AR-15 buffer tubeless upper and side charging, is it possible?

jason41987 · July 6, 2012, 10:14 AM

hey everyone.. i was wondering if its at all possible with any amount of after market modifications?.. for side-charging, the LAR upper seems to do the trick, so i would just find an AR-15 upper without forward assist to modify into a side charger with a carrier that lacked the the cuts for the forward assist and put that together myself...

so about the removal of a buffer tube, obviously, the AR-15s carrier is very long, is there a particular reason for this? could the back end of the carrier not be removed and the remainting carrier be bored on the sides for the installation of two recoil springs (so to not get in the way of the hammer).. or perhaps a new one machined that has a shorter gap for the hammer?

another option ive seen on an AR-15 pistol that was successful, is they had a long-stroke gas piston installed with the recoil spring installed over the piston rod itself, exactly like the one used on the sig-556, so i KNOW its possible to remove the buffer tube, and it is in fact the long-stroke system that makes the AK, SIG, and M14s as bullet proof reliable as they are...

so?.. any ideas or suggestions?

jason41987 · July 6, 2012, 02:08 PM

hmm, i was just thinking and ive come up with another idea for the reposition of a recoil spring... would it be possible to reuse the "hole" in the back of the upper receiver within the rail, the part of which the key for the direct impingement travels along to contain the recoil spring?

perhaps use a block that could fit where the head of the charging handle used to be, and be held in place with some sort of a detent and design a new key that could hold the spring and a telescoping guide rod as well...

what i would do for the piece that replaced the charging handle head, is put a spring loaded button on each side the user could simply squeeze together to release from a ledge machined into the receiver to remove the new guide rod and spring assembly which would allow me to remove the rear section of the carrier, install the side charging handle, and still use my choice of gas system (direct impinged, short recoil, or long recoil...

hmm... i think this what id like to try first, to see how it works, see where the wear and tear will rear its head

Crosshair · July 6, 2012, 08:23 PM

I've often wondered why someone doesn't just make a DI version of the AR-18 bolt carrier. It would work perfectly for what you want.

jason41987 · July 7, 2012, 01:28 AM

i had another idea, but it seems the rock river PDS beat me to it.. where the head of the cocking handle rests, put the guide rock and recoil spring assemble there, behind the key, youd have to fabricate a new key and the back side of the guide rod assembly, but it would eliminate bolt tilt and allow you to use any gas system you wanted so long as you had another means of charging it (such as side charging handle)

jason41987 · July 7, 2012, 03:07 AM

i could hand carve the section that would go where the head of the original charging handle would be... fabricate a telescoping captive recoil spring/guide rod assembly, and fabricate a new key to for the guide rod assembly as well...

im trying to determine what i should do with the charging handle though, whether it should be left side, right side, reciprocating or not, but it will need to have some way as operating as a forward assist... if it could be folding, non reciprocating, and still somehow be used as a forward assist that would be perfect, but im not sure how one would do that

rbernie · July 7, 2012, 08:37 AM

I thought that Olympic already did this, in the form of the OA93?

jason41987 · July 7, 2012, 09:46 AM

OA93 looks like a completely custom upper that puts the charging handle above the action.. not sure how well that would work.. anyway, my charging handle will probably be mounted to the bolt carrier on the right side... i thought about putting the charging handle on the left, but it would be a pain in the backside (literally) when on a sling and i dont want to go with a folding charging handle because then it wouldnt work so well as a forward assist device and id like it to..

if anyone has a good idea for setting up a non reciprocating, folding charging handle that could still be used as a forward assist, id be interested to learn more about it... but eeh.. its an AR-15, you only have to rack it once for the day, so a right side bolt will be just fine

