2002 Posts: 1,264	M118 LR drawing C8597555 Rev. V The drawing says 44grs (can't decipher what powder) and in the notes, it simply states that can be varied to meet velocity requirement.

September 5, 2009, 10:12 PM	#12
plainsman456 Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2008 Posts: 260	I have had good luck with imr 4064 powder,somewhere in the 42-48gr range.Good Luck

January 18, 2016, 01:24 PM	#13
stracey.f00 Junior Member Join Date: January 18, 2016 Posts: 1	My starting loads were 35 gr of H4895 results were ok hit paper 4inch moa in horrible very windy weather. My second load up of 38.5 gr in H4895 using LC brass at 2.80 was alot better in same conditions, have 2 bullets hit same hole 3 others were 2 inch apart ... Winds are at 20mph, with temp at 15 degrees . going to work up more when I get home.

January 18, 2016, 01:33 PM	#14
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	42.5gr of 4064 very accurate in my scout m1a 168smk Last edited by 1stmar; January 18, 2016 at 03:10 PM.

January 18, 2016, 02:11 PM	#15
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	USMC Vet, l also like IMR 4064 41.5gr. Under a Sierra 168 gr.HPBT bullet OAL 2.800

January 21, 2016, 12:10 AM	#16
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,846	My 1970s data for the M118 match round says the powder charge is 42gr of IMR 4895. No idea what is being put in them, today. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 21, 2016, 03:24 PM	#17
Nitescout Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2015 Location: central kansas Posts: 119	In my 16" SA SOCOM, I use 46.5 H-380 behind 150 gr. fmj LC cases WLR and cci #34 primers. 41.0 IMR 4895 behind 150 gr, in LC brass, and 42.5 4895, in win com`l brass. 42.5 IMR 4064 behind 150 gr, fmj in LC brass...42.0 behind 165 Hornady SST, in LC cases and 44.5 BL-C2 with the 168 Sierra in LC cases. Have had no problems with function... as a side, Springfield Armory says DON`T use reloads in the M1A!!!