July 6, 2012, 10:14 AM	#1
jason41987 Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2012 Posts: 479	AR-15 buffer tubeless upper and side charging, is it possible? hey everyone.. i was wondering if its at all possible with any amount of after market modifications?.. for side-charging, the LAR upper seems to do the trick, so i would just find an AR-15 upper without forward assist to modify into a side charger with a carrier that lacked the the cuts for the forward assist and put that together myself... so about the removal of a buffer tube, obviously, the AR-15s carrier is very long, is there a particular reason for this? could the back end of the carrier not be removed and the remainting carrier be bored on the sides for the installation of two recoil springs (so to not get in the way of the hammer).. or perhaps a new one machined that has a shorter gap for the hammer? another option ive seen on an AR-15 pistol that was successful, is they had a long-stroke gas piston installed with the recoil spring installed over the piston rod itself, exactly like the one used on the sig-556, so i KNOW its possible to remove the buffer tube, and it is in fact the long-stroke system that makes the AK, SIG, and M14s as bullet proof reliable as they are... so?.. any ideas or suggestions?

July 6, 2012, 08:23 PM	#3
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	I've often wondered why someone doesn't just make a DI version of the AR-18 bolt carrier. It would work perfectly for what you want. __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

July 7, 2012, 08:37 AM	#6
rbernie Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2004 Location: Plain Ol', TX Posts: 713	I thought that Olympic already did this, in the form of the OA93? __________________ -A conclusion is not a destination, it's simply a convenient place to stop thinking.- -Reading a thing doesn't automatically make it so; repeating it doesn't necessarily make it any truer.- -Every Texan should be a member of the Texas State Rifle Association.

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July 6, 2012, 02:08 PM	#2
jason41987 Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2012 Posts: 479	hmm, i was just thinking and ive come up with another idea for the reposition of a recoil spring... would it be possible to reuse the "hole" in the back of the upper receiver within the rail, the part of which the key for the direct impingement travels along to contain the recoil spring? perhaps use a block that could fit where the head of the charging handle used to be, and be held in place with some sort of a detent and design a new key that could hold the spring and a telescoping guide rod as well... what i would do for the piece that replaced the charging handle head, is put a spring loaded button on each side the user could simply squeeze together to release from a ledge machined into the receiver to remove the new guide rod and spring assembly which would allow me to remove the rear section of the carrier, install the side charging handle, and still use my choice of gas system (direct impinged, short recoil, or long recoil... hmm... i think this what id like to try first, to see how it works, see where the wear and tear will rear its head

July 7, 2012, 01:28 AM	#4
jason41987 Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2012 Posts: 479	i had another idea, but it seems the rock river PDS beat me to it.. where the head of the cocking handle rests, put the guide rock and recoil spring assemble there, behind the key, youd have to fabricate a new key and the back side of the guide rod assembly, but it would eliminate bolt tilt and allow you to use any gas system you wanted so long as you had another means of charging it (such as side charging handle)

July 7, 2012, 03:07 AM	#5
jason41987 Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2012 Posts: 479	i could hand carve the section that would go where the head of the original charging handle would be... fabricate a telescoping captive recoil spring/guide rod assembly, and fabricate a new key to for the guide rod assembly as well... im trying to determine what i should do with the charging handle though, whether it should be left side, right side, reciprocating or not, but it will need to have some way as operating as a forward assist... if it could be folding, non reciprocating, and still somehow be used as a forward assist that would be perfect, but im not sure how one would do that

July 7, 2012, 09:46 AM	#7
jason41987 Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2012 Posts: 479	OA93 looks like a completely custom upper that puts the charging handle above the action.. not sure how well that would work.. anyway, my charging handle will probably be mounted to the bolt carrier on the right side... i thought about putting the charging handle on the left, but it would be a pain in the backside (literally) when on a sling and i dont want to go with a folding charging handle because then it wouldnt work so well as a forward assist device and id like it to.. if anyone has a good idea for setting up a non reciprocating, folding charging handle that could still be used as a forward assist, id be interested to learn more about it... but eeh.. its an AR-15, you only have to rack it once for the day, so a right side bolt will be just fine